Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Samurai8472, May 18, 2013.
And yet, it's my absolute favorite episode of Doctor Who ever made, so
I find it so very hard to believe that Clara, a human (?) was able to fracture herself all the way to Gallifrey. I would've thought the Time Lords would've been able to prevent that. If that were the case then all the Daleks et al had to do was find a Time Lord grave and attack it. Granted 99.999999% of them would've been on Gallifrey itself...
And I thought the Time War cut off all access to the past of the Doctor (when the Doctor destroyed Gallifrey then regenerated), so really Clara should only have been able to go back as far as the Ninth Doctor.
I assume the Doctor life is special because all he has seen & done made his own tomb a powerful weapon, The Doctor hinted at the face he's travelled more than anyone else.
Normally I don't have any interest in reading novels based on TV shows but I would love to read a novel based on Clara's life on Gallifrey.
Speaking of novels, I'd like to declare 'Lungbarrow' non-canon.
There. I've said it.
"Lungbarrow" has always been non-canon.
We finally got to watch it tonight.
One of the finest hours hours of television this year.
I don't really have anything to add to the discussion that hasn't already been said. I don't know, honestly, if I understood it all, but I loved it.
I am bummed we have to wait so long to pick everything up. Lots of time for speculation and argument, I guess...
Ending the time war saved the entire rest of existence though. If he didn't do it then he would be allowing the Time Lords to literally uncreate everything that had or will ever live. Whatever Hurt Doctor did would need to be far more villainous than that. If he had been drafted into the time war and actually fought for the Time Lords and committed atrocities in their name before finally coming to his senses (or being forced to them, or regenerating) and stopping the entire war by destroying both sides before they could destroy the universe, it would be far more suiting that the Doctor would be ashamed of him.
It'll be something different. Something we haven't heard of. Moffat - in one of the few decisions I've agreed with - has tried to distance himself from the RTD-driven Doctors who are heavy on the Time War, with Smith the Time War has barely been mentioned, and it's been a good thing.
I doubt it'll suddenly show up for the anniversary - and how the Zygons fit into it I have no idea...
I'd much prefer it if John Hurt's incarnation was a militant mad-man, drafted into the Time War and forced to do all sorts of unspeakable acts out of obligation. Then, near the end, he regenerates into Eccelston who then uses the Moment to do what needed to be done, deciding to do it because of all the things the John Hurt incarnation was forced to do.
It would much more fully explain why Eccelston's incarnation was so PTSDy, far more than just wiping out his own people. And he wouldn't be lying when he said that it was him that did it, as opposed to a disavowed incarnation of himself.
Please let it be the last. Strax fairly well summed up my feelings, 'Not the one with the big head.' Moffat has turned a fascinating character into one that always has to know more than anyone else in the room, including the Doctor. She really is a Marysue, much more so that Rose could ever be called. Were Alex Kingston not as entertaining an actress as she is, I would utterly loath the character.
Hm, I hadn't thought about that situation in that way. That implication is just as bad as the notion The Master has been hearing "the sound of drums" since he gazed into the Eye of Harmony, which is a notion I utterly despise (I like to think he's been hearing them since the Time War but I realize the episode goes against that).
I wouldn't go that far, but I really enjoyed AGMGTW and I've never understood the big problems people have with it. But then I loved Let's Kill Hitler too...
I like this idea.
What's wrong with it?
I think because there's no indication any of the other Masters were hearing drums. You'd have thought they'd have mentioned it at some point.
I think it was the About Time books who suggested if he has been hearing drumming all this time driving him slightly mad it would explain why he never seemed to realise alien races would double cross him, used ridiculously convoluted plans, disguised himself when there was no need to and why he pursued low level villany like trying to disrupt the signing of the Magna Carta.
You think the Meddling Monk was the Master?
Maybe it wasn't as severe back then. He didn't mention that he was lactose intolerant either.
Of course it's a retcon, but it adds a little something to the character to make him something more than just "like the Doctor, but EEEVIIIL", so that was a welcome addition to the character, as far as I'm concerned.
In both cases, as Starkers suggested with The Master, there's absolutely no indication of such a thing has happened over such a long period of time (both in universe and in real time).
Interesting, which book states that and where? I have all of them but I've read small sections of each so far. (And on a completely off topic note, are they ever going to do books for Eccleston and Tennant?)
My theory is that the time lock is still in effect, hence why Clara missed the Hurt Doctor when she splintered everywhere. He's the Time War Doctor.
Not that I'm in any hurry to revisit the Time War. The Daleks are a threat to rival the Time Lords? LMAO. The Time Lords are elemental Gods. Give them a more interesting.. Enemy . Probably the ONE thing RTD did right in his otherwise atrocious treatment of the Time Lords was make them an all-powerful force. Swiftly stopped by a deus ex machina of course but otherwise very powerful.
There's no way in shit that I'm gonna accept Voyage of the Damned or whatever as canon and not the excellent Lungbarrow.
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