Nearly as cool as the original idea of Kate Winslet playing River...How cool would it have been if Eva Habermann played Idris?
6x04 The Doctor's Wife(Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)
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Nearly as cool as the original idea of Kate Winslet playing River...How cool would it have been if Eva Habermann played Idris?
Was that ever a serious consideration or just wishful thinking on the part of fans?
It was serious, as far as I know. But don't quote me on that.
I'm such a guy because the moment you mentioned Kate Winslet all I remembered were her boobs from "Titanic" but seriously, she was pretty good in that. But I think in all fairness, Alex Kingston was the right choice and I can't see anyone else in the role.
It was serious, as far as I know. But don't quote me on that.
I'm such a guy because the moment you mentioned Kate Winslet all I remembered were her boobs from "Titanic" but seriously, she was pretty good in that. But I think in all fairness, Alex Kingston was the right choice and I can't see anyone else in the role.
And I always remember her role in Casualty, But I also associate Ecclestone with Cracker, McGann with Withnail and Tennant as a manic mental patient. Smith is a bona fide newcomer.
It was serious, as far as I know. But don't quote me on that.
I'm such a guy because the moment you mentioned Kate Winslet all I remembered were her boobs from "Titanic" but seriously, she was pretty good in that. But I think in all fairness, Alex Kingston was the right choice and I can't see anyone else in the role.
And I always remember her role in Casualty, But I also associate Ecclestone with Cracker, McGann with Withnail and Tennant as a manic mental patient. Smith is a bona fide newcomer.
I tend to think of David Tennant as Casanova from Masterpiece Theatre.
I think of her in Croupier. Great role.
I finally saw the episode last night and I absolutely loved it! First my thoughts on the the episode and then a read through of the thread. Apologies for any repeated comments and/or notions.
What was easily my most anticipated episode of Doctor Who in years, it ultimately did not disappoint me. I've been on a major Neil Gaiman kick in the past year having read Neverwhere (but I haven't watched the series, yet), American Gods, The Graveyard Book and parts of Fragile Things,and reread Good Omens, so naturally I loved the utter Gaimanness of this episode. The quirky characters (uncle and auntie), the Gothic atmosphere, the random assortment of objects that cluttered the asteroid (which felt like I stepped right back into Neverwhere, my favorite Gaiman novel), playing with the viewers' and characters' head (such as House playing with Amy's mind while in the corridors of the TARDIS)...and so on. Some people expected Gaiman to break against the norm in Doctor Who, so I was not surprised when he quickly slipped in the comment about a Time Lord changing genders. I felt the Who fandom exploding at that very moment. Of course, I'm sure Moffat was all for it (Joanna Lumley, need I say more?).
Speaking of TARDIS corridors...TARDIS CORRIDORS!!! You can't imagine how thrilled I was to finally see more of the TARDIS interior beyond the the console room in the new series (beyond a glimpse viewing of the wardrobe way back in "The Christmas Invasion"). My only complaint (as minor as it is) is that I wish the design (or at least the colors and shapes) of the corridors changed during the sequence but I can understand and appreciate why they didn't do that from a cost prohibitive angle. Still, it was very thrilling to see them. And not only that, we got not just one, but two new console rooms! The first I assume is the Blue Peter winner design (and granted it wasn't actually The Doctor's TARDIS, but it was still exciting to see) and we got a redressing of the old coral console room standing in as the old secondary console room! Gaiman both pandered and enraged fans in the same goddamn episode. I love it!
As for the actual story of the episode, it was quite lovely. Gaiman brought out a theme that has quietly been present since the very beginning: The close and personal relationship between The Doctor and the TARDIS. We see how much they love each other, and while I still prefer the original episode title of "The House of Nothing," I find "The Doctor's Wife" more appropriate than I did before viewing the episode. Gaiman also all but confirmed the fan theory that the TARDIS hasn't necessarily been malfunctioning all these years but in fact took The Doctor and his companions where and when they were most needed. I'm not one for confirming age-old fan theories, but this one brought a smile to my face. Nah, it brought a big, fat, shit-eating grin to my face.
I don't know why people don't like Suranne Jones, but I thought she was lovely as the antagonistic yet endearing avatar of the TARDIS. Michael Sheen was good as House but I wish the post-production team left more of his voice recognizable. If I didn't know ahead of time, I would have no idea this was the same guy who played David Frost, Tony Blair, and Zeus/Castor. But who knows, maybe that's more credit to him than anything else?
Overall, 10/10. Best episode since "Vincent and the Doctor" (clearly we need more classic British writers on this show), second best Matt Smith episode (but might be upgraded to best on further viewings), and one of the best since the series has returned. More of this please.
What was easily my most anticipated episode of Doctor Who in years, it ultimately did not disappoint me. I've been on a major Neil Gaiman kick in the past year having read Neverwhere (but I haven't watched the series, yet), American Gods, The Graveyard Book and parts of Fragile Things,and reread Good Omens, so naturally I loved the utter Gaimanness of this episode. The quirky characters (uncle and auntie), the Gothic atmosphere, the random assortment of objects that cluttered the asteroid (which felt like I stepped right back into Neverwhere, my favorite Gaiman novel), playing with the viewers' and characters' head (such as House playing with Amy's mind while in the corridors of the TARDIS)...and so on. Some people expected Gaiman to break against the norm in Doctor Who, so I was not surprised when he quickly slipped in the comment about a Time Lord changing genders. I felt the Who fandom exploding at that very moment. Of course, I'm sure Moffat was all for it (Joanna Lumley, need I say more?).
Speaking of TARDIS corridors...TARDIS CORRIDORS!!! You can't imagine how thrilled I was to finally see more of the TARDIS interior beyond the the console room in the new series (beyond a glimpse viewing of the wardrobe way back in "The Christmas Invasion"). My only complaint (as minor as it is) is that I wish the design (or at least the colors and shapes) of the corridors changed during the sequence but I can understand and appreciate why they didn't do that from a cost prohibitive angle. Still, it was very thrilling to see them. And not only that, we got not just one, but two new console rooms! The first I assume is the Blue Peter winner design (and granted it wasn't actually The Doctor's TARDIS, but it was still exciting to see) and we got a redressing of the old coral console room standing in as the old secondary console room! Gaiman both pandered and enraged fans in the same goddamn episode. I love it!
As for the actual story of the episode, it was quite lovely. Gaiman brought out a theme that has quietly been present since the very beginning: The close and personal relationship between The Doctor and the TARDIS. We see how much they love each other, and while I still prefer the original episode title of "The House of Nothing," I find "The Doctor's Wife" more appropriate than I did before viewing the episode. Gaiman also all but confirmed the fan theory that the TARDIS hasn't necessarily been malfunctioning all these years but in fact took The Doctor and his companions where and when they were most needed. I'm not one for confirming age-old fan theories, but this one brought a smile to my face. Nah, it brought a big, fat, shit-eating grin to my face.
I don't know why people don't like Suranne Jones, but I thought she was lovely as the antagonistic yet endearing avatar of the TARDIS. Michael Sheen was good as House but I wish the post-production team left more of his voice recognizable. If I didn't know ahead of time, I would have no idea this was the same guy who played David Frost, Tony Blair, and Zeus/Castor. But who knows, maybe that's more credit to him than anything else?
Overall, 10/10. Best episode since "Vincent and the Doctor" (clearly we need more classic British writers on this show), second best Matt Smith episode (but might be upgraded to best on further viewings), and one of the best since the series has returned. More of this please.
Wait..."Day of the Dead" is considered controversial? How so? Granted it's been years since I've seen it, but it was one of my favorite non-arc episodes.
Oh, that's a very interesting idea. Probably not intentional but perhaps it's a set-up for things to come...?
YES! I knew there was a Gaimanism that I forgot in my list! Love story set in a haunted house story.
I was also disappointed by the lack of a Susan mention. There was even a natural point for it to happen without raising too many questions, but alas...Again no mention of Susan.
I wonder if it means he picked her up at some point AFTER he took the Tardis?
I didn't notice this, so I'll have to listen more carefully the next time I watch the episode, but I have a feeling whoever described Paul's voice earlier (Alex, Allyn?) is correct. Oddly, I found myself listening more for Romana. There was a female voice in the mix and I couldn't help but think I heard a snippet from the Big Finish Gallifrey audio play series. I was probably hallucinating.
I couldn't help but think of that, too, but I think that may have been too nerdish.
But just imagine Hugh Laurie's House insulting The Doctor...
Yes. I was thrilled to see that image.Nice little character moment was the image that flashes up when Amy is trying to telepathically project "delight" as part of the password... her wedding day.
Glad you liked it EMH, your views pretty much tally with mine.
Re Suranne Jones, I think the issues is in the UK that she was percieved as a certain kind of actress. She's best known for a recurring role in a soap opera, and as you can see on one of the other threads she did a fair few sexy photoshoots a few years back, but then most young attractive actresses have!
Me the only thing I'd ever seen her in was Sarah Jane, and despite the odd accent I thought she was quite good, so I didn't have a major issue with her, but I've learned over the years to judge someone by how they perform in a role rather than my preconceptions (basically after getting my fingers burned over Daniel Craig who I raged against but now love as 007) This is why I was pretty relaxed when they hired that young whippersnapper precious few people had heard of to be the 11th Doc
I loved the little snippet of Amy's wedding day as well
By the way, are you likely to ever see Neverwhere? I'd love to know what you think about Paterson Joseph's Maquis deCarabas (that role's the main reason I always wanted him to be the Doctor)
Re Suranne Jones, I think the issues is in the UK that she was percieved as a certain kind of actress. She's best known for a recurring role in a soap opera, and as you can see on one of the other threads she did a fair few sexy photoshoots a few years back, but then most young attractive actresses have!
Me the only thing I'd ever seen her in was Sarah Jane, and despite the odd accent I thought she was quite good, so I didn't have a major issue with her, but I've learned over the years to judge someone by how they perform in a role rather than my preconceptions (basically after getting my fingers burned over Daniel Craig who I raged against but now love as 007) This is why I was pretty relaxed when they hired that young whippersnapper precious few people had heard of to be the 11th Doc
I loved the little snippet of Amy's wedding day as well
By the way, are you likely to ever see Neverwhere? I'd love to know what you think about Paterson Joseph's Maquis deCarabas (that role's the main reason I always wanted him to be the Doctor)
I watched it for about the fourth time today, and I must have been a bit tired and emotional because I found myself bawling my eyes out at the final scene where Idris tells him the word is "alive" and that it's sad, and then explains why. In previous viewings I hadn't noticed but Rory also had tears in his eyes. Rory is easily the best thing about this season, and Arthur Darvill is just marvellous. Apparently in the next episode (which I haven't read any other spoilers about) Rory plays a much more major role which I'm really looking forward to.
As for Suranne Jones, well she can return any time she likes, I thought she was great. I didn't realise she was in that SJA episode (which I recall hating quite a bit ) but I don't care. She was brilliant.
As for Suranne Jones, well she can return any time she likes, I thought she was great. I didn't realise she was in that SJA episode (which I recall hating quite a bit ) but I don't care. She was brilliant.
As an American I think of her years-long stint on ER as Dr. Elizabeth Corday.
Checkmate
Commodore
Agreed. "The Doctor's Wife" just seems contrary to the whole River story, even though they did throw one little tidbit about that in there. Unless, of course, they're trying to imply that River is the TARDIS, but that doesn't make any sense at all given what we know.
"The Doctor's First Wife" or something would have made more sense. But "The House of Nothing" is much more appealing, and much more Neil Gaimon-y.
"The Doctor's First Wife" or something would have made more sense. But "The House of Nothing" is much more appealing, and much more Neil Gaimon-y.
I read the first four pages of this thread (no time to go through all 26! of them before posting my own thoughts) and the opinion seems to be (mostly) extremely positive.
Perhaps it's because I'm new to the Whoniverse ---I only started watching the show on a regular basis last year--- and so didn't get all the references to earlier series and doctors, but to me this seemed a pretty average episode (I rated it "good" in the poll). For one, there were so many things that (at least from my point of view) didn't make much sense. The whole soul of the Tardis thing was a bit silly, but I'm willing to accept that as the gimmick of the week, which enables us to have a look at the Doctor-Tardis relationship. Fine, I can go with that, but then on top of that there was so much more:
-Out of the universe? Huh, what? Why was that necessary? They can just travel out of the universe?! Okay, they had to delete some rooms, but still, seems a small price to pay for something as supposedly huge as that, whatever it even means.
-So the Doctor killed all the time lords, but then House (that was its name, right?) also killed a bunch of them? So didn't the time lords notice that many of them were being killed off before the Doctor finished the job? For example, this Corsair person, the Doctor seemed to know him personally. So he would have known that he was not among the ones he killed, right? So why was he surprised when he found out that he might still be alive?
-Why did the Doctor lock Amy and Rory in the Tardis? Because he got emotional? What kind of reason is that? Or might it have been a cheap dramatic trick?
-What was the running around through the Tardis all about? Amy and Rory were behaving as if they were running from and/or to something, but they were just trying to entertain House to stay alive, right? (Up until the moment the message of the Tardis came of course.) All in all this seemed fairly pointless (except of course to show off what were apparently old sets).
-So Auntie, Uncle and Nephew were just entertainment for House as well? Or did they serve another purpose as well? I guess House couldn't mind control the time lords he captured, or he would've used them to lure new time lords in, instead of replacing body parts in his old subjects. It's not like he cared about them, he let them die the minute he was done with the planet.
-Speaking of mind control, the whole messing with Amy's head bit, came across as nothing but some gratuitous horror. Did anyone think Rory actually died (again!)? Could he only mess with her mind, or even control it like Auntie's, Uncle's, and Nephew's? Why not use this when they were in the control room?
-From reading this forum over the past weeks I got the impression that the Doctor was supposed to care about all life (people were understandably upset when he had humans hunt down and kill the Silent; people were understandably upset when he let a killer pirate loose on the universe), but in this episode he doesn't seem to care much about killing the Ood or House. Plus, he killed all (?!) the time lords (but that, as I understand, was already a plot point earlier in the series?).
Btw, is it just me, or is some of the dialogue very hard to catch each week?
In conclusion, the episode was entertaining enough to watch, but scratching the surface only little and the story lost all its coherence. I get that all that was just a way to get the Doctor to interact with the Tardis on a more personal level, but when your dramatic tricks are so obvious and don't stand up to much scrutiny at all, then I can't rave about this episode like some others here have. Especially since I don't have the "ooh, look, old Doctor stuff" factor.
Perhaps it's because I'm new to the Whoniverse ---I only started watching the show on a regular basis last year--- and so didn't get all the references to earlier series and doctors, but to me this seemed a pretty average episode (I rated it "good" in the poll). For one, there were so many things that (at least from my point of view) didn't make much sense. The whole soul of the Tardis thing was a bit silly, but I'm willing to accept that as the gimmick of the week, which enables us to have a look at the Doctor-Tardis relationship. Fine, I can go with that, but then on top of that there was so much more:
-Out of the universe? Huh, what? Why was that necessary? They can just travel out of the universe?! Okay, they had to delete some rooms, but still, seems a small price to pay for something as supposedly huge as that, whatever it even means.
-So the Doctor killed all the time lords, but then House (that was its name, right?) also killed a bunch of them? So didn't the time lords notice that many of them were being killed off before the Doctor finished the job? For example, this Corsair person, the Doctor seemed to know him personally. So he would have known that he was not among the ones he killed, right? So why was he surprised when he found out that he might still be alive?
-Why did the Doctor lock Amy and Rory in the Tardis? Because he got emotional? What kind of reason is that? Or might it have been a cheap dramatic trick?
-What was the running around through the Tardis all about? Amy and Rory were behaving as if they were running from and/or to something, but they were just trying to entertain House to stay alive, right? (Up until the moment the message of the Tardis came of course.) All in all this seemed fairly pointless (except of course to show off what were apparently old sets).
-So Auntie, Uncle and Nephew were just entertainment for House as well? Or did they serve another purpose as well? I guess House couldn't mind control the time lords he captured, or he would've used them to lure new time lords in, instead of replacing body parts in his old subjects. It's not like he cared about them, he let them die the minute he was done with the planet.
-Speaking of mind control, the whole messing with Amy's head bit, came across as nothing but some gratuitous horror. Did anyone think Rory actually died (again!)? Could he only mess with her mind, or even control it like Auntie's, Uncle's, and Nephew's? Why not use this when they were in the control room?
-From reading this forum over the past weeks I got the impression that the Doctor was supposed to care about all life (people were understandably upset when he had humans hunt down and kill the Silent; people were understandably upset when he let a killer pirate loose on the universe), but in this episode he doesn't seem to care much about killing the Ood or House. Plus, he killed all (?!) the time lords (but that, as I understand, was already a plot point earlier in the series?).
Btw, is it just me, or is some of the dialogue very hard to catch each week?
In conclusion, the episode was entertaining enough to watch, but scratching the surface only little and the story lost all its coherence. I get that all that was just a way to get the Doctor to interact with the Tardis on a more personal level, but when your dramatic tricks are so obvious and don't stand up to much scrutiny at all, then I can't rave about this episode like some others here have. Especially since I don't have the "ooh, look, old Doctor stuff" factor.
It was serious. Davies tells Benjamin Cook in The Writer's Tale that he was talking to Winslet's people about "Silence in the Library." And that he wanted Michael Gambon for the role Colin Salmon ultimately played.Was that ever a serious consideration or just wishful thinking on the part of fans?Nearly as cool as the original idea of Kate Winslet playing River...How cool would it have been if Eva Habermann played Idris?
In a way, we're better off that RTD ultimately didn't cast Winslet, as I have great difficulty imagining Winslet reappearing on a semi-regular basis in seasons five and six. On the other hand, I think Winslet would have been utterly smashing as River Song.
