So ... what shall we talk about?
A Certain Pixie from Ocampa
- Thread starter 2takesfrakes
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Did any of you people read the story with Kes and B'Elanna in Distant Shores?That was fantastic
For those of us who haven't read Distant Shores, "hook" us ...
what did you find so "fantastic" about this story?
I wish Kes would have come back at some pivotal moment to save her friends - rather than with an attitude, as in "The Fury." In fact, it would've been interesting to have had Kes and Seven of Nine on VOYAGER together, for at least a year, to see how things developed. Kes did enable The Doctor to go from student to teacher for Seven of Nine. And Kes would have been one of the first to welcome Seven to the Family, and treat her as a person. In this way, Kes and Seven would've been very complimentary. It would've been very charming and entertaining to see their budding friendship blossom into a sisterhood.
what did you find so "fantastic" about this story?
I wish Kes would have come back at some pivotal moment to save her friends - rather than with an attitude, as in "The Fury." In fact, it would've been interesting to have had Kes and Seven of Nine on VOYAGER together, for at least a year, to see how things developed. Kes did enable The Doctor to go from student to teacher for Seven of Nine. And Kes would have been one of the first to welcome Seven to the Family, and treat her as a person. In this way, Kes and Seven would've been very complimentary. It would've been very charming and entertaining to see their budding friendship blossom into a sisterhood.
I liked how her dresses became tighter and tighter and when that wasn't enough, she got kicked off and replaced by someone with bigger boobs and even tighter suits.
I too enjoyed that JarodRussel.
I watched "Fury" last night right after reading and responding to the other thread about Neelix (Ethan Phillips) possibly being fired instead of Kes (Jennifer Lien).
So I had a fresh watch of "Fury" last night. What I didn't like about it was how insanely blind her rage was in that episode. I mean, in all honesty... Kes CHOSE to leave... begged to leave. I understand her reasoning that she was still a "child" in a sense, but she clearly wanted to GO and had to go before her mental abilities tore the ship apart.
I would have preferred her to come back and guest star without having the character do a complete 180 and change SO much that she suddenly has the intention of handing ALL of her Voyager comrades over to the Vidiians to be sliced up and gutted for research. How did she even track Voyager down anyway? Telepathically? I know her powers have grown, but still...
However, I have to say that I saw more fire and passion in Lien's performance in "Fury" than I did in ANY of her normal previous episodes. Maybe the writers could have done more with her in Seasons 1-3 than they did...constantly making her act super agreeable all of the time. Maybe they could have written her as a more conflicted person, like how we saw her in "Elogium".
So I had a fresh watch of "Fury" last night. What I didn't like about it was how insanely blind her rage was in that episode. I mean, in all honesty... Kes CHOSE to leave... begged to leave. I understand her reasoning that she was still a "child" in a sense, but she clearly wanted to GO and had to go before her mental abilities tore the ship apart.
I would have preferred her to come back and guest star without having the character do a complete 180 and change SO much that she suddenly has the intention of handing ALL of her Voyager comrades over to the Vidiians to be sliced up and gutted for research. How did she even track Voyager down anyway? Telepathically? I know her powers have grown, but still...
However, I have to say that I saw more fire and passion in Lien's performance in "Fury" than I did in ANY of her normal previous episodes. Maybe the writers could have done more with her in Seasons 1-3 than they did...constantly making her act super agreeable all of the time. Maybe they could have written her as a more conflicted person, like how we saw her in "Elogium".
Yeah the constant super agreeableness is why I find her so boring. She was great in Warlord. Give her some personality for godsake, it's not like Lien couldn't deliver.
In some ways Fury is a good Trek lesson for humanity.. don't assume super aliens won't turn on you for reasons beyond your puny human logic. If a Klingon goes through some hormonal rage you didn't know was part of his aging cycle and starts smashing up the place you can stun him but if Q or super-Kes or Trelane does it you're screwed.
Humans in Trek so often act as though they are just soooo well meaning and full of value that they can tame the super aliens into respecting them as equals. But ya know when I'm in a really bad mood I might just stomp on that spider rather than catching it and putting it outside.
In some ways Fury is a good Trek lesson for humanity.. don't assume super aliens won't turn on you for reasons beyond your puny human logic. If a Klingon goes through some hormonal rage you didn't know was part of his aging cycle and starts smashing up the place you can stun him but if Q or super-Kes or Trelane does it you're screwed.
Humans in Trek so often act as though they are just soooo well meaning and full of value that they can tame the super aliens into respecting them as equals. But ya know when I'm in a really bad mood I might just stomp on that spider rather than catching it and putting it outside.
Kes' sweetness and cooperative attitude are what make her unique, I find. Beautiful women are so afraid of being perceived as "weak," that they have to be written as bossy and bitchy to be taken "seriously," it is so cliché. Kes is like a breath of fresh air, bringing some positive energy to the proceedings. She was the Heart of VOYAGER, both the ship and the series, those first three years. Neelix was Janeway's guide and Kes was Janeway's conscience. It was an interesting mix.
But that mysterious, almost deity-like power within her seemed introduced to push her toward a strange darkness, perhaps to address the grumblings of the vocal fanbase. And that she was so willing to explore it was compelling, yet, more than a bit concerting, as well. As a counterpoint to Kes' sweet nature, it did emphasize just how innocent and naive Kes honestly was, that she was unable to handle it, when she had finally uncorked the bottle, as it were, and allowed the Genie to escape. Kind of like what Annie Skywalker went through in the three STAR WARS prequels. Hey ... Three seasons of Kes, three movies of Annie! 3 for 3! And to the same result, pretty much. Really good, yet powerful people led astray ...
But that mysterious, almost deity-like power within her seemed introduced to push her toward a strange darkness, perhaps to address the grumblings of the vocal fanbase. And that she was so willing to explore it was compelling, yet, more than a bit concerting, as well. As a counterpoint to Kes' sweet nature, it did emphasize just how innocent and naive Kes honestly was, that she was unable to handle it, when she had finally uncorked the bottle, as it were, and allowed the Genie to escape. Kind of like what Annie Skywalker went through in the three STAR WARS prequels. Hey ... Three seasons of Kes, three movies of Annie! 3 for 3! And to the same result, pretty much. Really good, yet powerful people led astray ...
It seems just when she was getting real interesting, they got rid of her. 
I loved Kes. She was high on my list of favourite characters (behind Torres and Tuvok respectively). Such a shame they lost her in favour of the titilation factor. Kim or Neelix could've been lost without harming the series.
I hated "Fury". It warped her character, so I had to try and give her a better send off in one of the latest fanfics.
I hated "Fury". It warped her character, so I had to try and give her a better send off in one of the latest fanfics.
I think she was different cause Lien had grown as a person and brought that new experience to Kes. I think she understood the character she used to play better due to it.
Yes, her super agreeable nature was very one note. I think that's why the characters that got the better stories(Janeway, Seven, Doc, Torres) were the ones that contained some type of conflict within them. If Kes was meant to be overly curious, then it should have been her curiosity that got Voyager into unfortunate situations. Kes lacked depth IMO.
True but she had never seen the sun until 3 years before. She wanted to be let go in the DQ and had no idea how dangerous it was out there. She'd been safe on Ocampa and on Voyager, now she was out in the DQ with Borg, Hirogen, Krenium and who knows what others who would hunt her down. She also had out of control powers and the only thing she'd been taught about them was how to enhance life and how to take it away. How many people did she kill trying to defend herself? How many innocent died because she couldn't control it? How much death does one need to see before it drives them crazy? Remember "Memorial"? Remember how Neelix shot up the mess hall due to his experience trying to deal with him believing he murdered? He was shooting at his friends, trying to kill them.
I think the Kes was see in "Fury" is old, warn and crazy from post traumatic stress disorder.
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For those of us who haven't read Distant Shores, "hook" us ...
what did you find so "fantastic" about this story?
I wish Kes would have come back at some pivotal moment to save her friends - rather than with an attitude, as in "The Fury." In fact, it would've been interesting to have had Kes and Seven of Nine on VOYAGER together, for at least a year, to see how things developed. Kes did enable The Doctor to go from student to teacher for Seven of Nine. And Kes would have been one of the first to welcome Seven to the Family, and treat her as a person. In this way, Kes and Seven would've been very complimentary. It would've been very charming and entertaining to see their budding friendship blossom into a sisterhood.
I totally agree with you in your statements above. The scenario with Kes and Seven would have been really interesting.
As for "Distant Shores", I haven't read that one. At least not yet.
As for "Fury", I think that the "Kes" we saw in "Fury" was a being from a mirror universe. As for the story itself, it must be something wrong with the person who came up with it, I mean just to come up with such character destruction.
I also think that the episode should be erased from all future releases of Voyager DVD's, Blue-rays and such. If that happens, I will buy the entire season 6 on DVD or Blue-ray or whatsoever.
As for her personality, I find it very fascinating. She's both a contrast and a complement to more standard Star Trek female main characters, such as Janeway, Torres and later on Seven.
I am not a fan of "Fury," but I don't know ... maybe if they put a title card at the beginning, saying "Mirror Kes wreaks havoc on the Voyager crew ..." or whatever, from now on, it would add more substance to it for "Fury" fans and make her character's destruction somehow more tolerable for Kes fans.
As for those, like exodus, who find Kes to be rather "one note," you know what? I'd be all for developing Kes alot more. And it wouldn't have to be destructive, or threatening, or negative in any way. And her mental powers could've been played up more, especially, to have her - eventually - take on the sort of role for Janeway that Deanna Troi played for Picard, to give the captain an edge in dealing with unknowns.
Kes had so much potential, storywise, that would've benefitted the show's format and enabled the script writers to layer the show even further, dramatically.
As for those, like exodus, who find Kes to be rather "one note," you know what? I'd be all for developing Kes alot more. And it wouldn't have to be destructive, or threatening, or negative in any way. And her mental powers could've been played up more, especially, to have her - eventually - take on the sort of role for Janeway that Deanna Troi played for Picard, to give the captain an edge in dealing with unknowns.
Kes had so much potential, storywise, that would've benefitted the show's format and enabled the script writers to layer the show even further, dramatically.
... HA!!! No! That's not what I meant, at all, having Kes as "ship's counselor! I was thinking more along the lines of how Deanna could "sense" if there was danger, or deceit, that sort of thing, and give the captain a heads-up, as it were. If Kes' abilities were properly channelled, this would be most easily achieved ... and your beloved Janeway would've had more of an edge, with her dealings in the Delta Quadrant.
I would love to see Kes at the end of Janeway's leash, as her super sensory rottweiler.
"what is it girl? is it danger? DANGER?"
:: Janeway tosses Kes a biscuit ::
"what is it girl? is it danger? DANGER?"
:: Janeway tosses Kes a biscuit ::
Kes was very loyal to Janeway, like a trusting pekingese. I remember Janeway going through an ordeal on some alien world, to restore Kes back to health, after she had an accident in their sacred shrine. And if Janeway loved her ... maybe you could, too!
YES my god yes I LOVE THAT EPISODE.. Sacred Ground. I love it with all my heart because that is the episode that gave us Janeway's naked back.
THANK YOU STAR TREK GODS yes I know you are computers, I do not care.
THANK YOU STAR TREK GODS yes I know you are computers, I do not care.
No destructive, threatening or negative way?
Boring.
Why do Kes fans love to keep the character they love so stagnate? Why must she always be sweet and innocent and stay sweet? If her powers bring out a dark side, then why not use it to bring drama too her? It would be the inner conflict the character so desperately needs. A sweet innocent girl with a soul burning monster within her that comes out when her powers are used. Then create eps that force her to use them.
