The detail and backstory on this is great. Excellent work.
2270-2290s Gaming Minis (Including obscure designs!)
- Thread starter Norsehound
- Start date
I'm aware
If/when the time comes to get this to a publisher I'd try pitching to a company that already has the license.At the moment though, my only concern is making sure core game play is fun, good, and stable before moving on to visual design. If nothing else I'm making a single copy for myself to be the most awesome portfolio item I've ever designed. What I do after that is not certain yet.
If I decide not to publish it, I could go the pnp or re-theming route. I already have a couple of my own IPs I could re-design this for, with some gameplay tweaks and changes.
I do have a few other friends and groups that are interested in testing this, but I'm not opening up my beta files at the moment because I have to revisit some core aspects of the game to bring it closer to something more fun and playable. Specifically, I'm rebuilding the entire rulebook (v0.8) and creating a rules glossary because the game is about as complex as, say, Star Wars Armada. I've run into some bad rulebooks and complicated learning methods in a few game so far, legibility is important to me.
^^^
I enjoy all the FFG Star Wars games. They're about ass complex as I'd like. Have you ever played the FASA Star Trek tactical game from the 80s? If so, how does your game compare to that? (If you are unfamiliar, it's quite a bit simpler than Star Fleet Battles, but hardly a pushover either.)
--Alex
I enjoy all the FFG Star Wars games. They're about ass complex as I'd like. Have you ever played the FASA Star Trek tactical game from the 80s? If so, how does your game compare to that? (If you are unfamiliar, it's quite a bit simpler than Star Fleet Battles, but hardly a pushover either.)
--Alex
I have not played FASA's Starship Tactical Combat Simulator... I have an acquaintance who used to play way back when, it's in his estimation other ships weren't worth playing because the Enterprise class is so superior to everything else. Somewhere I might have the materials to try it, since I was curious. Most of my recent gaming experience is Star Wars Armada.
I'll say the arrangement I'm going for is similar to Armada's. I'm creating a learn-to-play rulebook which is friendly and outlines basically the general structure of the turn, what certain things mean, and a general look at all the things you'll be doing (for instance, a walk through of how to do a mission). The Glossary will contain everything in hard facts and extravogent detail, so the itemized procedure of how to do a mission would be laid out there, along with a section defining what the various mission types are, and different sections describing how certain parts work (such as what challenges are, what timers are and how they work, etx).
I don't intend on this to be twilight imperium levels of complexity, and try to keep a lid on mechanics.
At the core of everything is the skill check. It's D8 based, roll that, and 6+ are successes. You use these kinds of skill checks for everything from combat resolution to attempting and resolving missions and performing scans.
I'll say the arrangement I'm going for is similar to Armada's. I'm creating a learn-to-play rulebook which is friendly and outlines basically the general structure of the turn, what certain things mean, and a general look at all the things you'll be doing (for instance, a walk through of how to do a mission). The Glossary will contain everything in hard facts and extravogent detail, so the itemized procedure of how to do a mission would be laid out there, along with a section defining what the various mission types are, and different sections describing how certain parts work (such as what challenges are, what timers are and how they work, etx).
I don't intend on this to be twilight imperium levels of complexity, and try to keep a lid on mechanics.
At the core of everything is the skill check. It's D8 based, roll that, and 6+ are successes. You use these kinds of skill checks for everything from combat resolution to attempting and resolving missions and performing scans.
I'd like to see a Decker Mini.
In terms of Klingon designs, this looks nice
https://www.shapeways.com/product/P...-m-w-support?optionId=57588641&li=marketplace
The events of Discovery should have been post Nemesis--with this Klingon ship a natural bridge from TNG to the Discovery type Klingon designs
https://www.shapeways.com/product/J...battleship?optionId=64833114&li=user-wishlist
It does seem to point the way.
I can see this as a saucer base
In terms of Klingon designs, this looks nice
https://www.shapeways.com/product/P...-m-w-support?optionId=57588641&li=marketplace
The events of Discovery should have been post Nemesis--with this Klingon ship a natural bridge from TNG to the Discovery type Klingon designs
https://www.shapeways.com/product/J...battleship?optionId=64833114&li=user-wishlist
It does seem to point the way.
I can see this as a saucer base
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Er... all of those ships are outside of the 2270-2290s range...
There are a lot of ships in this period from a variety of sources. One of the possible expansion ideas I had was mini-box expansions that would include one ship, a couple of ship cards necessary to fly with it, and maybe one or two officers. You really only get duplicates of ships in the base set, every other craft is rare enough to be a one-off. If you wanted more (say, more Loknars) you'd have to buy an additional expansion. Board game companies do irritating things like that, so I'm following the pattern.
Not so for these small ships however. The Akula doesn't have a place in any of the projected large-box expansions I thought up, but it and the Okinawa would be things I'd like to offer up as possibly player ships... though the Oberth struggles enough as it is to be relevant. I want ship types to be interesting, not punishing, and I didn't have any plans to represent the gradual increase in the ranks to bigger ships. Well, that's kinda not true, after accomplishing a few missions players could trade up to a different (not necessarily bigger) ship.
All of that is a preamble to show off this model saying, "Well, I did a Ranger."
But I don't know if the Ranger has a place, honestly. It's an ultra-light scout that lacks the Oberth's powerful structure-defining sensor. And the Okinawa already has the slot of being the lowest-viable ship, so....
I think the only ship less capable than the Ranger is the Sydney, which I would also like to model and either use as a player ship (a very fast courier with lots of transport capacity and ease of escape) or one of the few freighters (automated card-driven transport ships that move from place to place, ripe for being attacked by pirates).
There are a lot of ships in this period from a variety of sources. One of the possible expansion ideas I had was mini-box expansions that would include one ship, a couple of ship cards necessary to fly with it, and maybe one or two officers. You really only get duplicates of ships in the base set, every other craft is rare enough to be a one-off. If you wanted more (say, more Loknars) you'd have to buy an additional expansion. Board game companies do irritating things like that, so I'm following the pattern.
Not so for these small ships however. The Akula doesn't have a place in any of the projected large-box expansions I thought up, but it and the Okinawa would be things I'd like to offer up as possibly player ships... though the Oberth struggles enough as it is to be relevant. I want ship types to be interesting, not punishing, and I didn't have any plans to represent the gradual increase in the ranks to bigger ships. Well, that's kinda not true, after accomplishing a few missions players could trade up to a different (not necessarily bigger) ship.
All of that is a preamble to show off this model saying, "Well, I did a Ranger."
But I don't know if the Ranger has a place, honestly. It's an ultra-light scout that lacks the Oberth's powerful structure-defining sensor. And the Okinawa already has the slot of being the lowest-viable ship, so....
I think the only ship less capable than the Ranger is the Sydney, which I would also like to model and either use as a player ship (a very fast courier with lots of transport capacity and ease of escape) or one of the few freighters (automated card-driven transport ships that move from place to place, ripe for being attacked by pirates).
ADB has those up on their Shapeways page, in case you didn't know.
As I mentioned, I've been at this project for Star Trek captains ever since about Janurary. Since, so far, the sky's the limit... I've given a lot of thought to what the expansion model would look like and the various mechanics that would be included in them. For everything that would be included I've given some consideration as to what it would look like and how it would work.
Most of my work so far has gone into testing the core set and making sure the base mechanics work. At the moment, I think the skills tests need to be a little more succinct and players need to have a more straightforward path to completing missions.
Still... since I'm not sure if the wow-and-impress-a-paramount executive is really going to work, I think I'll share with you guys where this effort has gone, and where I want to take it:
The TNG component is something I've cooked up only after stating to share my work here. I'm not happy with the Galaxy I made, but it's a start:
I have a bit of a conundrum, though. I do have the option of re-theming... but there are a few issues. Foremost is it means dropping all of the above, the universe I'd be re-theming to doesn't have a lot of the content being used up here.
And, well, my star cruiser design might be a bit too similar to the TMP aesthetics that I really wanted to capture...
Most of my work so far has gone into testing the core set and making sure the base mechanics work. At the moment, I think the skills tests need to be a little more succinct and players need to have a more straightforward path to completing missions.
Still... since I'm not sure if the wow-and-impress-a-paramount executive is really going to work, I think I'll share with you guys where this effort has gone, and where I want to take it:
The TNG component is something I've cooked up only after stating to share my work here. I'm not happy with the Galaxy I made, but it's a start:
I have a bit of a conundrum, though. I do have the option of re-theming... but there are a few issues. Foremost is it means dropping all of the above, the universe I'd be re-theming to doesn't have a lot of the content being used up here.
And, well, my star cruiser design might be a bit too similar to the TMP aesthetics that I really wanted to capture...
I'm not a gamer so can't comment much on the mechanics etc, but I think your expansion model looks perfectly balanced (though I'm guessing there's a typo that you've no Galaxy in the TNG core set?)
The art itself is clean and clear, and I like the font header change for TNG. As for the Galaxy model itself; the forward 2ndary hull curves back in towards the middle at the front; you don't appear to have that - hence why Deflector looks a bit gaping. Otherwise perfect!
The art itself is clean and clear, and I like the font header change for TNG. As for the Galaxy model itself; the forward 2ndary hull curves back in towards the middle at the front; you don't appear to have that - hence why Deflector looks a bit gaping. Otherwise perfect!
Thanks Toph!
Yes, missing the Galaxy is an oversight. It would serve the same position the Excelsior/Constellation does in the TMP core set- you can't start with it, and you have to work your way up to getting it. Galaxy and Nebula would also be, I think, the biggest ships you could drive in the scope of both games.
They're also so big that I'll subscribe to one early TNG idea: They don't need to resupply. Their stores are so vast they can go for long periods of time without needing to revisit starbase- but they are the *only* class with this ability.
Yes, missing the Galaxy is an oversight. It would serve the same position the Excelsior/Constellation does in the TMP core set- you can't start with it, and you have to work your way up to getting it. Galaxy and Nebula would also be, I think, the biggest ships you could drive in the scope of both games.
They're also so big that I'll subscribe to one early TNG idea: They don't need to resupply. Their stores are so vast they can go for long periods of time without needing to revisit starbase- but they are the *only* class with this ability.
For whatever it's worth I've opened up a thread on Boardgamegeek about the game!
Paul DeStefano, one of the designers behind the Fleet Captains expansions, chimed in and now I'm having doubts about this whole project.
I don't want to get in trouble over this, but if it's just going to be more problems then it's worth I might just fix up and release what I have, imperfections and all, as a portfolio prototype and take the design someplace else. It sucks, because this is a passion project of mine that has been getting results and been fun to work with (and research!, and play!) But... if it's not going anywhere, what's the use?
I don't want to get in trouble over this, but if it's just going to be more problems then it's worth I might just fix up and release what I have, imperfections and all, as a portfolio prototype and take the design someplace else. It sucks, because this is a passion project of mine that has been getting results and been fun to work with (and research!, and play!) But... if it's not going anywhere, what's the use?
Yeah you're bumping into several IPs here, really. Not only CBS official Star Trek, but also FASA and DC art. Your best bet I think is to put the ship models on Shapeways and release the rules and cards free online someplace as a fan project. Alternately, design your own ships and setting as an original IP and pursue traditional publishing of your rules.
This game looks interesting. I'd love to try it out either way.
--Alex
Yeah...
The difference between now and when you brought this up before Alex, is that now I'm worried I'll be in the middle of developing some expansion or another and then a C&D will stop me from continuing even this pnp.
I don't know if that will exactly happen, and I think I don't even want to go there.
So what I'm thinking is finishing the visual designing for the core set, and releasing that as a PnP, then move production on to an original take (which I'm already thinking of). A few of my models are already on shapeways, but since I don't know how strict the rules here are on sales, I don't think I'll go as far as to post a direct link.
This could have been awesome. Alas...
The difference between now and when you brought this up before Alex, is that now I'm worried I'll be in the middle of developing some expansion or another and then a C&D will stop me from continuing even this pnp.
I don't know if that will exactly happen, and I think I don't even want to go there.
So what I'm thinking is finishing the visual designing for the core set, and releasing that as a PnP, then move production on to an original take (which I'm already thinking of). A few of my models are already on shapeways, but since I don't know how strict the rules here are on sales, I don't think I'll go as far as to post a direct link.
This could have been awesome. Alas...
Speaking from personal experience with Stage 9, the stance seems to be "everything's okey so long as you don't publicly release anything that competes with a licensed product". With that in mind, I'd encourage you to maybe open a dialogue with either a licensee or CBS directly, and approach them with the matter. Unlike what Mr. DeStefano said, they do are open to small enterprises getting permission to use the IP, if they do like the idea (though they do have certain exclusivity deals on some areas). It's something that's decided on a case by case basis.
This is what we should've done with Stage 9, but we never did because of fear we'd be C&D. In the end we got the C&D all the same, with no chance to pitch our ideas...
This is what we should've done with Stage 9, but we never did because of fear we'd be C&D. In the end we got the C&D all the same, with no chance to pitch our ideas...
Well, without looking at all the mechanics in play (since I haven't shared them), DeStefano says, from the pictures I have, that this is "stunningly similar" to Star Trek Fleet Captains.
There are already a few star trek table top games out there. So going forward my "competition" is;
Star Trek Fleet Captains - 1-6 player competitive space adventure where you command 2-4 spaceships, exploring new space tiles, encountering random phenomena, eventually making contact with your opponents and maybe fighting them. Cross-era.
Star Trek Frontiers - A re-theme of Mage Knight. You are also exploring space by adding to the map, going on quests, possibly fighting the borg... it is also semi competitive as you have a klingon side and a federation side. I haven't played this one, it appears to be set in the DS9 era.
Star Trek Attack Wing - A re-theme of Fantasy Flight Games' X-Wing focused purely on ship-to-ship combat. It feels more like ships trying to be starfighters, and it focuses predominantly on fighting. It is also poorly balanced and poorly made.
See, Trek captains is different in some of the details compared to those other games. You don't explore the map, it's already in place. You don't draft crew or have a deck of one-shot power cards- you start with a staffed ship and go from there. It's not across all-eras, you're definitively playing in the single TMP era.
The original plan was, once I had a completed prototype (graphics and all), to begin making those pitches to the license holders to say, "This is what I have, give it a try," then talk about where I wanted to take it, and see if they were interested.
But now I'm not sure what to do. I did want to gave gameplay polished before building a full-graphics demo, but I also don't want to be wasting more time on a venture that's going to dead-end. I'm very passionate about this and I'm willing to put in the work, but not if it's going to come to nothing.
Well, while the fate of the game is up in the air I decided on a whim to model out some early 2360s models. These would be used in a potential TNG era core set and expansion boxes.
Nebula's missing her expansion pod, but at least the basic hull is there. Still need to do Ambassador and Niagara, but at least most of the fleet is done.
Nebula's missing her expansion pod, but at least the basic hull is there. Still need to do Ambassador and Niagara, but at least most of the fleet is done.
