Agents of SHIELD - Season 2 Discussion Threads. (Spoilers Likely)

[Enterprise1701]

So at the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D.

Fury, Hill, Cho, Selvig, and what look to be many ex-S.H.I.E.L.D. agents have become support staff for the Avengers at the new Avengers facility. I wonder if this means that the Avengers have more directly superseded S.H.I.E.L.D. And is Fury's faked death out of the bag now? It certainly would have enabled the requisition of the helicarrier to Sokovia.

And what does it mean for the show's S.H.I.E.L.D. factions?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but at the beginning of Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers' assembly time

the Avengers have been back together for some time before the mission to take down Strucker's division in Sokovia.

But until last week's episode "The Dirty Half Dozen", there had been no mention whatsoever of current Avengers activity during season 2. Have I missed something? Or am I correct in thinking that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. looks to be screwing up movie crossover sequencing again?

But ultimately, I acknowledge that I must reserve judgement until season 2 is finished. Maybe there could be time between Coulson's call to Hill and the opening scene of Age of Ultron, but it wouldn't make sense to me. Alternatively, the Avengers could have been quietly taking down HYDRA bases. But that would make even less sense. Superheroes can't escape the public eye, let alone S.H.I.E.L.D.'s eye.

 

[ATimson]

Spoiler: Age of Ultron

"...and the world will be changed forever."

Sorry, but I'm just not seeing how the movie will have the consequences that Raina promised. What am I missing?

Spoiler: AoU

Consider: When Wanda read Ultron's thoughts while he was downloading into the proto-Vision, she saw a, err, vision of Ultron's planned apocalypse. So maybe Raina, like Wanda, saw what would have happened if the Avengers hadn't stopped Ultron.

Possible, but if that's the intent I'd consider that bad writing. For someone who only watches the show, you basically cut from "bad things are happening!" to "or not", like a cheesy movie/radio serial cliffhanger where everybody walked out of the house five minutes before it exploded.

I think that line only works dramatically if there are consequences that appear on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. directly. Tomorrow, given the urgency.

 

[Sci]

So at the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D.

Fury, Hill, Cho, Selvig, and what look to be many ex-S.H.I.E.L.D. agents have become support staff for the Avengers at the new Avengers facility. I wonder if this means that the Avengers have more directly superseded S.H.I.E.L.D. And is Fury's faked death out of the bag now? It certainly would have enabled the requisition of the helicarrier to Sokovia.

And what does it mean for the show's S.H.I.E.L.D. factions?

Spoiler

To my mind, it means that there are now three factions operating in the wake of the collapse of the legitimate SHIELD -- there's Coulson's illegal cabal, operating under the name of SHIELD and with a goal of eventually becoming a legitimate organization again; there's Gonzalez's cabal, also operating under the name SHIELD, which has maintained control of an aircraft carrier since SHIELD fell and has more or less seized control of Coulson's cabal, but which may yet be either overthrown or re-integrated with Coulson's cabal; and then there's the organization that has sprouted up out of Stark Industries to support the Avengers, which seems to be staffed primarily by former SHIELD agents -- I call it I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD.

Ultimately, the question is, what will be the relationship between Coulson-SHIELD and I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD? We know that Coulson has been feeding I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD info; will Coulson-SHIELD merge with I Can't Believe It's Not SHIELD?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but at the beginning of Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers' assembly time

the Avengers have been back together for some time before the mission to take down Strucker's division in Sokovia.

But until last week's episode "The Dirty Half Dozen", there had been no mention whatsoever of current Avengers activity during season 2.

Yeah. There's also been no mention of what President Ellis has been up to, or whether the Cavs are in the playoffs. Just because something isn't mentioned on a show that is focusing on the exploits of a particular underground conspiracy of vigilantes, doesn't mean it's not happening somewhere else in the MCU.

At the end of the day, you just have to accept that there's a certain level of suspension of disbelief going on. The TV show will never be allowed to overtly spoil what the movies want to reveal on their own terms, only tease, and they'll never be allowed to go into detail.

But ultimately, I acknowledge that I must reserve judgement until season 2 is finished. Maybe there could be time between Coulson's call to Hill and the opening scene of Age of Ultron, but it wouldn't make sense to me. Alternatively, the Avengers could have been quietly taking down HYDRA bases. But that would make even less sense. Superheroes can't escape the public eye, let alone S.H.I.E.L.D.'s eye.

Well, first off, I don't see why there's any reason to think Coulson-SHIELD would have anywhere near the resources for surveillance and intelligence-gathering that the legitimate SHIELD had before it was dissolved.

But secondly -- again, what's the problem with just assuming that the Avengers reunited shortly after The Winter Soldier and have been having highly-publicized battles with Hydra and other superheroes, while Coulson-SHIELD has been having its own under-the-radar conflicts with the Reinhardt branch of Hydra? The world is big, and Coulson-SHIELD is fairly small. No reason these things have to be overtly referenced for them to be consistent.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Stark was shown drawing up plans to convert Stark Tower into Avengers Tower at the end of the first movie and by CA:TWS we see that the change has already been made. Given this, I see no reason to assume that the Avengers weren't dealing with threats on their own ever since the first movie ended.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Would it be easier to do Medusa's hair with claymation than cgi?

It would definitely be cooler.

 

[Marsden]

Yeah. There's also been no mention of what President Ellis has been up to, or whether the Cavs are in the playoffs. Just because something isn't mentioned on a show that is focusing on the exploits of a particular underground conspiracy of vigilantes, doesn't mean it's not happening somewhere else in the MCU.

At the end of the day, you just have to accept that there's a certain level of suspension of disbelief going on. The TV show will never be allowed to overtly spoil what the movies want to reveal on their own terms, only tease, and they'll never be allowed to go into detail.

I agree and I'd like to add that from day one of AoS I liked it but also acknowleged that it's like the minor leagues for a major league baseball team. Sometimes your favorite player from the bigs stops by when they are recovering from an injury but they are their own team. AoS exists in the MCU, but the movies are the main story and AoS and Agent Carter and others are filling in stories that would never be a movie. I have no problem with that, as it gives us more stories to watch and enjoy and it is more like the comics in a way as not everyone would buy every single Marvel comic but they are all "happening" in the same "universe".

 

[Christopher]

So at the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D.

Fury, Hill, Cho, Selvig, and what look to be many ex-S.H.I.E.L.D. agents have become support staff for the Avengers at the new Avengers facility. I wonder if this means that the Avengers have more directly superseded S.H.I.E.L.D. And is Fury's faked death out of the bag now? It certainly would have enabled the requisition of the helicarrier to Sokovia.

And what does it mean for the show's S.H.I.E.L.D. factions?

Ooh, I would love it if Claudia Kim showed up on AoS as Helen Cho. I just recently watched Netflix's Marco Polo and I loved her as Khutulun, so it was neat to see her again so soon.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but at the beginning of Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers' assembly time

the Avengers have been back together for some time before the mission to take down Strucker's division in Sokovia.

But until last week's episode "The Dirty Half Dozen", there had been no mention whatsoever of current Avengers activity during season 2. Have I missed something? Or am I correct in thinking that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. looks to be screwing up movie crossover sequencing again?

Like Sci said, it's not that they haven't been in action, it's just that it hasn't come up on the show. They didn't mention the Avengers' hunt for Loki's sceptre and their fight against HYDRA because they figured the Avengers had that part of it well in hand, and Coulson's team had their own concerns to worry about.

Besides, the coordination between different MCU productions has never been perfect. There's the pretense of a shared universe, but sometimes the individual parts don't mesh together well. Tony's arc from the end of IM3 to the start of AoU is unclear. Daredevil mentions the Battle of New York, but Avengers Tower is conspicuously missing from the Midtown skyline. So the continuity isn't perfect. But then, it was never perfect in the comics either, so that's getting it right, in a way.

Alternatively, the Avengers could have been quietly taking down HYDRA bases. But that would make even less sense. Superheroes can't escape the public eye, let alone S.H.I.E.L.D.'s eye.

Other way around. Coulson's team have been operating in secret, dealing with other secret matters and groups, so they're the ones who are staying out of matters in the public eye. Sure, they don't talk about the Avengers' high-profile HYDRA raids, but they don't talk about the World Series or who's winning on Dancing With the Stars either. They're busy with their own shadow world.

 

[Star Wolf]

So at the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers and S.H.I.E.L.D.

Fury, Hill, Cho, Selvig, and what look to be many ex-S.H.I.E.L.D. agents have become support staff for the Avengers at the new Avengers facility. I wonder if this means that the Avengers have more directly superseded S.H.I.E.L.D. And is Fury's faked death out of the bag now? It certainly would have enabled the requisition of the helicarrier to Sokovia.

And what does it mean for the show's S.H.I.E.L.D. factions?

Ooh, I would love it if Claudia Kim showed up on AoS as Helen Cho. I just recently watched Netflix's Marco Polo and I loved her as Khutulun, so it was neat to see her again so soon.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but at the beginning of Age of Ultron,

Spoiler: Avengers' assembly time

the Avengers have been back together for some time before the mission to take down Strucker's division in Sokovia.

But until last week's episode "The Dirty Half Dozen", there had been no mention whatsoever of current Avengers activity during season 2. Have I missed something? Or am I correct in thinking that Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. looks to be screwing up movie crossover sequencing again?

Like Sci said, it's not that they haven't been in action, it's just that it hasn't come up on the show. They didn't mention the Avengers' hunt for Loki's sceptre and their fight against HYDRA because they figured the Avengers had that part of it well in hand, and Coulson's team had their own concerns to worry about.

Besides, the coordination between different MCU productions has never been perfect. There's the pretense of a shared universe, but sometimes the individual parts don't mesh together well. Tony's arc from the end of IM3 to the start of AoU is unclear. Daredevil mentions the Battle of New York, but Avengers Tower is conspicuously missing from the Midtown skyline. So the continuity isn't perfect. But then, it was never perfect in the comics either, so that's getting it right, in a way.

Alternatively, the Avengers could have been quietly taking down HYDRA bases. But that would make even less sense. Superheroes can't escape the public eye, let alone S.H.I.E.L.D.'s eye.

Other way around. Coulson's team have been operating in secret, dealing with other secret matters and groups, so they're the ones who are staying out of matters in the public eye. Sure, they don't talk about the Avengers' high-profile HYDRA raids, but they don't talk about the World Series or who's winning on Dancing With the Stars either. They're busy with their own shadow world.

But of course for the show when Coulson has a list of Hydra leaders which his team personally took down leading to the final two as we head into the AoU. The fact that someone else out there was taking down bases Howling Commando style in the press while national governments were hunting them down as potential terrorist should have come up.

The big name movie director ignoring what went on TV and Iron Man III was exactly the sort of thing which wasn't supposed to happen in the grander MCU. The TV production team has the hours to make sense of the snub. I don't see how we get from Iron Man III to AoU. Or will ever get what happened

 

[Christopher]

No shared universe ever gets it perfect. The first priority is making your own movie or series work; coordination with the other stuff is a secondary concern, as it rightly should be. Sure, it'd be nice if they got it perfect, but if something has to give, better it be the continuity between works than the needs of your own work.

Really, it's remarkable that Marvel Studios manages to maintain as much continuity among their various productions as they do. Even doing it imperfectly is an extraordinary accomplishment.

 

[Forbin]

Welp, in case tonight's finale is indeed a sort of sequel to the movie, I'll be recording it and watching it after I see the movie. And since I won't see the movie until it's on Blu-Ray, I'll be sitting out this thread until such time, to avoid spoilers. See y'all later.

 

[Christopher]

^Tonight is the episode before the finale. The 2-part finale will air back-to-back next week.

(Oh, wait, did you not read that? Have you already left the thread? If so, then who am I talking to? Is this thing on?)

 

[bbjeg]

^He'll be back after the next "Next Time on Agents of Shield".

 

[Campe]

Spoiler: AoU/AoS connection [POTENTIAL SHIELD SPOILERS TOO]

The Mystery of the Hellicarrier

Kevin Feige tells /Film that the show will fill in how Nick Fury managed to find a working Helicarrier to use, during the climax of Age of Ultron:
Now, when Nick Fury goes away and comes back with a Helicarrier, that seems like a big chunk of off screen story. Is that something we might see referenced on SHIELD?

Feige: I think it’s fair to say you could fill in some of those blanks in the coming weeks on Tuesday at 9.

 

[bbjeg]

^Plugged it like the best of them.

 

[DEWLine]

Hoping that they finally give "64" a name.

 

[kitik]

regarding the very end of Age of Ultron

Spoiler: timeframe at the end of AOU

After the flight of Sokovia, we see the scene at the new Avengers base. It's safe to assume that scene isn't 6 hours later or something like that. It must be days later, and is probably more like a week (or weeks) later. At least that's how it feels now that I'm thinking about it. So that scene could very well have happened after the AOS season finale. (Depending on how the show and time flows on the final 3 episodes of AOS of course.)

 

[Turtletrekker]

^

Spoiler: Also...

Also, Clint's son was born before the end scene.

 

[Kemaiku]

Yeah that puts it about a month or two later?

 

[Forbin]

^Tonight is the episode before the finale. The 2-part finale will air back-to-back next week.

(Oh, wait, did you not read that? Have you already left the thread? If so, then who am I talking to? Is this thing on?)

Oh! I thought that was this week. Never mind.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Exactly what I suggested...Coulson as director, answering to the board.

With the big deal that they made about the helicarrier, I think it's a safe bet that Gonzales's boat isn't one.