A Better TNG Film Sendoff: What should have been included?

[shivkala]

In terms of a movie after Nemesis (as I think this is turning into a thread about what Nemesis did right or mostly, what it did wrong), I would have liked to have seen a movie that incorporated more aspects from DS9 and Voyager. While I guess no one working on Nemesis thought for sure it would be the last we'd hear of the 24th century (aside from the series finale of Enterprise), it would have been nice to include more of a wider 24th century aspect, instead of a reference to the Dominion War and a cameo by Janeway. How? Honestly, it would be tough to do so, but that's why they get paid the big bucks and I don't!

M-Red has a good idea in including Q, as I was a little disappointed that we didn't get to see him in a movie. Perhaps the Enterprise could have been sent on an exploratory mission into the Delta Quadrant now that the Dominion War is over. Not sure how to work Voyager into it, unless the Enterprise was ordered to assist/save Voyager. Honestly, this plot would lend itself more to the DS9 cast, though some cameos from Voyager personnel might work.

Again, not sure how it would work without becoming a mess, but I still would have liked a better coda to the entire 24th century. The best way I could see that happening would be to do another Borg movie, with the Borg coming through the Gamma Quadrant, setting up the Enterprise to coordinate with DS9 and at least consult with the Voyager crew since, aside from the Enterprise, they had more encounters with the Borg and even have a half-Borg crew member.

 

[knowthyself]

The deleted ending on the DVD shows Picard taking the newly repaired Enterprise out of drydock and onwards to new adventures.

This was far more upbeat than just having him get excited by news about the warp engines and then ending the film with a shot of the Enterprise still imprisoned within drydock.

Sean

yeah, this is basically what I said. The first time we see the enterprise in tmp is with these wonderful shots flying around it all prestine and new. we conclude our viewing of the enterprise in nemesis with the damn thing broke down.

I caught the ending today on showtime I think and it pissed me off all over again.

 

[Dr. Crusher]

In terms of a movie after Nemesis (as I think this is turning into a thread about what Nemesis did right or mostly, what it did wrong), I would have liked to have seen a movie that incorporated more aspects from DS9 and Voyager. While I guess no one working on Nemesis thought for sure it would be the last we'd hear of the 24th century (aside from the series finale of Enterprise), it would have been nice to include more of a wider 24th century aspect, instead of a reference to the Dominion War and a cameo by Janeway.

I agree--I hadn't considered Nemesis "the end" of the 24th century Trek story, but, indeed, it has turned out to be so. In retrospect, it would definitely have been a good idea to have incorporated DS9 and Voyager into a final film installment. You can make the argument that, for a few of the TNG films, neither DS9 nor Voyager had finished their series run on TV. However, DS9 and Voyager were complete by the time Nemesis was in the theaters.

I think this sheds light on a problem in the film industry generally--many films that could be particularly successful are left with somewhat open endings, so, if the opportunity arises, a new film could follow. Sometimes, it is a good idea to accept a film for what it is. By 2002, it was probably clear to most people still working on 24th century Trek material that it had gone on for about as long as it could. That being the case, why not consider Nemesis a film to close out that chapter in Trek history? That logic would have probably removed B-4 from the picture (the inclusion of yet another android with the implication that he could somehow be "Data" someday was not a Trek fan favorite). In addition, scenes between characters that ended up in the "deleted scenes" category may have been included in the full film.

If the writers/producers/etc. had seen Nemesis from the start as the end of the 24th century Trek chapter, I think we would have seen a very different film, perhaps in a good way.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Well, TNG is my all-time favourite series and I like Nemesis, so clearly I'm in a minority.

I would've liked to have Sela in there, and I wish Spiner hadn't hijacked things AGAIN for the worse, but generally the movie is just fine as-is.

Would I have liked to have seen a fifth TNG film as the "last" journey, and what would it entail... only if they hadn't killed Data in Nemesis. I'm sorry, but the lacklustre "post-Nemesis" fiction from Pocket Books has proven that if you dilute what made TNG great - the core characters - you get something mediocre. That's not to say they all had to be in exactly the same ship positions on the Enterprise as they've been for the last 15 years (Riker really is a loser when it comes to career progression); they could've all been split up, promoted etc - but any successful story needs to have them all in it, IMHO.

 

[Dr. Crusher]

I'm sorry, but the lacklustre "post-Nemesis" fiction from Pocket Books has proven that if you dilute what made TNG great - the core characters - you get something mediocre. That's not to say they all had to be in exactly the same ship positions on the Enterprise as they've been for the last 15 years (Riker really is a loser when it comes to career progression); they could've all been split up, promoted etc - but any successful story needs to have them all in it, IMHO.

I've both liked and disliked the progression of events in the TNG novels. I think the last one I read was "Before Dishonor," and I wasn't a big fan of such a high ratio of mixing between TNG and VOY characters. The novel was far more about Seven of Nine, who I am not really a fan of, than the TNG crew.

It would certainly have been possible to have seen the TNG crew promoted/moved, etc. In fact, that was the whole initial hook into the TOS films. In retrospect, it does seem a little odd/unusual to have people who have been portrayed as top-of-the-line remain in the same positions, often even with the same rank, for such a long time (poor Riker).

I thought that the reason they added B4, who conveniently downloaded all of Data's memories and experiences, was as a "just in case" move. If they decided to do another movie after Nemesis, given Data was such a popular character, I don't think they thought they could do without him. I certainly could be wrong about that--I never read anything that confirmed my suspicion.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

After FC's commercial and critical success, TPTB should have mapped out a coherent plan for ending the TNG movie franchise in a logical way that tied together the broader TNG story and strengthened the broader Trek brand.


Obviously, that didn't happen.


In my perfect world where I controlled Trek, the TNG franchise would have looked like this after FC:


Romulan Movie I: geopolitical theme; introduce new emperor-like Romulan villain; ditch all cloning concepts with Data and Picard; ditch the Reman concept; incorporate Spock and Tomalak; provide an Empire Strikes Back-like, cliff-hanger ending.


Romulan Movie II: geopolitical conclusion to the TNG franchise; fall of Romulan Emperor; death of Tomalak; Picard's farewell to Spock, who continues to work toward his Unification mission; Rommie Empire and Feds establish workable New Peace


Q Movie: franchise comes full-circle with Q and a bright film and hopeful message; Q not as villain, but as Guide/Judge; Q condemns Mankind for recent violence of Feds with Dominion and Rommies; Q transports Ent-E across the universe and introduces them to new and fantastic world where a moral dilemma surrounds a benign race they must help; Data's sacrifice and quest for humanity saves benign race and proves mankind's worth to Continuum; Q wishes Picard well, saying "See you....out there" after JLP rejects Q's offer of immortality; Data provides closure by wishing crew goodbye in a Tasha Yar-like holodeck setting; upbeat and hopeful, the Enterprise sails off in a fade-to-black with the theme song



Obviously, I haven't given this much thought

I really like those ideas.

 

[BrownShatner]

What little marketing Nemesis received heavily implied that it was the TNG send-off.

Of course the random person would have seen little of this unless they were watching ST Enterprise. Regardless, nobody really cared and the theaters were half-full on opening weekend.

I don't think it's any great surprise. The studio knew the film was a stinker and buried it. Hardly anyone cared about the "send-off", what the trekkie and non-trekkie audience wanted was a half-decent movie.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I think they should have started off with Riker and Troi already married and serving onboard the Titan. The movie would then focus around two 'separate' plots which are actually connected and see the two ships coming together to resolve it.

A plot revolving around the Romulans would have been acceptable. I didn't mind the Remans, but they seemed to come from nowhere (having never been mentioned previously--yes the Romulan Empire was said to have two homeworlds, but seeing as how the Romulans aren't indiginous to either of them doesn't mean an entirely new species). If it was a Romulan-based movie, I would loved to have seen Sela back (regrouping the cast from S1 for the final movie), as well as having Spock make a cameo--just not doing a Generations and taking the focus away from the TNG crew.

Explanations given for why Worf is now apparantly back in Starfleet (or have him remain as an Ambassador who gets back into uniform for one last mission with the Enterprise) and where the hell Wesley had been. I would loved to have seen a few old crewmembers reappear (Rager, Selar, Lavelle, to mention a few).

Also if Data were to die at the very end, then have him stay dead--no frakking back-up android to cheapen his death!

Those are just my initial thoughts, more will probably come in time though.

 

[USS Kongo]

I think they should have started off with Riker and Troi already married and serving onboard the Titan. The movie would then focus around two 'separate' plots which are actually connected and see the two ships coming together to resolve it.

Sort of how Captain Sulu and the Excelsior worked with the Enterprise crew in The Undiscoverd Country. I really like that idea. It would have been nice to finally see Riker as the captain of his own ship (not to mention we'd get to see what the Titan looked like).

Sean

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

^ That was one thing I liked about TUC, the fact that the crew were finally split up and going their own directions. It might also mean we would have a canon design for the Titan, and who doesn't love new starships?

I would also think that Riker would take Troi along as his wife/Counsellorm and maybe Geordi as his new XO (seeing as how he will apparantly command the Challenger by the mid-late 2380s). That would leave Picard with Crusher as CMO and Data as his new Number One. A few other previously established characters could be brought back to fill in the vacant posts (eg the Titan could have Selar as CMO, Lavelle at Ops and Mordock as Science Officer; the Enterprise could then have Perim at the Conn, Rager at Ops and Wesley as Science Officer).

The Enterprise could be on a diplomatic mission between the UFP, Romulan and Klingon Empires (which is why Worf is onboard), whilst the Titan is on a routine aurvey mission along the border when they discover [ENTER IDEA HERE]...

Basically, I would have loved the final TNG film to be something for the fans, bringing back characters and elements of the series for one last shindig.

 

[knowthyself]

The movie would then focus around two 'separate' plots which are actually connected and see the two ships coming together to resolve it.

this is what I had hoped Generations would have been

 

[issreliant]

the major plot was my problem. Shinzon's "i must destroy earth felt out of place, if it was a romulan cival war concerning the remans would have been more interesting, incuding major space battels.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I never really understood why Shinzon wanted to destroy Earth. What had it ever done to him? Now if he was hell-bent on destroying Romulus, that I could understand. It would then leave the Enterprise-E and Titan being the first line of defence against his super-weapon.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I never really understood why Shinzon wanted to destroy Earth. What had it ever done to him? Now if he was hell-bent on destroying Romulus, that I could understand. It would then leave the Enterprise-E and Titan being the first line of defence against his super-weapon.

His hatred for Earth was a hatred for what he really was (human) and how he came into being. He even talks about the "echo" (copy) destroying the "voice" (original), and as part of that, he wanted to eradicate that which he was, but at the same time could never be: Human. Not only be destroying the original Picard, but the home of what he detested in himself...humanity.
(He even says his heart is Reman).

As for why not Romulus... his revenge against them was to position himself as their overall leader and eventually turn THEM into the slaves, ruled by the Remans. He wanted to humiliate and rule over them (on behalf of the Remans) as for revenge against the way they were treated.

I don't have any problem with Shinzon's motives.

 

[22 Stars]

^the echo and the voice is about him and Picard, not him and all of Mankind, that is pretty obvious.

If he wanted to rule Romulus then he should have ruled, not made his first exectutive decision to start a galactic war against the Federation. It really does not add up, sorry.

They missed an opportunity to do something that could have been memorable, and had the 'Shinzon' character (horrible name by the way to chose) quickly age to be portrayed by PS in dual roles. That would have been fun an unique. Instead what we got was muddled motivations and anything but fun and anything but unique.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ We already had Spiner in a double role. With Stewart in a double role, it would have started to resemble one of those Laurel & Hardy movies where Stan and Ollie also played their wives.

But I suppose having PS play Shinzon might have overcome the fundamental problem of Tom Hardy playing a clone who in no way whatsoever resembled the person he was supposed to be a clone of!

 

[Enterprise is Great]

I'm actually getting tired of actors playing their own clones. That's how every nearly story is involving clones in movies and tv are done. So i really had no problem with another actor playing clone Picard especially with Spiner doing Data and B-4. Shinzon was close enough to work for me. You're almost never going to get a younger version of a character exacly right. Close is enough.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ I agree with you to a certain extent. For example, I think Zachary Quinto was quite believable as the young Spock, even when in the same scene as Leonard Nimoy.

Unfortunately, I just couldn't accept Hardy, fine actor that he is, was the young Stewart.

Marina Sirtis has suggested that James Marsters should have played the role. That might have worked. Build-wise, height-wise, cheekbones, jawline and nose, he's a lot closer to Patrick Stewart.

 

[M-Red]

After FC's commercial and critical success, TPTB should have mapped out a coherent plan for ending the TNG movie franchise in a logical way that tied together the broader TNG story and strengthened the broader Trek brand.


Obviously, that didn't happen.


In my perfect world where I controlled Trek, the TNG franchise would have looked like this after FC:


Romulan Movie I: geopolitical theme; introduce new emperor-like Romulan villain; ditch all cloning concepts with Data and Picard; ditch the Reman concept; incorporate Spock and Tomalak; provide an Empire Strikes Back-like, cliff-hanger ending.


Romulan Movie II: geopolitical conclusion to the TNG franchise; fall of Romulan Emperor; death of Tomalak; Picard's farewell to Spock, who continues to work toward his Unification mission; Rommie Empire and Feds establish workable New Peace


Q Movie: franchise comes full-circle with Q and a bright film and hopeful message; Q not as villain, but as Guide/Judge; Q condemns Mankind for recent violence of Feds with Dominion and Rommies; Q transports Ent-E across the universe and introduces them to new and fantastic world where a moral dilemma surrounds a benign race they must help; Data's sacrifice and quest for humanity saves benign race and proves mankind's worth to Continuum; Q wishes Picard well, saying "See you....out there" after JLP rejects Q's offer of immortality; Data provides closure by wishing crew goodbye in a Tasha Yar-like holodeck setting; upbeat and hopeful, the Enterprise sails off in a fade-to-black with the theme song



Obviously, I haven't given this much thought

I really like those ideas.

Thanks, I have a detailed outline of each film (not that I waste much time or anything ) that I've thought about posting here before.

Some of the other very good ideas (at least imo) mentioned here by other posters were actually a part of my trilogy as well.


For instance, the first one is set six years after FC (2379) ---essential to really move the story forward ---and Riker has been in command of his own ship (not the Titan) for three years already (Troi is with him and she's pregnant). Move I begins with the Ent-E and Riker's ship traveling to Romulus after a reunion of sorts between the main cast. Midway through, the Emperor destroys Riker's ship and captures Riker/Troi and their senior staff, taking them back to Romulus as trophy prisoners.


As an aside, the Rommie emperor doesn't want to destroy Earth and he thinks Picard is small potatoes. He's a racist, xenophobic (but brilliant) glory hound who wants to permanently shift the geopolitical balance of power, and he's obsessed with his own personal legacy.


Worf has surprisingly settled in as a reliable Fed-Klingon ambassador and makes regular trips back and forth between Earth and Q'noS. He's in command of a Defiant class starship (named the Badger), and O'Brien is his most trusted crew member. The Klings are increasingly unhappy with Starfleet, and Worf must convince the Empire that SF is still a partner, not a master. As events unfold with the Rommies, his task becomes easier.


Movie II features Voyager (Janeway and Seven) as a prominent part of the Fed armada as they battle the Rommie fleet. Movie III opens up at DS9, with the jovial crew at Quark's while the E-E is receiving repairs. In Movie III, Q whisks Picard away to a still-smoldering Cardassia Prime, and then to the Great Link on a planet in the DQ...as a way to emphasize the negative aspects of mankind's influence on the galaxy.


There's also a very subtle Picard-Crusher love story, a development we learn about in Movie I after Bev confides in Troi that they've been discreetly seeing each other for several months. Movie III centers prominently around Picard trying to decide what his future should be like, as Q shows him multiple different future versions of his life with him as Capt., Adm, or a quiet married man with Bev in rural France.



*apologies in advance -- not trying to threadjack...but there's some really good ideas here from multiple posters and thought I'd share.

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

^the echo and the voice is about him and Picard, not him and all of Mankind, that is pretty obvious.

If he wanted to rule Romulus then he should have ruled, not made his first exectutive decision to start a galactic war against the Federation. It really does not add up, sorry.

In the movie Shinzon is working with the Romulan military. They're the ones who helped him become praetor and that was because he promised them action against the Federation.