10 reasons why TOS is better than TNG

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Foxhot, Feb 19, 2012.

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  1. Foxhot

    Foxhot Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Moderators and posters: This thread was originally begun in TOS, since the emphasis was why TOS was considered better. 24 hours later , it was closed after I rebutted a TNG supporter's rebuttal. T'Bonz recommended I restart it here, so here it is in the original posting. I apologize for the TNG supporter's harsh reactions which led to the closing, and I hope we all have better luck this time enjoying each other's feedback. So.....here we go again.:borg:




    For all who put in their two cents worth, please give your particular ten reasons why the Original Series has vastly less suckage than the Next Regurgitation Generation. Or, if you are misguided or born after 1975, tell us why you feel it is TNG which is superior to TOS. Here are my chief ten reasons TOS is king.

    1. No Troi. Nuff said.

    2. No teenage regulars (though Wesley seemed to inherit an offshoot of the dorky kids' costumes from TOS).

    3. When Kirk smirks, he has his reasons. When Riker smirks, it's almost always at Picard, and seems kind of....ah....um...

    4. Consistently dangerously body count and crew kill ratio of 16 percent (or 60 out of 430 or so).

    5. Doesn't fill valuable minutes of script with totally useless technobabble. The terms on TOS were valid and understandable.

    6. No ''way teams.'' I call them way teams because Picard pronounces it so. TOS has ''parties'', and they're so hot and heavy you may not even survive them.

    7. Uhura and Scotty. No TNG supporting characters can truly compare to them.

    8. No cutesy names like Worf or Data. (Klingons never had names ending in ''f'' until Worf. It's almost like they wanted to make him sound cuddly).

    9. No children or nurseries were permanent occupants on the ENTERPRISE. So there was no need to slow down the action on their account or disengage the saucer section.

    10. Most importantly, Kirk didn't surrender his ship ten minutes into his first episode/mission to a soap opera actor in a funny hat.

    Now for the rest of you.:vulcan:
     
  2. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And no other series has Davy Jones/Chekhov. This needs replaced: Star Trek has Chapel. A better world doesn't mean you get the boy friend you want. Star Trek has a much more mature idea of "Utopia" than the other series.

    Ageist. This needs replaced: Star Trek has an older person, Dr. McCoy, showing that you don't turn useless and ugly.

    Homophobic. This needs replaced: Star Trek is no more homophobic than the rest.

    Star Trek is better because it has a high casualty rate or TNG is worse because it has a high casualty rate? Star Trek inspired the phrase "red shirt," so we don't want to go here. This needs total replacement: Star Trek is better because Spock doesn't flatter humanity by wanting to be human.

    If only. The term "dilithium" is invalid and incomprehensible. This needs replaced: Star Trek is better because they did the best they could to take into account science as then understood without gee whizzery BS, the most notable example being the design of the Enterprise.

    The English are imperialist scum (;)) but the accents are not objectionable. This needs totally replaced: Star Trek was better because the military hierarchy wasn't run like a Hollywood producer running his office.

    Chapel, Chekhov and Kevin O'Reilly. This needs totally replaced: Star Trek is better because every episode with the evil Klingon menace ended with making peace, or, in the case of A Private Little War, ended with the refusal to intervene directly.

    Sorry, Uhura is a cutesy name. Not knowing this doesn't change that. This needs totally replaced: Star Trek is better because its Klingons are not incarnations of the honor of militarism but the embodiments of its vileness.

    Needs to be replaced: Star Trek didn't had very little mindless tripe about ship to ship combat or space war or borders in vacuum etc ad nauseam.

    Needs to be replaced: Star Trek didn't have Kirk justifying the existence of humanity to a God figure on his first mission, much less hobnobbing with him on a semiregular basis.

    Sorrry, but the general attitude that Star Trek (and it is Star Trek, not TOS:rolleyes:) is better because it's older or because Kirk is Bond in Space pretty much sucks. Even when aimed at TNG which I never could watch because I would spend all my time wondering why Data wants to be human.
     
  3. RedShirtNoob

    RedShirtNoob Ensign Red Shirt

    Reminds me of...

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9oD_xl8mI[/yt]

    :lol:
     
  4. Count Zero

    Count Zero No nation but procrastination Moderator

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    :lol: Hilarious video.
    For what it's worth, I really find Patrick Stewart's acting in that La Cage aux Folles remake very impressive.
     
  5. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "Jeffrey" was a remake of La Cage aux Folles? I thought the Birdcage was the only remake of that.
     
  6. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Come on, TOS and TNG are from different eras. It's apples and oranges. If a new Trek show came out today, it would be very different from those two.

    They wouldn't dare have a character like McCoy on TNG (you know what I mean). Imagine Beverly calling Worf a Pepto-Bismol blooded werewolf , or the bridge crew laughing at Data's expense at the end of about every episode. I'm not gonna say which show is better. It's like changing employers. Dynamics and office culture differ. It doesn't mean one is better than other.
     
  7. Count Zero

    Count Zero No nation but procrastination Moderator

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    You're probably right, Anwar. I found there were strong similarities but it's been a while since I saw both films and there was a long gap between watching the two. So, the plots kind of merged together in my mind.
     
  8. Foxhot

    Foxhot Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ''Sorry, Uhura is a cutesy name. Not knowing this doesn't change that.''-----stj.

    If memory serves, Roddenberry named Uhura while adapting it from the term Uhuru. That's not to say Uhuru means freedom, though there may be a connection. To me, Worf still sounds like a plush toy, or a half-Smurf.

    ''They wouldn't dare have a character like McCoy on TNG (you know what I mean).''-----Finn.

    Doctor Pulaski, who was often disliked but not by me, was a pretty obvious attempt at a female Dr. McCoy. I don't remember the reasons for Gates McFadden's one-year dismissal, though Pulaski brought some needed conflict to TNG that Roddenberry seemed to want to avoid, crew-wise.

    I'm partial to Classic and it shows, but if you had Kirk, Spock and McCoy stuck on a three-person life raft, and one had to perish, I'd vote for Kirk every time. Not because he's the Captain....but because I prefer the other three more. (Plus Uhura.) Kirky can overdo the James Bond in space bit, it's true.
     
  9. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Really? What is this? On the playground in 4th Grade?

    It's kinda difficult to take a person or their criticisms that seriously when they resort to using "cutesy names" in their discussion. :rolleyes:
     
  10. AdmiralScreed

    AdmiralScreed Captain Captain

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    I personally thought Pulaski was a great character, and she developed more in one season than a lot of the TNG regulars developed in all seven seasons. She went from looking down on Data as just some android to admiring and respecting him as another individual. She was a very down to earth person who audiences could relate to.

    Also, take my comment about the TNG regulars not developing with a grain of salt. I still love them, and I think TNG blows TOS out of the water.
     
  11. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A few reasons why TNG is better than TOS:

    1. No "Spock's Brain". Nuff said.

    2. No "vicious" cuddly dogs with antennae & horns, nor little birdie-like aliens from Andromeda dancing on strings, nor
    any "Attack of the Fake Novelty Vomit" scenes.

    3. TNG: No silly 1960s fight scenes with opponents amazingly knocked out with a single goofy "Kirk-double-karate-chop to the shoulders" or flying kicks.

    4. Body counts were bad on TNG? Where does one think the term "Red Shirt" came from? (Also, no one on TNG was ever killed by a guy crawling around on the ground beneath a giant pizza suit.... )

    5. Geordi never miraculously fixed the engines using women's jewelery, like some engineers we know.
    "Capt'n.... ef ware gon get awee from these bloody Tholians, I em gon need a lassie's left ear ring, a brassiere, 'n two two coconuts in engineering reet awee!"

    .... I mean, Scotty is a Miracle Worker, but COME ON- he's no Professor Roy Hinkley!

    6. No "inexplicable lack of shuttlecraft". No one on TNG ever nearly froze to death on a planet because no one had yet gotten around to building any shuttle craft!

    7. Uhura sang once while a guy choked, and sang again which lead to her mind being erased (fortunately, McCoy was able to completely re-educate her in about 3 weeks...). Other than that, she wasn't given much to do besides show some thigh while she sat on the bridge. How can she compare to the development of characters like Geordi or Ro?

    8. No gang of grubby kids ever bonk-bonked Picard on the head!

    9. No wanna-be Monkee knock-off as a navagator who is known mainly for screaming and an inability to pronounce his "v's .

    10. Picard never got manipulated into thinking that he had outwitted an opponent (that was only toying with him the whole time), only then to be tricked into having a drink with Richie Cunningham's little brother and his puppet. (Drink up! Enjoy your poison!) (Also, Picard never let a woman totally get under his skin like Janice Lester did.....)

    11. "YAWN" Is Kirk talkin' yet another comuter to death?


    Actually, I LOVE TOS. This list is tongue-in-cheek, while acknowledging some "weaknesses" of TOS. I grew up watching it in its original run. I also really enjoy TNG. I see no need to "pick a king". Both were silly and horrible at times and both were amazing and thought-provoking at times.

    I simply resent someone implying that a person has to be either misguided or a "youngster" to like TNG just as well as TNG. Choosing better words would be better for a serious discussion. Or maybe this thread is all just a joke!
     
  12. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I find TNG to be a maturer, more interesting show. McCoy's casual racism really grinds my gears.
     
  13. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TOS' characters are more iconic, that's for sure. The proof of iconicity (if that's the word) is that they can be successfully recast with different actors - even Spock, which amazed me.

    Now envision the TNG cast being played by a new gang of younger actors, and assume the recasting is being done as well as can be expected. Data and Worf might come off okay. Picard would be unrecognizable, because he's not really much of a character other that what Stewart put into him. The rest are generic types. New actors might actually improve them, but that's not a credit to the characters.
     
  14. The Dominion

    The Dominion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And TOS didn't have Worf or Data.

    But there were still plenty of episodes with lots of generic children, having a single one who matured and had a personality wasn't really a bad idea in comparison.

    But you're comparing Kirk to Riker. Why not compare Kirk to Picard?

    Yeah, for TOS? Aliens? Send in the red shirts!

    You're thinking of Voyager.

    You're right, Picard was way more organized.

    Because TNG supporting characters have progressions?

    Tribbles

    But the old Enterprise couldn't disengage even if it wanted to.

    And Picard didn't kill two people with a transporter, or wear a poodle on his head.

    But seriously, I can't choose between either series, and Kirk is my favorite captain anyway. :)
     
  15. sevenstars

    sevenstars Captain Captain

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    1. Made in the 60s-- best decade ever.
    2. No Troi. Sorry yes, I agree.
    3. What happens in space, stays in space.
    4. If someone tries to steal Kirk's brain, he just shakes it off.
    5. Spock! Some Vulcan every week.
    6. Gorns. Hortas. Green Orion slave girls.
    7. Moral outrage. Prime Directive notwithstanding.
    8. No holodecks.
    9. No Q.
    10. It was Star Trek. You can't go home again.
     
  16. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    1. Yeah, Troi eventually improved. No one on TOS ever did that, huh?

    2. Too bad it had plenty of annoying kids anyway

    3. It saddens me if you're narrow-minded enough to let this bother you. Also laughing at the idea that he never smirks at McCoy or Spock.

    4. So...Kirk being a horrible commander who gets his crew slaughtered makes TOS a better show?

    5. Yeah, it fills minutes of script with heavy-handed moral "lessons" and verbal posturing.

    6. See #4

    7. Haha, what. Uhura is barely even a character in TOS. Answer the phone and act scared, that's all she does until the movies. Scotty is better, but there are plenty who compare. :)

    8. Worf...sounds "cuddly" to you? I honestly can't even process that.

    9. Except TNG ditched that notion (slowing down and seperating, not the families unfortunately) really early into the show anyway.

    10. ...right, so FIGHTING the alien with unlimited power would've been a better idea. :vulcan:
     
  17. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you OP. This list has really made me re-evaluate my opinion of TNG and TOS. Previously I had thought those two shows to be of equal quality. Your clever and humorous dissection and comparison has made me realize now that TNG is really an inferior copy of TOS.
     
  18. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    TOS was a victim of the sixties. It aged pretty badly.
    All types of subtle sexism. (Remember folks, women were not allowed to become Starships captain back then)

    It had short term memory syndrome- hardly any reoccurring characters, or no memory of previous adventures on the ship.

    The characters seemed to had have no relatives or lives outside the ship.

    It was basically Kirk and his past loves and that was it.

    But still, you can't beat that science fiction on that show.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Canon Warrior Premium Member

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    This, quite frankly, is bullshit. We see Kirk's brother and he is mentioned in another episode. We see Spock's parents and his fiance. We know of Tarses IV and the "little blond lab technician" and we know of the "stack of books with legs". We know that Spock had a romance with Leila Kolmani and we know that he had a "teddy bear". We see a former girlfriend of Chekov's.

    Honestly, for a ship dozens to thousands of light years away from the heart of the Federation, I found TOS handling of family to be far more believable than what we got with TNG.
     
  20. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I liked TOS more becuase it was more fun.
     
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