Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

[Alidar Jarok]

^ For what it's worth, Ward was wearing gloves this time when handling the staff. I certainly think he'll consider using it again, but I also think that the staff brings back unpleasant memories of a time long ago that he thinks John Garrett saved him from.

I don't understand your basis for that.

Garrett's exact quote in this episode was "you've got a gift." There was a similar line in The Magical Place about her ability to persuade people. Sure, none of them specifically described it as superhuman, but referring to it as a gift the way Garrett did certainly at least suggested the possibility. I can certainly be wrong, of course, but I'm not grabbing it out of thin air.

 

[davejames]

Out of curiosity I decided to check out the last couple episodes (after giving up on the show early on), and I have to say so far I'm liking this new direction a whole lot more. The dismantling of SHIELD and the threat from Hydra has given the show a much needed sense of urgency and unpredictability, and characters like Ward have suddenly become a lot more interesting (and I admire that they didn't wimp out on making him an actual villain).

That said, I do wish they would take a cue from Winter Soldier and up the sophistication of the writing a little more. Paxton's character is so cartoonishly evil he belongs in an episode of Chuck, and the nonstop, jokey dialogue makes it kinda hard to take anything all that seriously.

There's nothing wrong with having some lighter moments, but I still think the show would work a lot better (and draw in more viewers) if it just took itself a little more seriously.

 

[Christopher]

Garrett's exact quote in this episode was "you've got a gift." There was a similar line in The Magical Place about her ability to persuade people. Sure, none of them specifically described it as superhuman, but referring to it as a gift the way Garrett did certainly at least suggested the possibility. I can certainly be wrong, of course, but I'm not grabbing it out of thin air.

Well, first off, we've already had a female character in this show who had paranormal powers of persuasion, namely Lorelei. Would they really want to repeat themelves that way?

And if Raina did have paranormal persuasive abilities like Lorelei, or like Maxwell Lord or Eden from Heroes, then wouldn't she just have been able to talk her way out of that prison?

Just because someone is exceptionally good at something, that doesn't make it a superpower. Lots of people are called "gifted" because of abilities that are simply at the high end of normal human potential, like a gifted student or a gifted athlete. For instance, Tony Stark is a gifted inventor, an exceptional genius, but that's not a superhuman ability, just a peak-human ability. Same for Hawkeye's aim or Black Widow's or May's combat skills.

Not to mention that the show has made it clear that paranormal abilities are extremely rare in the MCU, and thus the odds of any given person having them are extremely low. So unless Raina is shown doing something that a very skilled human could not do, it is unlikely that she has any paranormal ability. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes in The Hound of the Baskervilles, we are bound to exhaust all natural hypotheses before falling back upon a supernatural one.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Well, I'm pleased so far with how they're handling Ward, and convinced that he's the real deal until they should drop some clue to the contrary.

I particularly like how they're acknowledging in-show that Ward's stiff, square-jaw routine was a deliberate act on the character's part. He was trying to be the most boring character on the show...that redeems him somewhat as a character (and I don't mean morally, for you hair-triggers out there).

They definitely made clear, however, that his loyalty is and always has been to Garrett. There's no indication that he cares about Hydra as an independent entity/greater cause.

Nor does Garrett, for that matter. I'm definitely getting the vibe from the last couple of episodes that Garrett is an opportunist first and a card-carrying Hydra agent second. He had his own little side operation going on, and he's taking advantage of the current chaos--and the outing of Hydra assets--to continue pursuing his own agenda. Hydra having been a conspiracy within SHIELD, and their main plan having been defeated, there doesn't seem to be a central Hydra authority calling the shots in the wake of TWS any more than there's a central SHIELD authority.

I'd like to think that they're setting up the base as a recurring location (at least temporarily answering the question of how they'll fuel and maintain the Bus), but Ward knowing about it does make that problematic....

 

[Kirby]

So if there is any question about renewal, we're going to start sending in lanyards to ABC in protest, right?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Well, first off, we've already had a female character in this show who had paranormal powers of persuasion, namely Lorelei. Would they really want to repeat themelves that way?

Dunno. We'll have to wait and see. They did invent Raina before they decided to use Lorelei, though, I'd imagine.

 

[bbjeg]

I liked that the group was mobile and didn't have a set HQ but Providence, the base our team reached during the last episode, feels like it will be their home location.

 

[Christopher]

Hydra having been a conspiracy within SHIELD, and their main plan having been defeated, there doesn't seem to be a central Hydra authority calling the shots in the wake of TWS any more than there's a central SHIELD authority.

Except the post-credits scene in TWS confirms that HYDRA does have a larger existence than just the branch of it that was inside SHIELD, and it definitely has a guy in charge.

I liked that the group was mobile and didn't have a set HQ but Providence, the base our team reached during the last episode, feels like it will be their home location.

The only way that will happen is if the team either wins Ward back to their side in the very near future -- which would be a huge copout -- or exposes and captures him before he can report their location back to Garrett. Although it seems unlikely to me that he wouldn't have already given Garrett their location, since he was still with Garrett when Skye contacted him.

 

[Reverend]

Well, first off, we've already had a female character in this show who had paranormal powers of persuasion, namely Lorelei. Would they really want to repeat themelves that way?

Dunno. We'll have to wait and see. They did invent Raina before they decided to use Lorelei, though, I'd imagine.

It'd be doubly redundant if it turns out that Skye's 084'ness includes the power to make people like and protect her, as some fan have speculated.

The interesting possibility exists that they might be thinking about setting up a take on Spider-Woman at some point and is not a passive ability to persuade and attract the opposite sex one of Jessica Drew's hallmarks?

Personally I like the "Ms. Captain Marvel" idea better, but this is also a strong candidate. I mean from Marvel's POV, if they can't do Spider-Man, may as well do Spider-Woman instead, no?

Or maybe Raina's secret past is she's Jessica Drew? So many possibilities...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Hydra having been a conspiracy within SHIELD, and their main plan having been defeated, there doesn't seem to be a central Hydra authority calling the shots in the wake of TWS any more than there's a central SHIELD authority.

Except the post-credits scene in TWS confirms that HYDRA does have a larger existence than just the branch of it that was inside SHIELD, and it definitely has a guy in charge.

I'm not sure the guy in the post-credits scene was necessarily in charge or necessarily HYDRA anymore (although he probably was at one point). The quote was that SHIELD and HYDRA are "two sides of the same coin that no longer hold any currency." That suggests he's no longer concerned with either.

 

[The Old Mixer]

^This, thank you. In any case, he doesn't seem to be calling Garrett's shots. Garrett is calling Garrett's shots.

Also, is Hydra supposed to be all caps? I thought it was a metaphor, not an acronym.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

^This, thank you. In any case, he doesn't seem to be calling Garrett's shots. Garrett is calling Garrett's shots.

Don't get me wrong. I do think Garrett answers to people (at least in theory). I just don't think they necessarily control him. And, at least as far as this project is concerned, I agree that he is calling the shots.

Also, is Hydra supposed to be all caps?

Yes.

I thought it was a metaphor, not an acronym.

That is correct as well.

Seriously. There is no good reason it is in all caps, but Marvel has always had it in all caps anyway.

 

[The Old Mixer]

IT'S HARD TO TELL IN COMIC BOOKS, BECAUSE EVERYBODY SPEAKS IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME, WITH OCCASIONAL BOLD FOR EMPHASIS!

 

[shivkala]

Out of curiosity I decided to check out the last couple episodes (after giving up on the show early on), and I have to say so far I'm liking this new direction a whole lot more. The dismantling of SHIELD and the threat from Hydra has given the show a much needed sense of urgency and unpredictability, and characters like Ward have suddenly become a lot more interesting (and I admire that they didn't wimp out on making him an actual villain).

That said, I do wish they would take a cue from Winter Soldier and up the sophistication of the writing a little more. Paxton's character is so cartoonishly evil he belongs in an episode of Chuck, and the nonstop, jokey dialogue makes it kinda hard to take anything all that seriously.

There's nothing wrong with having some lighter moments, but I still think the show would work a lot better (and draw in more viewers) if it just took itself a little more seriously.

It's funny you say that. Given the tone of the show, I kept expecting the ground to give away under Coulson and the team when he was standing there talking about how things have weight. It would not have surprised me at all if they had gone for that gag. In fact, I was a little disappointed they didn't.

And, yes, Garrett is only missing a mustache he can twirl to complete his heel-turn into a cartoonish villain.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I don't think he's quite cartoonish. He's an amoral sociopathic killer who likes making wise-cracking jokes, but he isn't the kind to have evil grand schemes and delusional ideologies. Instead, he's fairly down to earth. He's basically just a mercenary more than anything else.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Out of curiosity I decided to check out the last couple episodes (after giving up on the show early on), and I have to say so far I'm liking this new direction a whole lot more. The dismantling of SHIELD and the threat from Hydra has given the show a much needed sense of urgency and unpredictability, and characters like Ward have suddenly become a lot more interesting (and I admire that they didn't wimp out on making him an actual villain).

That said, I do wish they would take a cue from Winter Soldier and up the sophistication of the writing a little more. Paxton's character is so cartoonishly evil he belongs in an episode of Chuck, and the nonstop, jokey dialogue makes it kinda hard to take anything all that seriously.

There's nothing wrong with having some lighter moments, but I still think the show would work a lot better (and draw in more viewers) if it just took itself a little more seriously.

It's funny you say that. Given the tone of the show, I kept expecting the ground to give away under Coulson and the team when he was standing there talking about how things have weight. It would not have surprised me at all if they had gone for that gag. In fact, I was a little disappointed they didn't.

And, yes, Garrett is only missing a mustache he can twirl to complete his heel-turn into a cartoonish villain.

I don't think he's quite cartoonish. He's an amoral sociopathic killer who likes making wise-cracking jokes, but he isn't the kind to have evil grand schemes and delusional ideologies. Instead, he's fairly down to earth. He's basically just a mercenary more than anything else.

Like he said, Garrett is just following the one in power. Not sure when/how he got this way.

i'm guessing there's a lot of SHIELD politics that burned out any idealism he had (and had connected him to Coulson in th e beginning).

He's smart enough to play the game (with SHIELD and HYDRA) so he's not operating outside of the parameters given him, but using the freedom given to help himself

Well, first off, we've already had a female character in this show who had paranormal powers of persuasion, namely Lorelei. Would they really want to repeat themelves that way?

Dunno. We'll have to wait and see. They did invent Raina before they decided to use Lorelei, though, I'd imagine.

It'd be doubly redundant if it turns out that Skye's 084'ness includes the power to make people like and protect her, as some fan have speculated.

The interesting possibility exists that they might be thinking about setting up a take on Spider-Woman at some point and is not a passive ability to persuade and attract the opposite sex one of Jessica Drew's hallmarks?

Personally I like the "Ms. Captain Marvel" idea better, but this is also a strong candidate. I mean from Marvel's POV, if they can't do Spider-Man, may as well do Spider-Woman instead, no?

Or maybe Raina's secret past is she's Jessica Drew? So many possibilities...

I think it would be logical that Skye is Jessica Drew only if her mother's name is Nancy.

 

[Christopher]

Apparently HYDRA is written as if it were an acronym even though it isn't, just like THRUSH from The Man from UNCLE, the inspiration for Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD. (THRUSH was given a meaning in some tie-in novels, but never in the show.) Or like CONTROL and KAOS in Get Smart. It's just spy-show tradition for the good and bad organizations to have acronymic names even if they're fake acronyms.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Maybe they were thinking this secretly when they first proposed it:

"Hitler, You Die, Rest (of us) Alive!"

 

[Christopher]

Well, presumably whatever it stood for would've been in German. I was trying for something starting with "Hitler Youth," but then I realized that would've been Hitlerjugend.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'll start capping it when I start putting the periods in SHIELD, or everyone else puts the hyphen in Spider-Man.