A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)
- Thread starter TheGodBen
- Start date
Yeah, mine has that defect, too. Funny, I don't mind either one.
Okay, TGB, your audience is waiting...
Jan
Yeah, but the Minbari wouldn't have had alcohol anyway. Sheridan might have brought some on the ship for the trip to Minbar, but he left it all behind because he didn't want to have the Minbari endangered by it.
Apologies all, I meant to write this yesterday but I was very tired all day and felt that if I had written it then I would have been too tired to do a proper crap finale special. Not that this review will be a masterpiece, the cider I'm currently drinking shall prevent that, but it's better than rushing it like I would have yesterday.
Sleeping in Light (*****)
Hang on, this finale isn't crap.
Bugger, that's going to harm the format I devised for Enterprise and Voyager. This show is really annoying like that, it doesn't give me enough opportunities to be overly critical and insulting to the writers. I should have reviewed Andromeda instead, I heard that show gets crap after a season or two. Ah well, time to begin the review proper.
Issue Number 1: Where's Lochley?
She's Sheridan's first wife and they seemed rather chummy, why doesn't she show up for his pre-death shindig? Because this episode was filmed before Lochley joined the show, that's why. I guess I can't complain about this issue then.
Issue Number 2: No Londo or G'Kar
Londo and G'Kar are good, popular characters, leaving them out of the finale feels wrong. Why did JMS do that? Because Londo and G'Kar are dead, that's why. Damn, I can't complain about this either!
Issue Number 3: B5 gets blowed up real good
Why blow up a space station when you can recycle the parts, the hull in particular could be used to build new ships. The environmentalists must have had a field day! Then again, seeing the station explode did look cool, and it was sad at the same time. I guess I can't complain about this either. This is the worst finale ever.
(And by that I mean it's the best finale ever.)
Issue Number 4: Boat engines and warp drives
How could Brannon Braga be stupid enough to think that working on boat engines qualifies you to become the chief engineer of a starship without any kind of college degree in advanced physics?! That's the most offensively stupid thing I've ever heard from a sci-fi show!
Wait, that was from Enterprise's finale.
Issue Number 5: I finished my cider
I drank it all and now it's gone.
The Good
Most of the episode, if I'm honest. It didn't have any action or suspense, it was a sweet coda to the series that focused on the characters like a good coda should. Sheridan wasn't my favourite character, but as the central character for most of the series it is fitting that the show should end with his death, and that his death should coincide with the station being blowed up real good. As for what happened to Sheridan's body, who can say? Frankly, I don't want to know.
I'm going to make this as clear as I can, and it is important that you all believe me: I didn't cry. I'm too manly for that. But I did feel sad twice, the most obvious time was when the fleet of ships moved away from the space station, that was a sad sight to see. The other time was when Delenn and Sheridan said goodbye one last time, when Delenn's voice started to crack up I completely bought into the moment.
Is the episode worth five stars? On its own, no. But as the concluding part to the show it has extra weight and meaning. This score has a lot more to do with the show as a whole. Unlike Severed Dreams or Intersections in Real Time, this isn't an episode that I would rewatch to enjoy, I could only watch this episode after finishing a rewatch of the show because that is the only way it would work for me.
Sleeping in Light (*****)
Hang on, this finale isn't crap.
Bugger, that's going to harm the format I devised for Enterprise and Voyager. This show is really annoying like that, it doesn't give me enough opportunities to be overly critical and insulting to the writers. I should have reviewed Andromeda instead, I heard that show gets crap after a season or two. Ah well, time to begin the review proper.Issue Number 1: Where's Lochley?
She's Sheridan's first wife and they seemed rather chummy, why doesn't she show up for his pre-death shindig? Because this episode was filmed before Lochley joined the show, that's why. I guess I can't complain about this issue then.
Issue Number 2: No Londo or G'Kar
Londo and G'Kar are good, popular characters, leaving them out of the finale feels wrong. Why did JMS do that? Because Londo and G'Kar are dead, that's why. Damn, I can't complain about this either!
Issue Number 3: B5 gets blowed up real good
Why blow up a space station when you can recycle the parts, the hull in particular could be used to build new ships. The environmentalists must have had a field day! Then again, seeing the station explode did look cool, and it was sad at the same time. I guess I can't complain about this either. This is the worst finale ever.
(And by that I mean it's the best finale ever.)Issue Number 4: Boat engines and warp drives
How could Brannon Braga be stupid enough to think that working on boat engines qualifies you to become the chief engineer of a starship without any kind of college degree in advanced physics?! That's the most offensively stupid thing I've ever heard from a sci-fi show!
Wait, that was from Enterprise's finale.
Issue Number 5: I finished my cider
I drank it all and now it's gone.
The Good
Most of the episode, if I'm honest. It didn't have any action or suspense, it was a sweet coda to the series that focused on the characters like a good coda should. Sheridan wasn't my favourite character, but as the central character for most of the series it is fitting that the show should end with his death, and that his death should coincide with the station being blowed up real good. As for what happened to Sheridan's body, who can say? Frankly, I don't want to know.
I'm going to make this as clear as I can, and it is important that you all believe me: I didn't cry. I'm too manly for that. But I did feel sad twice, the most obvious time was when the fleet of ships moved away from the space station, that was a sad sight to see. The other time was when Delenn and Sheridan said goodbye one last time, when Delenn's voice started to crack up I completely bought into the moment.
Is the episode worth five stars? On its own, no. But as the concluding part to the show it has extra weight and meaning. This score has a lot more to do with the show as a whole. Unlike Severed Dreams or Intersections in Real Time, this isn't an episode that I would rewatch to enjoy, I could only watch this episode after finishing a rewatch of the show because that is the only way it would work for me.
Five stars! 
I'm glad you liked it - for me, it's probably the best series finale I've seen (and I mean that in the same way you did- not taking it alone but as a true finale, on the basis of its relationship to the whole. In fact, that's probably why it works so well- it doesn't try to be a self-contained piece of entertainment, it embraces its role as an ending fully). I was very tearful myself (but then I'm like that), particularly during the final five minutes. The alliance fleet turning away from the station is one of my favourite on-screen moments, actually. To me, the central story of B5 was always about a group of cultures coming to understand that they're, well, "brothers and sisters", as scary and uncomfortable as that is to them. The final fleet scene really gives a satisfying conclusion to that. The sort of bittersweet "well, come on guys, let's go" vibe. And of course that mirrors the scene immediately prior, with Ivanova leading the surviving characters off the station...
I also appreciated that the First Ones participated in the "family get-together", so to speak. I thought it quite satisfying that the "parents" would be waiting for Sheridan at the end. Just out of curiosity, did you decipher Kosh's Day of the Dead message and guess at what it meant?
The other bits I primarily sniffle over are Delenn and Sheridan's goodbye-but-this-is-Minbar-so-we-don't-use-that-word-exactly ("goodnight my love..."), anything to do with Ivanova's state of mind, and Vir's speech. "You know, Londo never liked the pak'ma'ra..." And then they all fall silent...
"...then god sings with that voice..."
To get me out of the bittersweet, teary mode, I like to imagine Draal's reaction when the station explodes. They seem to have forgotten about him, haven't they? He's probably snoozing in the Great Machine, when suddenly there's a vast shockwave and half the ceiling caves in. "HOLY S**T WHAT THE...- thanks a lot, Delenn!!" Radioactive space debris raining down in his backyard for the next decade...
And I hope they remembered to wait for Straczynski before they left on the shuttle. Otherwise that could be embarrassing.
Well, thanks for the entertainment, even if the snarkiness had to be scaled back because you enjoyed it.
. I've really enjoyed your review thread, TGB- but then I enjoy pretty much everything you post here. What's next?
I'm glad you liked it - for me, it's probably the best series finale I've seen (and I mean that in the same way you did- not taking it alone but as a true finale, on the basis of its relationship to the whole. In fact, that's probably why it works so well- it doesn't try to be a self-contained piece of entertainment, it embraces its role as an ending fully). I was very tearful myself (but then I'm like that), particularly during the final five minutes. The alliance fleet turning away from the station is one of my favourite on-screen moments, actually. To me, the central story of B5 was always about a group of cultures coming to understand that they're, well, "brothers and sisters", as scary and uncomfortable as that is to them. The final fleet scene really gives a satisfying conclusion to that. The sort of bittersweet "well, come on guys, let's go" vibe. And of course that mirrors the scene immediately prior, with Ivanova leading the surviving characters off the station...I also appreciated that the First Ones participated in the "family get-together", so to speak. I thought it quite satisfying that the "parents" would be waiting for Sheridan at the end. Just out of curiosity, did you decipher Kosh's Day of the Dead message and guess at what it meant?
The other bits I primarily sniffle over are Delenn and Sheridan's goodbye-but-this-is-Minbar-so-we-don't-use-that-word-exactly ("goodnight my love..."), anything to do with Ivanova's state of mind, and Vir's speech. "You know, Londo never liked the pak'ma'ra..." And then they all fall silent...
"...then god sings with that voice..."
To get me out of the bittersweet, teary mode, I like to imagine Draal's reaction when the station explodes. They seem to have forgotten about him, haven't they? He's probably snoozing in the Great Machine, when suddenly there's a vast shockwave and half the ceiling caves in. "HOLY S**T WHAT THE...- thanks a lot, Delenn!!" Radioactive space debris raining down in his backyard for the next decade...
And I hope they remembered to wait for Straczynski before they left on the shuttle. Otherwise that could be embarrassing.
Well, thanks for the entertainment, even if the snarkiness had to be scaled back because you enjoyed it.
. I've really enjoyed your review thread, TGB- but then I enjoy pretty much everything you post here. What's next?
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I might get misty-eyed with the former, but never cry-cry at any point. I dunno, a lot of SiL is as you say, a fitting coda to a great series. As such, some lovely, poetic moments, but nothing that makes me cry.
Now, In The Beginning...
Actually, I rather thought it started out crap (but in a happy to be naff kind of way) but rapidly slid into unwatchable idiocy. It certainly gave the later season of Earth Final Conflict a run for their money and a lot of the later stuff makes the worst parts of Voyager & Enterprise look like writing gold by comparison.
Correct. Though no "in-universe" explanation is forthcoming I see only two possibilities; either she's dead, or like Zach wasn't where she was supposed to be when the invites were sent out. I don't think I'd be spoiling much by saying that the last we see or hear from Colonel Lochley (2271) she was still running B5. It's anyone's guess what she got up to in the next decade.
This show can be funny about little details like that.
They were at least, both mentioned as being missed. Also, I suppose now is a good a time as any to introduce you to these two official memorial videos for Andreas Katsulas and Richard Biggs. They may not make you cry, but they as surprisingly uplifting and not at all tacky as some such things tend to get.Money, basically. They'd already stripped out the weapons systems and key equipment that'd be worth something, the rest is just a shell and going to the effort of stripping the whole thing down and carting it all off would probably have cost more than the raw materials would be worth on their own. They couldn't just abandon it as is either since, without a crew or reaction control, it'd be a navigational hazard so close to a jumpgate, plus of course the danger that others (raiders and the like) would move claim it for their own purposes.
I do wonder though if they warned Draal they'd be raining flaming wreckage down on his planet. No matter, he'd probably have Zathras pick it all up. Poor old Zathras.
Aside from what Lorien came right out and said, there are clues here and there. The fact that Valen disappeared off in mysterious circumstances hints at a similar fate. Another would be Londo's heart-attack-dream conversation with Sheridan. His wardrobe cycles through his old EF uniform, to the AoL uniform, and Anla'shok Na before donning all white robes and bursting into a glowy light thing. Remember that Londo has been proven to be prescient on a number of occasions.
P.S. As you may or may not have noticed, the reason why Marcus never showed up for Lennier during the Day of the Dead is also hinted at during the end credits.
So, I take it the movies are next, yes?
Best end on a high note: avoid the movies.
Not until watching "Closure" on The X-Files did I match the tears I shed during Sleeping in Light.
LOST's finale out did both off them, though, because I was crying through the whole second half.
LOST's finale out did both off them, though, because I was crying through the whole second half.
Sleeping in Light is definitely up there with the greatest series finales. It never made me tear up (but no movie or show has ever made me tear up, to be honest), but it was still an emotional ride.
I agree that you should check out the movies, too. Yes, even Thirdspace and River of Souls.
I'd only watch A Call to Arms if you intend to follow it up with Crusade, though. Otherwise, wrap B5 up so you can do your DS9 thread! 
I agree that you should check out the movies, too. Yes, even Thirdspace and River of Souls.
I'd only watch A Call to Arms if you intend to follow it up with Crusade, though. Otherwise, wrap B5 up so you can do your DS9 thread! I'd say watch the four TNT movies (In the Beginning, Thirdspace, River of Souls, A Call to Arms), then Crusade, and then if you're a completist The Legend of the Rangers and The Lost Tales.
So basically everything in production/airing order.
Before TGB starts Crusade we should discuss a proper viewing order for the show though. With it's botched continuity, it's hard to find a viewing order without any inconsistencies.
So basically everything in production/airing order.
Before TGB starts Crusade we should discuss a proper viewing order for the show though. With it's botched continuity, it's hard to find a viewing order without any inconsistencies.
In the Beginning was my introduction to Bayblon 5. One of the best things the franchise ever did.
Also it has Londo Mollari. Being Londo Mollari. What's not to like?
Andromeda's first season was a little like Babylon 5's; a mixture of schlock and promise, with some solid characters (Tyr especially) and ultimately concluding with some big hints of a mythic background.
The show continued to do alright in the second season until midway when RHW left and it collapsed into unwatchable dreck.
As for "Sleeping in Light": Didn't cry either (but then I rarely ever do), but the final farewell between Sheridan and Delenn is a wonderful little moment.
Also it has Londo Mollari. Being Londo Mollari. What's not to like?
Andromeda's first season was a little like Babylon 5's; a mixture of schlock and promise, with some solid characters (Tyr especially) and ultimately concluding with some big hints of a mythic background.
The show continued to do alright in the second season until midway when RHW left and it collapsed into unwatchable dreck.
As for "Sleeping in Light": Didn't cry either (but then I rarely ever do), but the final farewell between Sheridan and Delenn is a wonderful little moment.
Season 5 Review
JANUARY: The fate of a puppet is at stake ... whenever lesbians are on screen ... I stopped watching B5 ...
FEBRUARY: Scott Bakula of Quantum Leap fame ... Do I have all this right? ... He wears a hat? Check ... and blow the crap out of it ... I'm very confused ...
MARCH: I have to believe that there is something more to it than that ... Technomages. Oh, goodie
... Eeeeeeeeee! ... to bare;y addtess thw actuial contflict ir issitatting ... Mind War 2: Less Interesting Boogaloo ... Extinction! I like it ...
APRIL: A frickin angel?!
... this is an intolerable situation ... Computer scientist monks ... the Queen of Star Trek ... Ivanova was going to start clamming Lt Corwin ... What the hell just happened here? ...
MAY: Godsdamn angels, they never tell me anything ... too drunk to make a pass at Lyta ... the name "Martin" tattooed on his buttocks ... I really hope the answer isn't time travel and magic light corks ... Vir is a good character? ...
JUNE: It's like watching one of Weebl's videos ... Captain Kelso, nice to meet you ... this awful, tacky, derivative episode ... No Borg spheres, magical time disruptions or batmobile armour were used ... Who the hell is Captain Lochley? ... He's really not that annoying, except for his hair ...
Cue music that sounds rather Arthurian.
Yet another sickeningly high graph, it almost makes me want to give up and descend into alcoholism. I hate myself for being too lenient. This is season 5, this was supposed to be a crap season that would cause the show's average to go down, but instead it dragged it up once more. I'm miserable just thinking about it.
The average score for the season was 6.545, those of you that are paying attention will have noticed that I actually scored this above season 3 (6.5), but only by 1 point. Yes, it appears that I prefer season 5 to season 3, which makes me a bizarre freak of nature. Ah well, we already knew that, didn't we? The red trendline points out the obvious; the latter half of the season was stronger than the first half, but for some reason I didn't find the first half to be that bad.
Godsdamnit, if I had scored one of the 7s as a 6 this would be a perfectly symmetrical bell-curve, but now my OCD is nagging at me. Bizarrely, this is the first time since I started doing these graphs where there isn't any gaps; the graph goes up, peaks at seven, then goes down again.
Best episode: Sleeping in Light
Worst episode: A View From the Gallery
Statistics
Captain Greyshirt: 16 (+1)
Scott Bakula: 74 (+9)
Scott Bakula?!: 4 (+0)
Season 1 Average: 5.045
Season 2 Average: 5.682
Season 3 Average: 6.5
Season 4 Average: 7.136
Season 5 Average: 6.545
Overall Average: 6.171
Voyager Average After 5 Seasons: 4.915
Enterprise Final Average: 5.206
In Summation
I admit that I'm surprised by this outcome, I was expecting season 5 to score somewhere in the region of 5.9, I didn't think it would get close to season 3's 6.5. I guess the reason why I scored this season higher than other people is that I didn't mind Byron and I didn't mind the telepath arc, it wasn't the best thing B5 did but it wasn't as bad as others made it out to be. Perhaps lowered expectations are the cause, who can say?
The second arc about Londo and the Centauri was one of the best parts of the series. I knew it was heading to a tragic end because of War Without End, but there was always a glimmer of hope that Londo would find a way to change the future we saw and that he would be allowed to continue his growth. In a way I'm thankful that didn't happen, this was a much better way for the show to end even if it was sad. I finally understand what people mean when they say that B5 was the story of Londo Mollari, and that is indeed my favourite aspect of the show. It may even give me an improved impression of season 1 if I watch the show again, one of my biggest complaints back then was Londo's characterisations. I may have to do this thread again some day.
What's the plan from here? I already have the remaining six movies and Crusade sitting underneath my TV so I'll be watching them over the next few weeks. My plan is to watch Crusade in DVD-order, but if you guys know of a better order then I'll watch it that way. But right now I'm off to take a shower because being a season 5 fan makes me feel all dirty...
JANUARY: The fate of a puppet is at stake ... whenever lesbians are on screen ... I stopped watching B5 ...
FEBRUARY: Scott Bakula of Quantum Leap fame ... Do I have all this right? ... He wears a hat? Check ... and blow the crap out of it ... I'm very confused ...
MARCH: I have to believe that there is something more to it than that ... Technomages. Oh, goodie
... Eeeeeeeeee! ... to bare;y addtess thw actuial contflict ir issitatting ... Mind War 2: Less Interesting Boogaloo ... Extinction! I like it ...APRIL: A frickin angel?!
... this is an intolerable situation ... Computer scientist monks ... the Queen of Star Trek ... Ivanova was going to start clamming Lt Corwin ... What the hell just happened here? ...MAY: Godsdamn angels, they never tell me anything ... too drunk to make a pass at Lyta ... the name "Martin" tattooed on his buttocks ... I really hope the answer isn't time travel and magic light corks ... Vir is a good character? ...
JUNE: It's like watching one of Weebl's videos ... Captain Kelso, nice to meet you ... this awful, tacky, derivative episode ... No Borg spheres, magical time disruptions or batmobile armour were used ... Who the hell is Captain Lochley? ... He's really not that annoying, except for his hair ...
Cue music that sounds rather Arthurian.
Yet another sickeningly high graph, it almost makes me want to give up and descend into alcoholism.
I hate myself for being too lenient. This is season 5, this was supposed to be a crap season that would cause the show's average to go down, but instead it dragged it up once more. I'm miserable just thinking about it.The average score for the season was 6.545, those of you that are paying attention will have noticed that I actually scored this above season 3 (6.5), but only by 1 point. Yes, it appears that I prefer season 5 to season 3, which makes me a bizarre freak of nature. Ah well, we already knew that, didn't we? The red trendline points out the obvious; the latter half of the season was stronger than the first half, but for some reason I didn't find the first half to be that bad.
Godsdamnit, if I had scored one of the 7s as a 6 this would be a perfectly symmetrical bell-curve, but now my OCD is nagging at me. Bizarrely, this is the first time since I started doing these graphs where there isn't any gaps; the graph goes up, peaks at seven, then goes down again.
Best episode: Sleeping in Light
Worst episode: A View From the Gallery
Statistics
Captain Greyshirt: 16 (+1)
Scott Bakula: 74 (+9)
Scott Bakula?!: 4 (+0)
Season 1 Average: 5.045
Season 2 Average: 5.682
Season 3 Average: 6.5
Season 4 Average: 7.136
Season 5 Average: 6.545
Overall Average: 6.171
Voyager Average After 5 Seasons: 4.915
Enterprise Final Average: 5.206
In Summation
I admit that I'm surprised by this outcome, I was expecting season 5 to score somewhere in the region of 5.9, I didn't think it would get close to season 3's 6.5. I guess the reason why I scored this season higher than other people is that I didn't mind Byron and I didn't mind the telepath arc, it wasn't the best thing B5 did but it wasn't as bad as others made it out to be. Perhaps lowered expectations are the cause, who can say?
The second arc about Londo and the Centauri was one of the best parts of the series. I knew it was heading to a tragic end because of War Without End, but there was always a glimmer of hope that Londo would find a way to change the future we saw and that he would be allowed to continue his growth. In a way I'm thankful that didn't happen, this was a much better way for the show to end even if it was sad. I finally understand what people mean when they say that B5 was the story of Londo Mollari, and that is indeed my favourite aspect of the show. It may even give me an improved impression of season 1 if I watch the show again, one of my biggest complaints back then was Londo's characterisations. I may have to do this thread again some day.
What's the plan from here? I already have the remaining six movies and Crusade sitting underneath my TV so I'll be watching them over the next few weeks. My plan is to watch Crusade in DVD-order, but if you guys know of a better order then I'll watch it that way. But right now I'm off to take a shower because being a season 5 fan makes me feel all dirty...
Well, there's no perfect order for Crusade. Seriously. It is logically impossible to have things be 100% consistent throughout that show, even if you slip in an extra uniform switch. My recommendation is to go with the JMS order. Yes, it sticks the self-described "Pilot" episode at the end, but it was a second pilot that was commissioned entirely at the network's request to get the show to waste time and effort so it'd be easier to cancel, and is best ignored. It also has the uniforms changing back and forth all willy-nilly and sticks the episode with the formal changeover at the end so it isn't so apparent. Personally, I think characters using devices they aren't going to invent for four episodes and referring to conversations they haven't had yet is a lot more irritating than wardrobe discontinuity, so I don't mind at all.
Air Date Ep# Prod# Title
01/04/09 9 103 Racing the Night
01/04/10 11 101 The Needs of Earth
01/04/11 10 102 The Memory of War
01/04/12 2 107 The Long Road
01/04/16 12 104 Visitors from Down the Street
01/04/17 3 106 The Well of Forever
01/04/18 13 105 Each Night I Dream of Home
01/04/19 5 110 Patterns of the Soul
01/04/23 4 109 The Path of Sorrows
01/04/24 6 111 Ruling from the Tomb
01/04/25 7 112 The Rules of the Game
01/04/26 1 108 War Zone
01/04/30 8 113 Appearances and Other Deceits
So, that's that. And just don't watch "War Zone." Seriously. "Racing the Night" already screams first episode, and it does a much better job of it. "War Zone" is a curiosity, at best.
Air Date Ep# Prod# Title
01/04/09 9 103 Racing the Night
01/04/10 11 101 The Needs of Earth
01/04/11 10 102 The Memory of War
01/04/12 2 107 The Long Road
01/04/16 12 104 Visitors from Down the Street
01/04/17 3 106 The Well of Forever
01/04/18 13 105 Each Night I Dream of Home
01/04/19 5 110 Patterns of the Soul
01/04/23 4 109 The Path of Sorrows
01/04/24 6 111 Ruling from the Tomb
01/04/25 7 112 The Rules of the Game
01/04/26 1 108 War Zone
01/04/30 8 113 Appearances and Other Deceits
So, that's that. And just don't watch "War Zone." Seriously. "Racing the Night" already screams first episode, and it does a much better job of it. "War Zone" is a curiosity, at best.
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