Sounds like a Dark Phoenix type saga. It worked in the X-men world. I'd have much rather kept Kes then Harry Kim or Neelix...
A Certain Pixie from Ocampa
- Thread starter 2takesfrakes
- Start date
My thought on Kes:
Just when she got to have long hair, and to me thats when she was at her sexiest, they replace her. I mean we only get a couple of long hair Kes episodes. I needed more.
Just when she got to have long hair, and to me thats when she was at her sexiest, they replace her. I mean we only get a couple of long hair Kes episodes. I needed more.
I loathed the long hair! Though it worked if they were writing her as getting older.. which they weren't 
Deanna was empathically invading the thoughts of innocent aliens crossing Picard's path.
What's another word for a nonconsensual intrusion?
Every bugger on the receiving end of Dee's probe had just cause to frag the Enterprise into stardust.
If Kes did that, becuase telepathy is so much more precise and penetrating than empathy, there would have been no drama.
"Baddie, goodie, baddie, baddie, goodie, baddie, goodie, baddie, baddie."
Kes should have just been stuck on weapons control, and blasted the baddies before they could do anything underhanded, and then maybe in repose the pixy could explain Voyager's ongoing rising deathtoll to her Captain.
What's another word for a nonconsensual intrusion?
Every bugger on the receiving end of Dee's probe had just cause to frag the Enterprise into stardust.
If Kes did that, becuase telepathy is so much more precise and penetrating than empathy, there would have been no drama.
"Baddie, goodie, baddie, baddie, goodie, baddie, goodie, baddie, baddie."
Kes should have just been stuck on weapons control, and blasted the baddies before they could do anything underhanded, and then maybe in repose the pixy could explain Voyager's ongoing rising deathtoll to her Captain.
I do NOT know why Janeway ever trusted her. Super powers, only 2 years old, zero experience. This is the problem with the overly sweet, people trust them and pedestal-ize them when they are just normally flawed individuals whose flaws are covered up by their oh gosh demeanors.
How much time did they really have together?
Kes was exiled to Aeroponics.
Who took over Aeroponics after Kes left?
Kes was exiled to Aeroponics.
Who took over Aeroponics after Kes left?
Probably Neelix, he's one to potter about as well as actually cooking the food that grows there.
Now I'm picturing him shirtless with a fencing sword, gone mad..
Now I'm picturing him shirtless with a fencing sword, gone mad..
I assumed Neelix, since he was always cooking funky shit.
As for Kes, when she was given the ax, it was rather jarring for me. I mean there were pluses and minuses for the change in direction, and emphasis on 7 of 9. I am not going to get into that aspect.
During the first run, I kept hoping for occasional guest appearances of Kes. When they got rid of her, she had just begun developing her Ocampan powers, and she was becoming more interesting. I had hoped she would pop up occasionally, in the same way Q did for TNG, to offer guidance, or what have you. You know, in sort of a Daniel Jackson from SG1's season 6, kind of way.
In fact, and I can't say why this was, but I just had it in my head that the reason she had said powers in the first place was that it was going to be revealed she was being groomed to be the Caretaker's successor, and would possibly have a hand in Voyager returning home in the finale.
Just when I finally made my peace with the fact that Kes was gone for good, along comes Fury, and what a steaming turd of an episode that was! Totally ruined the character of Kes for me, and in fact, made zero sense. I won't repeat what others said about it, other than to say I felt so cheated with that episode, and think it would have been better if it had never been made.
If only Kes could have been a recurring character, showing up once or twice a season, each time with something different about her or something that added to her story arc, I think it could have been the happy medium between replacing her with 7 of 9, yet not completely writing out the character of Kes. It would have totally been doable, too. With the money they could have saved instead of producing such episodes that either didn't advance the show or just plain sucked like Nemesis, Concerning Flight, Fair haven, spirit folk, 11:59, Alice, Tsunkatse, Nightengale, or any Harry Kim-centric episode for that matter, they could have easily paid Lein to reprise her role from time to time.
Last edited:
Interesting points, to be sure, but you've forgotten about something:
Kes was not "pedestalized" just because of her "oh gosh" demeanors, although only the most cynical would fail to find her charming. She was put on a pedestal, because she earned that kind of affection and adoration, from almost everybody on board.
Time and again, she gladly, often selflessly, helped others - very effectively. The entire regular ensemble of characters owes some kind of debt to Kes and she never had an ego about it, like the doctor, she just did it because she could.
Now, I understand that most people don't even want to be as good as Kes, so maybe their mistrust of her stems from that, more than these mysterious powers of hers. Unfortunately, the Production Team did everything they could, in the end, to vindicate those who didn't trust, or like her. I'm with The SubCommander on this one ... if they had to axe her, making her a guest star would've been ideal!
She had been waitressing half her life.
If you don't respect your waitress, they will spit in your coffee.
If you don't respect your waitress, they will spit in your coffee.
Well, there is a reason why we want the character as she was in the first three seasons. The reason is: We like the character as she is in the first three seasons!
If there's something you like, it might be a character in a TV series, a TV series itself, a rock band or whatever then you want that whatever it is to keep the attributes, abilities or style that made you like this item from the beginning because those attributes, abilities or style is the reason for making you like the character, series or whatever it is.
Simple as that!
Development? Yes, to a certain degree. But when we get pure destruction of what we like, then we might turn angry and dissapointed.
In the Kes case, the whole "dark sides" scenario is showed up in one, single episode "Cold Fire" and it's Tanis who's manipulating Kes. When Tanis was gone, there was no manipulation or influence on Kes anymore.
If we use one, single event as a "reason" for Kes to go mad, then there are plenty of situations which could make the other characters go mad as well, in some cases many more reasons then Tanis manipulation of Kes in "Cold Fire".
Not to mention that thew events in "Fury" was salt in the wounds for many of us Kes fans. Wasn't it enough that they dumped the character during dubious circumstances? Did they really have to bring her back after three years of denying that she ever was on the ship, just to humiliate and destroy the character? No doubt that some of us saw it as a deliberate finger to us.
Lynx, I applaud you, sir ... !!!
I loathed the long hair! Though it worked if they were writing her as getting older.. which they weren't
I still don't get how her hair grew that fast (meaning, in-universe...they didn't show it gradually growing. It was suddenly long). It was *super short* before. Didn't they make it long only because Lien couldn't handle the ears anymore? I know there is some story about her being allergic to the latex or something.
As for me, I liked her with the short hair. I am pretty sure not many people will agree with me? Not just on Kes, I like shorter haired Janeway. I liked T'Pol's short hair in ENT and Kira's short 'do on DS9.
I think short hair goes especially great on pointy eared females (like Ocampan and Vulcan).
Last edited:
Yeah she was allergic to the latex. As to how it grew so fast.. ALIENS! you can do anything with 'em.
I love Janeway's short hair too. I have a folder called Season 4 Hair
I think they made Kes look dowdy with that long hair but they could have written it in so that she was aging but FAIL they did not. It just appeared. BOOM.
I love Janeway's short hair too. I have a folder called Season 4 Hair
I think they made Kes look dowdy with that long hair but they could have written it in so that she was aging but FAIL they did not. It just appeared. BOOM.
Yeah it should have been because she was aging... agreed on that fail.
I much preferred Kes with short hair, as it framed her face better and generally enhanced her pixie appearance. I honestly don't know what else could've been done besides growing her hair long, to compensate for her latex allergies. Perhaps, she could've gone with that Audrey Hepburn headscarf thing? Having long hair definitely changed her look, though. So much so, in fact, that her outfits had to change, along with it. The catsuits on Kes weren't so bad, but they didn't coincide with her personality, really. She should've had her wardrobe reworked and I'm disappointed that they just went the horny fanboy route, instead of trying on sundresses, maybe. Something that reflected the character more accurately.
Using your own examples of music, bands and artist grow and often their music changes due to their maturity. Dylan, Lennon, Prince, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, etc. are all examples of this.
If part of the main characteristic of Kes was to watch her grow, change and mature. Did you fans expect Kes the be the same sweet little girl 7 years later? Where's the character development? Where's the exploration of one of the main aspects that make her alien & unique?
Why assume such based on a suggestion?
So what?
What does this have to do with idea that if tptb happened to have kept Kes, why they couldn't have brought up that issue again to explore her powers and give the character much needed drama and depth?
Enough with the pity party already.
Nobody was even talking about anything to do with "Fury" or how fans feel about it. Just the opposite in fact. I was discussing ideas that would have made Kes more dramatic thus giving her the potential for better stories.
I'm trying to picture Kes in a sundress jumping into a Jeoffrey's Tube trying to escape an invading Borg or Hirogen boarding party and it getting caught on the door.
Last edited:
Well, see ... that would add to the drama, wouldn't it? Kes making her getaway, only to have her pretty dress snag, holding her up, like in those cheap 1950's horror movies, as the monster encroaches, ever closer ... lustful and salivating ...
"Oh, no!!! It's coming straight for you...! Hurry up! Hurry up!!! Don't let the monster get you! Rip the dress ... tear yourself away! No, I can't look! Somebody, please ... save Kes!!!"
Actually, to be fair, I addressed Fury in my post, as well. It was a very bad episode, and one that was better off left unmade.
I mentioned "Fury" also. Although Lien's performance in "Fury" showed a lot of needed passion and zest for her character, it was ultimately just destructive and left her character on a negative note. There was no indication during her show run that she had any kind of torment or hidden anger and aggression. And she was the one who ASKED to leave the ship (obviously I am speaking about the in-universe Kes and not Lien). I found it implausible that Kes would behave that way and hand all of her former crew over to the Vidiians to have their organs ripped out.
I am not a Kes lover (nor am I a hater. I am pretty neutral)...but "Fury" was completely out-of-character and did not progress the actual story along at all. If they were going to bring Kes back for an episode, maybe it would have been better to show her aged and her having a hard time with it...something with some substance that wasn't completely out of character. I would have taken anything except insane angry mental patient Kes...
