1960's and risqué clothes?

[Nakita Akita]

I don’t think I’m missing the points, I’m just focused more on the whole uproar over the Super Bowl halftime show. Every one of my Latino friends loved it. Every one of my female Latino friends were empowered by them. Yet most of the white American women who are commenting on The Facebook are throwing out words like “half-naked,” “objectified” and “offensive.” Maybe it’s a culture thing, because if you watch any Latino dancers – hell, any Spanish TV shows – sexuality plays a huge part. For men and woman. They reek of sexual and physical confidence. Salsa dancing is both erotic and entertaining.

Scantily clad women are accepted by society more readily than men, and I get that. Watch any news program. Female legs for days, men in suits. No argument. But I also feel undressed men make America nervous. Exposed women = sexually provocative. Exposed men = dirty (or maybe it’s homophobia judging by my brother-in-law’s reaction).

Gene Roddenberry tried to level the playing field in TNG by objectifying both men and women, but it seems people couldn’t handle men in a skant or barely dressed. That went by the wayside when Gene stepped down when his health failed. After that, it was cat suits for the women but two piece baggy uniforms for the men. You don’t like the mini’s on TOS? Blame Grace Lee Whitney, she asked for the legs and she got it. Roddenberry’s concept was baggy unisex uniforms. Although, I’m sure he would have gotten around to it…

I don’t watch sports. Other than religion and politics, nothing bores me more. But I do go to the gym. Every day, I see men in tee shirts and baggy knee length shorts. Women are in sports bras and VERY tight leggings. Or VERY short shorts. Nobody is requiring women to dress like this. It’s a choice. Sure, some guys wear tank tops. I do too, because holy crap, I lost 120 pounds and work out and I feel confident. I am assuming the women at my gym also feel confident (because nobody like a gym creeper). I’ve only seen volleyball on my local beaches. Women in bikinis and men in trunks. It’s the beach. Nobody cares. Tennis? Okay, yes, there’s a totally different dress code. I’m not a woman, so I can’t comment on whether or not it’s offensive or demeaning or anything like that.

I only used the super bowl as a recent easily Googled example. I didn't watch even one second of any of it.
My premise is that women think that they have to, and are expected to wear their tight body baring 'uniforms'. You see it at your own gym.
I thought, as an ineligible end 9 year old, upset at that age by the TOS women wearing next to nothing and we are supposed to pretend they are empowered by it. But men can wear baggy jumpsuits and are empowered.
Why is nudity or nearly so, good only on women?
I went to a gym about two years ago for some strength training for an injury, I was totally unaware that I was supposed to wear spandex. I just showed up in sweatpants and big tee shirts. I had no problems completing a full range of motion!

My lesbian, "Mexican" friend said that the women in the half time show were hot.

When are women going to be strong enough to not feel
Like they have to show off their bodies to be........
It's sad.

 

[UssGlenn]

When are women going to be strong enough to not feel
Like they have to show off their bodies to be........
It's sad.

People are proud of anything they put lots of work into, be it a complete collection of comic books or 6 pack abs. And I'm sure Shakira and Jennifer Lopez have put lots of work into staying fit.

 

[Armus]

And I'm sure Jennifer Lopez have put lots of work into staying fit.

I'd say that's a logical assumption.

 

[M'Sharak]

...

I see women in sports today, it makes me sad. I remember quite a few years ago, some dumb woman after her team win the soccer championship, pulling off her jersey and running around. She was from the USA,
It was the stupidest thing I had seen in my life and was belittling to all female athletes everywhere.

It wasn't belittling at all.*

But the bolded portions of your comment above sure are.



* As has already been pointed out, Brandi Chastain's post-win celebration was no different than what players on men's teams had already been doing for decades. It's a traditional act for a member of the winning team, if you will.

If you're OK with that when a man does it, but not OK when it's a woman, then you may wish to take some time to examine why your belief holds to a double standard.

Or was it the appearance of the previously-not-visible sports bra which you found so bothersome? If so, again: examine that response. Ask yourself why.

 

[XCV330]

When are women going to be strong enough to not feel
Like they have to show off their bodies to be........
It's sad.

When are people going to stop feeling the need to shame an entertainer like Shakira for being fit and attractive?

 

[Nakita Akita]

It wasn't belittling at all.*

But the bolded portions of your comment above sure are.



* As has already been pointed out, Brandi Chastain's post-win celebration was no different than what players on men's teams had already been doing for decades. It's a traditional act for a member of the winning team, if you will.

If you're OK with that when a man does it, but not OK when it's a woman, then you may wish to take some time to examine why your belief holds to a double standard.

Or was it the appearance of the previously-not-visible sports bra which you found so bothersome? If so, again: examine that response. Ask yourself why.

I think it's stupid if a man did it too.
I guess I don't see the correlation between winning a game and pulling off one's clothes.
I've won numerous times at various sports and never ince felt compelled to disrobe.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I'm not a woman, but I am a former obese man. I was over 312 pounds at my heaviest at 5'11". I felt like I was always judged by my weight. I'd walk in a meeting and feel like "everyone is looking at the fat guy." I wanted to not be seen at all.

I changed all that in 2014. I lost 120 pounds and after that started working out to get fit. Last year, at 51 years old, I wore my first Batman costume as an adult. Form fitting. I - felt - GREAT! Not just fit, but powerful. EMPOWERED. Like nothing could stop me. I thought back to interviews with actors who were able to get into these super hero suits and all felt the same way. Men and women who I considered perfectly attractive felt POWERFUL wearing certain attire.

Why do we feel less valued otherwise? I blame the media and Hollywood. I'm just as smart, just as nice, just as generous as before. I'm also just as much as a jerk as before too. The only thing that changed was my body and the confidence that went into it. Sure, you see it a lot more with women, but men also feel it. Maybe it's not quite the same thing, I can't say, but I know that we all react to what society feeds us in our own way.

 

[Nakita Akita]

When are people going to stop feeling the need to shame an entertainer like Shakira for being fit and attractive?

Point missed.
I think the women from TOS to whoever was in the Super Bowl show look fantastic.
But we don't expect say, Brett Young to wear an out fit like the two singers from the super bowl.

Everyone is missing the point.
There is a double standard. Women are supposed to be seen or obscene and not heard. And it still goes on today.
And the sad part is that they STILL like it and do it on purpose.
To themselves.
They, in our supposed enlightened age,
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
Want it both was. They choose to be objectified then they expect to be taken seriously. It's a joke. They are jokes.
Not just the super bowl crew, I mean all of them that think they need to show off their bodies.

 

[Spot261]

I only used the super bowl as a recent easily Googled example. I didn't watch even one second of any of it.
My premise is that women think that they have to, and are expected to wear their tight body baring 'uniforms'. You see it at your own gym.
I thought, as an ineligible end 9 year old, upset at that age by the TOS women wearing next to nothing and we are supposed to pretend they are empowered by it. But men can wear baggy jumpsuits and are empowered.
Why is nudity or nearly so, good only on women?
I went to a gym about two years ago for some strength training for an injury, I was totally unaware that I was supposed to wear spandex. I just showed up in sweatpants and big tee shirts. I had no problems completing a full range of motion!

My lesbian, "Mexican" friend said that the women in the half time show were hot.

When are women going to be strong enough to not feel
Like they have to show off their bodies to be........
It's sad.

This.

The idea that Star Trek showing women in scantily clad clothes was driving some social move towards empowerment is revisionism at best, outright nonsense at worst. Roddenberry in no way set out to change the world, he set out to make money and was well aware that the changing climate would allow him to push the boundaries of TV making where it came to selling on the basis of sex. That's it.

Using someone else's sexuality to make a profit.

Empowerment means choice. A man instructing a woman to wear very little to make money from her image being consumed by a paying public is precisely the opposite of that. A woman feeling somehow out of place because she chooses not to conform to norms such as wearing skin hugging lycra in a gym is hardly empowered, she's still being controlled by the expectations of others and absolutely that image is one encouraged by men at all levels, from within the fashion industry to those observing and offering implied disapproval to women who do not meet those expectations.

Wearing lycra because it's practical or because you like the image is a long way from feeling it's the done thing.

Although I'm a bit confused about there being a "half time show" in a gym strength training session

 

[STEPhon IT]

But did any of the women wear anything like Scotty or Spock wore?
I think I may have seen one woman in the background wearing pants, or something like that.
The uniforms for the women were very impractical. I remember even noticing and thinking and saying that when I was nine years old.
I think it's just that women are objectified, and seem to want to be, for the most part.
Today is no different than whenever.
Sad.

I would have a problem with the outfit if a woman was singled out to wear the tunic dress or a "Mirror Mirror" 2 piece, something I didn't like on Star Trek: Voyager and ENT with Jeri Ryan and Jolene Blalock where these actresses had to wear those outfits while the other women didn't, but women on TOS wore similar outfits which stated it was a standard uniform code.

As for objectification, some people love being themselves and express it whatever way it suits them; I want for everyone to have a choice, and being sexy is in the eyes of the beholder. I hate the unisex outfits from modern Trek and should at least attempt to design an outfit for women, like Troi before "Chain of Command" or something she wore in "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things...", it wouldn't be too bad to look at TOS to get some ideas to be inspired to create some well formed outfits for women.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I'm not a woman, but I am a former obese man. I was over 312 pounds at my heaviest at 5'11". I felt like I was always judged by my weight. I'd walk in a meeting and feel like "everyone is looking at the fat guy." I wanted to not be seen at all.

I changed all that in 2014. I lost 120 pounds and after that started working out to get fit. Last year, at 51 years old, I wore my first Batman costume as an adult. Form fitting. I - felt - GREAT! Not just fit, but powerful. EMPOWERED. Like nothing could stop me. I thought back to interviews with actors who were able to get into these super hero suits and all felt the same way. Men and women who I considered perfectly attractive felt POWERFUL wearing certain attire.

Why do we feel less valued otherwise? I blame the media and Hollywood. I'm just as smart, just as nice, just as generous as before. I'm also just as much as a jerk as before too. The only thing that changed was my body and the confidence that went into it. Sure, you see it a lot more with women, but men also feel it. Maybe it's not quite the same thing, I can't say, but I know that we all react to what society feeds us in our own way.

Yes, it's what we are fed.
And that is sad.
Health wise your previous weight was most likely not good for you. And it's great that you lost the weight.
But you should have never had to feel that way. That is the horrible part.
But amplify how you felt about ten times, and I think you might feel close to as bad a woman might feel.
I'm not over weight, so I might be off there and of course I don't know how everyone sees themselves.
But anyone who thinks women are objectifying themselves is not paying any attention at all.

 

[XCV330]

A small subset of an American population will dominate a narrative that being attractive somehow diminishes or unlevels a playing field. Maybe in a few years we'll have Ugly Positivity and models will be picked the numbers of hairs growing out of a facial mole. The rest of the world will continue to appreciate beautiful people. The mini skirts were too high and Kirk lost way too many shirts. It was the 60s. Big deal. It helped keep the show on the air.

 

[UssGlenn]

hate the unisex outfits from modern Trek and should at least attempt to design an outfit for women

They could at least give them a skirt variant like Uhura in the Movies (and the modern military, for that matter).

As for body-shaming on one hand and objectification on the other, that's the result of millions of years of evolutionary pressure, so it's not going away any time soon.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I would have a problem with the outfit if a woman was singled out to wear the tunic dress or a "Mirror Mirror" 2 piece, something I didn't like on Star Trek: Voyager and ENT with Jeri Ryan and Jolene Blalock where these actresses had to wear those outfits while the other women didn't, but women on TOS wore similar outfits which stated it was a standard uniform code.

As for objectification, some people love being themselves and express it whatever way it suits them; I want for everyone to have a choice, and being sexy is in the eyes of the beholder. I hate the unisex outfits from modern Trek and should at least attempt to design an outfit for women, like Troi before "Chain of Command" or something she wore in "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things...", it wouldn't be too bad to look at TOS to get some ideas to be inspired to create some well formed outfits for women.

I was in the US army.
We had classes of uniforms.
The work uniforms, for work
Or in the field etc. like you see in movies, the camouflage uniforms. They were all the same, men's and women's. Unisex
The class B uniforms were different.
The women had a skirt option or pants.
Some people might not even have been able to notice the difference between the man' or woman's shirt. The men's pants had pockets, but they weren't allowed to carry anything that looked bulky or noticeable in the pockets.
It's called s uniform for a reason.

I finally managed to stay awake for an episode of Voyager. It was one about '7 of 9'.
She's supposed to be a crew member but was wearing an outfit that seemed to be brown velour.
I did a double take as she first shoes up.
I thought it was a naked woman.
I think I dozed off. I wasn't sure what was going on. I didn't think she was even a member of the crew but then the captain was telling the Alien of the week that she was. But she doesn't wear a uniform, because well, it's not uniform.
But she is very thin with ginormous knockers, so there ya go.

 

[Ssosmcin]

DS9, Voyager and Enterprise at least - for the Starfleet people - seemed to get it right. Jumpsuits for all (until the movie uniforms took over DS9 and the women got the form fitting uniforms again). The non-starfleet women got catsuits. But T'Pol, even when she joined up, didn't get a Starfleet Uniform.

 

[XCV330]

DS9, Voyager and Enterprise at least - for the Starfleet people - seemed to get it right. Jumpsuits for all (until the movie uniforms took over DS9 and the women got the form fitting uniforms again). The non-starfleet women got catsuits. But T'Pol, even when she joined up, didn't get a Starfleet Uniform.

The way Blalock was treated during Enterprise, is worthy of its own thread, and I think there is one. There wasn't anything particularly wrong with her Vulcan uniform in the first two seasons, at least when taken into account past trek fashions, but the hot fuscia catsuit at the end was inexcusable. It was just a desperation move to keep a few people tuning in.

 

[UssGlenn]

I didn't think she was even a member of the crew but then the captain was telling the Alien of the week that she was. But she doesn't wear a uniform, because well, it's not uniform.

As with Neelix and Kes, they make a distinction between being a member of the crew and being in Starfleet.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Strange how TV has evolved and progressed in choices for women like Star Trek of the 60's

They could at least give them a skirt variant like Uhura in the Movies (and the modern military, for that matter).

As for body-shaming on one hand and objectification on the other, that's the result of millions of years of evolutionary pressure, so it's not going away any time soon.

Agreed and they still can, the future is bright.

As for the other comment, the whole objectified subject matter is not on me, I actually loved the designs created by Bill Theiss for women, and I didn't mind women wearing those tunic dresses as long as all of the women wore them and have other options which there were.

 

[Spot261]

I didn't mind women wearing those tunic dresses as long as all of the women wore them and have other options which there were.

And if they didn't?

Or if that choice NOT to wear them required a fight against an overbearing male who was every bit as controlling as a conservative society which punished freedom of expression?

 

[BK613]

Mmm, sand, who-da-thunk?
Last time I saw men's beach volleyball, I saw them in long shorts and tank tops.
Not string bikini bottoms and tiny, what, maybe cut off tank tops.
Maybe I watched the wrong channel.
Why does sand get attached to women and not men?
I think this is s question for scientists.

Way to miss the point. They have a choice and they are choosing the "two-piece" because they want to. Not because they must. Surely, that choice is to be respected because I would think that the right to choose would a bedrock foundation to feminism.