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10 reasons why TOS is better than TNG

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TOS can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

On the other hand, something like TNG's "Masks" seemed less like science fiction, and more like someone's indulgence in storytelling.

TNG had its moments but I'd give the edge to TOS in sci fi.
 
TOS can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

I disagree. When it came to really cerebral sci fi episodes TNG couldn't be beat. The Measure of a Man, The Drumhead, Frame of Mind, I Borg, and The First Duty to name several.

And I think that one of TNG's biggest strengths is that it succeeded as both a cerebral sci fi series and a drama (it is possible to be both). Frankly, I think the "cerebral" TOS episodes were often times boring, and practically all of their attempts at "drama" were failures because you had a cast of uninteresting characters that hardly had any chemistry with one another. It sounds harsh, but that's my honest opinion.
 
I've heard this argument before, and I don't get it. What specifically makes most of the stories on Star Trek: The Next Generation "Non-SciFi" stories in your estimation?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a sci-fi show deal in strict grounded reality from time to time.....regardless of the specific show. I doubt TOS never got to do it, but the only TNG show that may qualify under this distinction may be the fourth-season opener in which Picard is reunited with his relatives after his de-Borging. If memory serves, he had quite an emotional breakdown.

Then there was that fantastic DS9 episode in which Avery Brooks was a frustrated sci-fi writer.....but the approach of the episode was quite realistic and moving to me.
 
TOS can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

On the other hand, something like TNG's "Masks" seemed less like science fiction, and more like someone's indulgence in storytelling.

TNG had its moments but I'd give the edge to TOS in sci fi.

TNG can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

On the other hand, something like TOS's "Spectre of the Gun" seemed less like science fiction, and more like someone's indulgence in storytelling.

TOS had its moments but I'd give the edge to TNG in sci fi.
 
TOS can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

On the other hand, something like TNG's "Masks" seemed less like science fiction, and more like someone's indulgence in storytelling.

TNG had its moments but I'd give the edge to TOS in sci fi.

TNG can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

On the other hand, something like TOS's "Spectre of the Gun" seemed less like science fiction, and more like someone's indulgence in storytelling.

TOS had its moments but I'd give the edge to TNG in sci fi.

:bolian:
 
Also, TOS only had 3 seasons so they didn't have enough time to go into "soap opera" style stories.
Even if it had run 10 years is wouldn't have evolved into "soap opera" style stories.


yeah, it just wasn't the style of the show and it wasn't the era for that kind of storytelling in TV sci-fi.

I think TOS would have benefited from soap opera style stories. In TNG, it was in those kinds of episodes that a lot of the character development took place, especially for Picard. Family, The Inner Light, and Tapestry are some of the best examples of this, and coincidentally they are also three of my favorite TNG episodes ever. I thought TNG handled character drama really well.
 
TNG can't be beat in sci fi. It was more cerebral, 'makes you think', type of sci fi.

On the other hand, something like TOS's "Spectre of the Gun" seemed less like science fiction, and more like someone's indulgence in storytelling.

TOS had its moments but I'd give the edge to TNG in sci fi.

Wow, this is funny, because "Spectre of the Gun" was what I was going to use as an example.

There's a scene where Chekov is shot and killed by one of the villains. Up until then everyone had assumed he was dead.

Then Spock discovers that it is all an illusion:

The team fears for their lives, but Mr. Spock explains his realization. He notes that the gas bomb should have worked according to physical laws. Thus when it failed, the physical laws were disregarded and when that happens, reality does not exist. In short, Spock surmises that this whole scenario is not real, but actually an elaborate illusion occurring in the minds of the crew that is only as real as their minds accept it to be.

Spock's will is so strong, he KNOWS nothing can harm him, but the other crew members aren't as sure and any doubt will become deadly because they will take any shots to be real.

So Spock has to mindmeld to erase any doubts about the bullets harming them.

Just hearing Spock explain it, gives it a sci fi vibe.

This, is true sci fi. Classic sci fi.

I think it's because TOS was closer to that time--where writers really had to use their imagination more than rely on special effects and such.

Now compare that to a "Fistful of Datas", and see which one comes out on top :rommie:
 
Sorry, Spectre of The Gun doesn't have the line "Vamoose ya little varmint!".

Gonna have to hand it to TNG on that one.
 
I liked TOS more becuase it was more fun.

And this, my friends, sums it up for me perfectly. I love both TOS and TNG, but TOS has greater rerun value for me because it's a lot of fun (I also love the Irwin Allen TV shows, so there ya go). I enjoy the stylistic sets and costumes and acting of the original series. Both shows have their weaknesses and strengths, but my preference is for the original series.

Anyway, comparing TOS to TNG is like comparing Sean Connery to Roger Moore as James Bond. You may prefer one over the other, but Connery was the first the most iconic. The rest always have to live up to the standard he set. TOS, like Connery, was great from the first minute (but got tired as it went on). TNG, like Roger Moore, needed time to find its footing and improved over the years. And without TOS being so amazingly good to so many people who rewatched the same episodes over and over for 20 years, there would have been no TNG.

Both shows were great, but there's one difference that's important to me: when TOS was bad, it was still entertaining. There was, at the very least, something to laugh at (And the Children Shall Lead, The Way to Eden). When TNG was bad, it was like visual Sominex. Nothing could put me to sleep faster than a bad episode of TNG (Imaginary Friend, Emergence, Cost of Living). So that , plus rerun value, separate the two. Otherwise, great shows, both.
 
What specifically makes most of the stories on Star Trek: The Next Generation "Non-SciFi" stories in your estimation?

Most of the TNG stories have nothing to do with exploring new ideas, which is the essence of SciFi. Heck, the opening credits say they are going to "explore new life," but how often did they meet any aliens who are actually based on any new idea?

Most of TNG's stories are just soap opera/political drama-style regurgitations of cliche human problems that occur in the real world. For the most part, the aliens on TNG might as well be humans, because if they were, it would make no difference to the story.

When they are not regurgitating real-life human problems, they instead present filler about extremely-human-like aliens of the week and/or space disease taking over the ship. Or holodeck filler that regurgitates detective book/film and Western cliches and/or Mark Twain stories, etc. Where's the SciFi in that?

TOS also had stories about the ship being taken over, but unlike TNG's, TOS's were done in original and creative ways fitting for the SciFi genre, like with the Nomad droid or Salt Vampire, etc.

TOS didn't even have that much "internal conflict", it was always their reaction to how to deal with external situations that led to conflict. It wasn't like they just were always at each others' throats when they weren't on missions.

TNG was more or less the same.

Whether there was a lot of internal conflict when "they aren't on missions" is a moot point, because over 90% of the screen-time deals with mission-related problems.

TNG also spends that vast majority of its screen-time dealing with mission-related problems, during which the characters recite bland, generic and interchangeable dialogue wherein they all agree with each other.

In contrast, the TOS characters fight with each other, using unique speech patterns with non-interchangeable dialogue, which is far more entertaining and artistically interesting than TNG's version.

TOS only had three central characters to focus each story on, and those same three characters were also a Freudian Trio (Id, Ego, Superego). It 's easier to write episodes only about those three when they also functionally work as one character unit, opposed to TNG's more ensemble based cast.

TOS is much harder to write for, because each of those three characters makes a unique and useful contribution to the show.

On TNG, they can just write blurbs of dialogue, divide it up into random portions, then randomly dole those portions out to any character. That is very easy to write.

On TNG, it rarely matters who they give the dialogue to, because most of the characters on the bridge serve no useful function there, and the comments/functions they perform are interchangable with other characters who are also on the bridge at the same time. I.e. Wesley, Riker, Picard (Picard is a redundant character if Riker is on the bridge, and vice versa) Worf, Troi, etc.

To be a successful ensemble, the TNG writers would have to make each character serve a unique and necessary purpose, as do the characters on TOS. As it stands, the TNG ensemble is tantamount to one or two characters, who have their dialogues randomly dispersed amongst 6-8 redundant bodies.

In other words, the number of different names and bodies gives TNG the superficial appearance of being an ensemble, but the lack of a unique identity & personality & function among each of those characters means that they do not actually do what a properly-written ensemble does.
 
Most of the TNG stories have nothing to do with exploring new ideas, which is the essence of SciFi. Heck, the opening credits say they are going to "explore new life," but how often did they meet any aliens who are actually based on any new idea?

About as much as TOS, because they didn't follow the "New Worlds and new explorations" thing any better.

Most of TNG's stories are just soap opera/political drama-style regurgitations of cliche human problems that occur in the real world. For the most part, the aliens on TNG might as well be humans, because if they were, it would make no difference to the story.
Same with TOS.

When they are not regurgitating real-life human problems, they instead present filler about extremely-human-like aliens of the week and/or space disease taking over the ship. Or holodeck filler that regurgitates detective book/film and Western cliches and/or Mark Twain stories, etc. Where's the SciFi in that?
Same as TOS.

TOS also had stories about the ship being taken over, but unlike TNG's, TOS's were done in original and creative ways fitting for the SciFi genre, like with the Nomad droid or Salt Vampire, etc.
Rogue robots had been done for a LOOONG time by then, and the Salt Vampire was just a classical monster story set in space.

Whether there was a lot of internal conflict when "they aren't on missions" is a moot point, because over 90% of the screen-time deals with mission-related problems.
Good thing too, because seeing episodes wherein the conflict came from McCoy's racism and Spock's combine racism and hypocrisy would've been excruciating.

TNG also spends that vast majority of its screen-time dealing with mission-related problems, during which the characters recite bland, generic and interchangeable dialogue wherein they all agree with each other.
Yes yes yes, we all know who you can't stand it when the crew aren't acting like petty, retarded children who can't tie their shoelaces without bickering.

In contrast, the TOS characters fight with each other, using unique speech patterns with non-interchangeable dialogue, which is far more entertaining and artistically interesting than TNG's version.
It was almost always just McCoy being an over-emotional racist, or just overly emotional, Spock being a racist and hypocrite in return when he wasn't using "logic" and Kirk having to mediate.

TOS is much harder to write for, because each of those three characters makes a unique and useful contribution to the show.
Nope.

On TNG, they can just write blurbs of dialogue, divide it up into random portions, then randomly dole those portions out to any character. That is very easy to write.
With TOS, it's McCoy who is the emotional one, Spock the logical one and Kirk the mediator.

On TNG, it rarely matters who they give the dialogue to, because most of the characters on the bridge serve no useful function there, and the comments/functions they perform are interchangable with other characters who are also on the bridge at the same time.
The difference between having only 3 important characters who are the 3 Freud Archetypes, and an ensemble. You can't expect the latter to be exactly like the former.

To be a successful ensemble, the TNG writers would have to make each character serve a unique and necessary purpose, as do the characters on TOS.
Why am I justifying this comment with a response?
 
About as much as TOS, because they didn't follow the "New Worlds and new explorations" thing any better.
Actually TOS did, there were a long series of previously unknown civilizations. there were also civilizations that were known to the characters on the show, but whom the viewing audience never heard of.

We saw a new culture in Amok Time, the Vulcans (Spock by himself wasn't a "culture"), By Journey to Babel, the Vulcans were no long new. They certainly weren't by TNG.

Just as the Bajorians were new on TNG, but not on DS9, even though we learn even more about them on DS9.

A greater percentage of TOS episodes were new civilizations than TNG.

")
 
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TOS is much harder to write for, because each of those three characters makes a unique and useful contribution to the show.

On TNG, they can just write blurbs of dialogue, divide it up into random portions, then randomly dole those portions out to any character. That is very easy to write.

This statement doesn't make sense to me and doesn't hold up: the idea that a group of a very few "unique" characters are difficult to write for, as opposed to writing for a larger group of characters. On the contrary- as a writer- if you know the characters well and you only have three voices to do the talking and actions it is more obvious who is going to do what. It is a simpler equation. Fewer variables.
 
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Both shows were great, but there's one difference that's important to me: when TOS was bad, it was still entertaining. There was, at the very least, something to laugh at (And the Children Shall Lead, The Way to Eden). When TNG was bad, it was like visual Sominex. .....


This is very true for me, too. Maybe it is a nostalgia effect- I grew up watching TOS in the 60s. I can't turn off "Spock's Brain" or "The Way to Eden" because it is like listening to an old family tape of my great uncle telling his old, bad jokes. There is a fondness there. On the other hand, I can't tell you how many times I have turned off certain TNG reruns that I remembered/considered to be boring the first or second time around. .....So I could completely understand someone whose childhood was in the 80s and 90s as not having any particular fondness for "Spock's Brain" and to consider it as too much 1960s corniness.

Maybe the fact that there are fewer episodes makes each TOS more special.

Star Trek, Wild Wild West, Man from U.N.C.L.E....... all with the same type of fight sequences and treatment of the female guest star of the week. Those shows are time capsules from the era.

And as I have said before, I appreciate TOS AND TNG "and the rest" (as they used to sing in the "Gilligan's Island" theme) of the series, too.
 
TNG is the most successful Trek series in the entire franchise,most polls on startrek.com are won by TNG/picard... TNG Recreated the universe and added the Cardassians,Ferengi,Borg...Simply an amazing work of art that helped DS9 and VoY succeed.
TOS was just a sexist and boring show i cant remeber any girls actualy doing something special other then acting stupid and being eye candy.

For me as a women i would go with TNG since it was the first step for feminism and it reach its max with VOY.
 
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