After Voyager, whats the order of your favourite ST series?

[PKTrekGirl]

^ I never liked those bubble shields anyway. I was quite happy that DS9 didn't use them very often. Frankly, I assumed all of the ships in Sacrifice of Angels had 'form fitting' shields. Some of which had failed (thus all the carnage)...but shields nonetheless. Bottom line is that the the Federation might well have lost that battle, if the Klingons hadn't showed up when they did. I mean, the Federation was VASTLY outnumbered by the Dominion & Cardassians. That's why Favor the Bold is named so aptly. The whole point was the the Federation was fighting against incredible odds. It's no wonder they were getting their asses kicked!

One of my all time favorite lines in DS9 was Sisko's little speech when O'Brien informed him that the Dominion fleet was 1,254 ships. That look on Sisko's face, like "holy shit!" (Bashir looked even MORE stunned)...and then that line: "There's an old saying. Fortune favors the bold. Well. I guess we're about to find out."

Positively chilling.

Personally, I liked all the Federation carnage in Sacrifice of Angels. War is hell, and it needed to be portrayed that way. I think that was a theme in DS9, actually - The Siege of AR-558 is another good example of that 'war is hell' message. The good guys win, but not without making some serious sacrifices - even among recurring cast members (Nog in particular).

 

[tomalak301]

^Not only making sacrifices, but making really hard and probably ethically wrong decisions, such as Sisko in In the Pale Moonlight.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ Oh yeah. Garak was right. Sisko got him involved precisely because he knew what Garak was capable of. Things he himself could not do.

"Think of them both as tragic victims of war."

 

[exodus]

^ I never liked those bubble shields anyway. I was quite happy that DS9 didn't use them very often. Frankly, I assumed all of the ships in Sacrifice of Angels had 'form fitting' shields. Some of which had failed (thus all the carnage)...but shields nonetheless. Bottom line is that the the Federation might well have lost that battle, if the Klingons hadn't showed up when they did. I mean, the Federation was VASTLY outnumbered by the Dominion & Cardassians. That's why Favor the Bold is named so aptly. The whole point was the the Federation was fighting against incredible odds. It's no wonder they were getting their asses kicked!

One of my all time favorite lines in DS9 was Sisko's little speech when O'Brien informed him that the Dominion fleet was 1,254 ships. That look on Sisko's face, like "holy shit!" (Bashir looked even MORE stunned)...and then that line: "There's an old saying. Fortune favors the bold. Well. I guess we're about to find out."

Positively chilling.

Personally, I liked all the Federation carnage in Sacrifice of Angels. War is hell, and it needed to be portrayed that way. I think that was a theme in DS9, actually - The Siege of AR-558 is another good example of that 'war is hell' message. The good guys win, but not without making some serious sacrifices - even among recurring cast members (Nog in particular).

I figured the theme was the "Trial Of Sisko". Don't you have to walk thru Hell to find Heaven?


My favorite quote is O'Brain & Bashir resighting "Battle of the Light Brigade".

"Canon to the left of me, canon to the right. Canon in front of me volleyed and thunder. Storm at with shot and shell, into the jaws of death, well into the mouth of Hell rode the 600..."

I get chills every time.

Almost like Janeway during "Scorpion" when the Borg Cube scans Voyager and she goes: "Think good thoughts."

 

[trilbymonkey]

Mine is :


VOY > TNG > DS9 > OS

(Havent seen ENT so can't comment...)

Same here, except I have seen ENT and it sucks.

 

[exodus]

^ Oh yeah. Garak was right. Sisko got him involved precisely because he knew what Garak was capable of. Things he himself could not do.

"Think of them both as tragic victims of war."

Garak was also correct in saying: "Only humans have rules in war."

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I figured the theme was the "Trial Of Sisko". Don't you have to walk thru Hell to find Heaven?

I can certainly live with that too. He had one hell of a 7 year run out at that outpost in the wilderness, didn't he?

My favorite quote is O'Brain & Bashir resighting "Battle of the Light Brigade".

"Canon to the left of me, canon to the right. Canon in front of me volleyed and thunder. Storm at with shot and shell, into the jaws of death, well into the mouth of Hell rode the 600..."

I get chills every time.

Yeah, that part is chilling too. That whole scene right before the battle starts...they timed it just right I though. Just enough time to let it sink in just how terrified THEY were at being so vastly outnumbered.

Almost like Janeway during "Scorpion" when the Borg Cube scans Voyager and she goes: "Think good thoughts."

Yeah...that was a great VOY moment, I thought.

But truthfully, one of my favorite episodes (or, at least until they pushed the reset button, anyway) was Year of Hell. That and Equinox sorta gave you a glimmer of what might have been. And what was that other episode, toward the end of VOY? The Void, was it? (I'm not nearly as good at remembering names of episodes outside DS9) Anyway, that was yet another episode that put the screws to Voyager.

My favorite episode in all of VOY though, is Deadlock. Once again, the same theme - tough choices in order to survive.

Survival in question...having to make the tough choices in order to live another day? That's the stuff great episodes are made of!

 

[2 of 10]

Voyager > DS-9 > TNG > TOS > ENT*

* Never watched Ent that much so I don't have an objective opinion of the series...

 

[Orac Zen]

Actually, I have Voyager, TOS and TNG on the same level. They're all equally enjoyable for me, in various ways, for various reasons. Very basically, what they had in common was characters who interested me and who I could give a damn about. None of the three were perfect but they they all had a number of things I found enjoyable.

DS9 lost me somewhere around season four, maybe even earlier. The things people like about it were, IMO, done on other shows and done better on those shows - and with characters I actually liked. One or two of the DS9 characters actually repelled me.

Enterprise basically lost me somewhere during the first season. I didn't like any of the characters - Pothos excepted - and that made it impossible (for me, anyway) to give a damn about what they did.

 

[freak]

Oh I am another BSG lover! For some reason I've gotten really hooked on that show. And it's their final season! Only FOUR more episodes left!!!! And if you are a Voy fan, I'd definitely give it a shot. It's not like Voyager..in fact it's not like trek at all.. It's a lot darker in comparison and makes TOS seem cheesy. And I love it that they say frak and use other crazy words. I sometimes find myself saying frak instead of the other bad word. Anybody catch themselves doing that at times?
Back to the topic at hand. I like Voy-TOS-DS9-TNG Never really got into ENT that much. In fact I can't even watch a full episode!

 

[kimc]

^ Only four more!? I don't get Sci Fi but I've been savoring my 4.0 dvds. I'm hoping by the time I'm done with them the 4.5 ones will be out.

 

[freak]

Yep, kimc, only four more episodes left. I'm glad I'm not the only fan. Sorry you don't get sci-fi channel. I wonder how come? I guess it's not available in all areas. All I can say is thank God we have it or I wouldn't have been able to see the show either.

 

[Orac Zen]

And if you are a Voy fan, I'd definitely give it a shot.

I did give it a shot. To say it did nothing whatsoever for me and I was completely and utterly underwhelmed by it would be the understatement of the decade.

To each their own, however.

 

[kimc]

Yep, kimc, only four more episodes left. I'm glad I'm not the only fan. Sorry you don't get sci-fi channel. I wonder how come? I guess it's not available in all areas. All I can say is thank God we have it or I wouldn't have been able to see the show either.

I'm one of the rare households that doesn't get cable. I really don't watch that much broadcast TV anymore but I do have my shows and movies I love to watch on dvd.

 

[exodus]

And if you are a Voy fan, I'd definitely give it a shot.

I did give it a shot. To say it did nothing whatsoever for me and I was completely and utterly underwhelmed by it would be the understatement of the decade.

To each their own, however.

I agree.

I think the new generations want more realism in their sci-fi, I'm old school and enjoy my sci-fi to be more fiction.

 

[Astraea]

I'm just getting into BSG (got the 1st season for my birthday in January, and my DVDs for S2-4 just arrived today.) Am completely loving it. I know that Ron Moore (showrunner on BSG and former DS9 staffer) said that it's how he would've done Voyager, but I don't really see too many similarities between the two.

I also find myself using 'frak,' and have gotten glared at for saying 'frak' in public.

My series preference goes: DS9>TNG>VOY>ENT with some caveats:

-Any VOY is better than S1 of TNG. Heck, any ENT is probably better than most of S1 of TNG. S1 of TNG was terrible; I recently tried a re-watch-through of TNG and couldn't get through it.

Also, most of S1 VOY is stronger than S1 of DS9 (except that DS9 produced the single best S1 episode of any Modern Trek, "Duet.")

-I've only seen the first two seasons of ENT, and I remember very little except for my giving up in disgust. (And everyone tells me it gets so much better after S2, but...I prefer my casts large, with lots of supporting characters/etc., as on DS9 or BSG. ENT's Big Three weren't cutting it for me.)

(Oh, and after two years of not watching ENT, I tuned in for the series finale - and got TATV for my efforts. Not exactly something that made me say, "Oh, what have I been missing all these years? I made a horrible, horrible mistake when I chose to stop watching.")

-I have never seen TOS or TAS. I don't have much of a desire to, either. This seems like heresy on a Star Trek board, but there you have it.

I was going to go out and buy S1-7 of VOY, but then I got BSG and that's momentarily taking precedence. I think once I've finished BSG I'll go back and get the VOY DVDs, and after that maybe consider ENT. The thing that frustrated me most about VOY was that it had a very promising start, and then they kept hitting the reset button or making nonsensical plot choices like C/7.

Oh, and out of curiosity, Orac Zen, which DS9 characters repelled you?

 

[PKTrekGirl]

And if you are a Voy fan, I'd definitely give it a shot.

I did give it a shot. To say it did nothing whatsoever for me and I was completely and utterly underwhelmed by it would be the understatement of the decade.

To each their own, however.

Well, and I think this the important thing - to give things a shot. If you end up not liking it, then you don't like it. No lives will be lost. No big deal.

But what really annoys me are the folks who have seen about 2 episodes of (insert any show here) and decide it sucks. And then come on these boards and go on and on about how MUCH it sucks in that show's forum.

I know I have seen alot of that foolishness in the DS9 forum over the years. And I'm quite certain you guys in VOY have seen it alot as well.

It's just easier to root out in the DS9 forum because these guys quickly reveal themselves as not knowing much about the arc of the show. Which allows us to identify them quickly and write them off as pretenders.

You guys in VOY don't have as much of that ability. You can try to nail them on the events of a particular episode, but all they have to say is "I didn't see that particular one....but I saw all the others! Really I did! And VOY sucked!"

In DS9, we can nail them much easier for not knowing much about something that was addressed for about 10 episodes.

In fact, we have become quite adept at this.

 

[exodus]

And if you are a Voy fan, I'd definitely give it a shot.

I did give it a shot. To say it did nothing whatsoever for me and I was completely and utterly underwhelmed by it would be the understatement of the decade.

To each their own, however.

Well, and I think this the important thing - to give things a shot. If you end up not liking it, then you don't like it. No lives will be lost. No big deal.

But what really annoys me are the folks who have seen about 2 episodes of (insert any show here) and decide it sucks. And then come on these boards and go on and on about how MUCH it sucks in that show's forum.

I know I have seen alot of that foolishness in the DS9 forum over the years. And I'm quite certain you guys in VOY have seen it alot as well.

It's just easier to root out in the DS9 forum because these guys quickly reveal themselves as not knowing much about the arc of the show. Which allows us to identify them quickly and write them off as pretenders.

You guys in VOY don't have as much of that ability. You can try to nail them on the events of a particular episode, but all they have to say is "I didn't see that particular one....but I saw all the others! Really I did! And VOY sucked!"

In DS9, we can nail them much easier for not knowing much about something that was addressed for about 10 episodes.

In fact, we have become quite adept at this.

How much time should you give a show that doesn't appeal to you before you're allowed to post you think it sucks?

 

[tomalak301]

I did give it a shot. To say it did nothing whatsoever for me and I was completely and utterly underwhelmed by it would be the understatement of the decade.

To each their own, however.

Well, and I think this the important thing - to give things a shot. If you end up not liking it, then you don't like it. No lives will be lost. No big deal.

But what really annoys me are the folks who have seen about 2 episodes of (insert any show here) and decide it sucks. And then come on these boards and go on and on about how MUCH it sucks in that show's forum.

I know I have seen alot of that foolishness in the DS9 forum over the years. And I'm quite certain you guys in VOY have seen it alot as well.

It's just easier to root out in the DS9 forum because these guys quickly reveal themselves as not knowing much about the arc of the show. Which allows us to identify them quickly and write them off as pretenders.

You guys in VOY don't have as much of that ability. You can try to nail them on the events of a particular episode, but all they have to say is "I didn't see that particular one....but I saw all the others! Really I did! And VOY sucked!"

In DS9, we can nail them much easier for not knowing much about something that was addressed for about 10 episodes.

In fact, we have become quite adept at this.

How much time should you give a show that doesn't appeal to you before you're allowed to post you think it sucks?

I typically give the show a season, or until it's cancelled to decide. It's not fair to judge a series based on a few episodes because they could always get better. I'm not watching it, but it seems like Dollhouse is a good example of this. The first two episodes are not all that great, but as the series goes on, it is getting better, or so I've heard.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

(response to exodus)

Well, certainly something north of a couple of episodes.

Personally, I think it's different with each show. But bottom line - enough episodes to get a REAL feeling for the show overall. ESPECIALLY if one is gonna go to that show's forum and bitch about it. For VOY, for example, I think that before bitching about it to anyone/everyone who will listen, you probably need to at least see Caretaker, a good strong handful of episodes from seasons 1-3, another good strong handful of episodes from seasons 4 & 5, and yet another good strong handful of episodes from seasons 6 & 7 (including the series finale). This is because of a number of reasons, including character changes, key 'bad guy' changes over the course of the series, and the distinct focus during the last couple of seasons (for good OR bad is a matter of individual taste) on a couple of characters in particular.

With ENT (another show which is commonly bitched about) I think you need to at least see a small handful of episodes from each season, plus the pilot and series finale. This is because by most fan's accounts, the quality of the show varied widely between individual seasons.

With DS9, I think you need to see a reasonable group of episodes from seasons 1 -3 (including Emissary), and a proportional (and thus larger) group of episodes from seasons 4 - 7, including some key Dominion War episodes and the series finale (in other words, you can't just watch the stand-alone Ferengi eps from seasons 4 - 7 and call it good ). This is because, starting with the beginning of season 4, the direction of the show obviously changed (for better or worse is in the eyes of the individual), several regular and substantially developed recurring characters were added to the show, and even the demeanor of Sisko himself changed rather substantially as Brooks was able to pry more freedom out of the hands of TPTB.

As I said, it is different with each show, but I think anyone who is seeking to be fair minded at all gets the idea here. All I am talking about is simply a true representative sampling of the show.

And might I also add that it is to the viewer's own benefit to do this. I know that I myself learned this lesson the hard way with Babylon 5. When it first came on, I saw 2 episodes of Babylon 5, thought the production values were cheap and the Centari ridiculous. And systematically wrote off B5 as a pile of crap trying to imitate Trek - and poorly at that. Now, granted, I didn't go and bitch about it in the SFF forum...but I still hadn't given it a fair chance for my own purposes.

Fortunately for me, Neroon and a couple of others suggested that I sit down and REALLY give the show a chance. In B5's case, they, the fans of that show, felt that if I watched thru the end of season 3 and hated it, that was a fair chance.

I thought, 'What the heck? Why not? What's the worst that could happen? A few hours wasted? Big deal!'

The smartest single decision I've made as a result of advice received on this board in over 7 1/2 years here.

6 years after my initial viewing and rush to judgment, I sat down to give B5 a REAL chance. And the result? B5 is now my second favorite show of all time (behind DS9) by the most miniscule of margins, my favorite scifi character of all time is not only a B5 character, but a Centari (the race who I had determined to be 'ridiculous'), my favorite single season of any scifi show ever is a B5 season, and my favorite single episode of any scifi episode ever is a B5 episode.

Now. Tell me who won as a result of my giving a show a REAL chance?