Arrow - Season 2

[Mage]

So if Amanda and Oliver were fighting dirty for ARGUS 4 and a half years before he "officially" got off the Island, maybe even before she was top dog there... This brings into question how Diggle "really" joined the Scoobie Gang.

Diggle may think it's an accident, but Oliver could have been manoeuvring him into his bosom for years before they met as far as Diggle knew.

Which is really, really, really Batman.

(Of course this raises the question about how innocent the acquisition of Felicity Smoke had been.)

Personally, I doubt this. Oliver started his quest in Starling City by wanting to kill the people in his father's booklet, a booklet he had before he ever met ARGUS. The only way I see ARGUS having anything to do with all of that, is if Oliver's father knew about ARGUS, and realized how things were going bad with the Undertaking, and wanted to meet with them at a remote location, or try and escape. The island was chosen as that location, and while en route, the Queen's Gambit was scuttled and Oliver stranded there. Perhaps the info in the booklet was ment for ARGUS, ARGUS realized Oliver was on the island and wanted the booklet with the info about the Undertaking.

Oliver, who has not been told about the Undertaking itself, only that the names in that booklet and his father are responsible for terrible things in Starling City, now vouches to fight that. He doesn't agree with ARGUS' way of doing things, and they maroon him on the island again, as punishment.



Yeah....... talk about fa fatched, huh??

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did I see a different final episode, or have you not seen the final episode?

Oliver gets off the island.

There's some brief gap.

He's in Hong Kong.

Naked.

Hench men take him to a limo.

He's partially dressed by this point.

Amanda Waller in the limo introduces herself and says that they have work to do.

That's the last thirty seconds of season 2.

Off the island.

Drafted into Argus.

With still three or four years left till the flashbacks meet up with the first episode where he fakes his rescue off the island.

You just have to ask yourself how long the island adventures that we have seen have taken so far, because unless there was a full year gap between season one and season two in the flash backs, Oliver can't have spent more than a couple months on the Island before he was taken to Hong Kong.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Flashbacks don't have to happen in chronological order, and besides, haven't you seen the final episode of season 2?

It's possible he only spent a few months on the island.

In fact, they've already shown them out of chronological order and shown flashbacks of other characters as well (although part of that was because the Ivo plot was relatively thin).

The debate isn't whether the flashbacks are on the island or off it, but if they do one year of flashbacks per year, whether they'll reach present day too quickly. My question is whether they plan to have the show last more than five years.

Personally, I doubt this. Oliver started his quest in Starling City by wanting to kill the people in his father's booklet, a booklet he had before he ever met ARGUS.

I still remember some quote in the first season that Oliver said about the book being verified. Diggle responded with "how could you find out anything while on an island" to which Oliver replies "I never said it was when I was on an island." I wish I remembered the exact quote but I remembered knowing even in the first season that he'd spend time off the island and I suspect the book will mark its reappearance.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

Did I see a different final episode, or have you not seen the final episode?

Oliver gets off the island.

There's some brief gap.

He's in Hong Kong.

Naked.

Hench men take him to a limo.

He's partially dressed by this point.

Amanda Waller in the limo introduces herself and says that they have work to do.

That's the last thirty seconds of season 2.

Off the island.

Drafted into Argus.

With still three or four years left till the flashbacks meet up with the first episode where he fakes his rescue off the island.

You just have to ask yourself how long the island adventures that we have seen have taken so far, because unless there was a full year gap between season one and season two in the flash backs, Oliver can't have spent more than a couple months on the Island before he was taken to Hong Kong.

In those flashbacks they referenced several times him having been on the island for over a year.

 

[Marc]

(Of course this raises the question about how innocent the acquisition of Felicity Smoke had been.)

Didn't Felicity come on the scene because Walter wanted her IT expertise in digging up something things on Moira and uncovered the warehouse with the wreck of the Queen's Gambit?

(plus she was originally intended only for a few episodes but was on those characters who gets added because the audience takes to them).

 

[Agent Richard07]

The debate isn't whether the flashbacks are on the island or off it, but if they do one year of flashbacks per year, whether they'll reach present day too quickly. My question is whether they plan to have the show last more than five years.

Only time will tell, but look what happened to Smallville and Supernatural, two other shows that were supposed to last five years. So far, it looks like Arrow is headed down that path.

 

[cylkoth]

(Of course this raises the question about how innocent the acquisition of Felicity Smoke had been.)

Didn't Felicity come on the scene because Walter wanted her IT expertise in digging up something things on Moira and uncovered the warehouse with the wreck of the Queen's Gambit?

(plus she was originally intended only for a few episodes but was on those characters who gets added because the audience takes to them).

Felicity appeared as early as S1 Episode 3, when Oliver needed Deadshot's laptop hard drive recovered, after it had been shot up. It was later when Walter asked her to investigate the warehouse where Moira stashed the Queen's Gambit.

As for the flashback issue, should the series go beyond 5 seasons, there's still ample room for flashbacks to Ollie's 'arrival' in Starling. It's my personal feeling that his official homecoming wasn't the first time he'd been back. Showing him setting up the foundry, getting the lay of the land, etc.

 

[Mage]

Did I see a different final episode, or have you not seen the final episode?

Oliver gets off the island.

There's some brief gap.

He's in Hong Kong.

Naked.

Hench men take him to a limo.

He's partially dressed by this point.

Amanda Waller in the limo introduces herself and says that they have work to do.

That's the last thirty seconds of season 2.

Off the island.

Drafted into Argus.

With still three or four years left till the flashbacks meet up with the first episode where he fakes his rescue off the island.

You just have to ask yourself how long the island adventures that we have seen have taken so far, because unless there was a full year gap between season one and season two in the flash backs, Oliver can't have spent more than a couple months on the Island before he was taken to Hong Kong.

I have seen that, and it was stated clearly in other flashbacks he has been on the island for a year now. So yes, I know he is off the island right now, and that ARGUS is involved. That's what I was talking about. Might not have been clear enough.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

(Of course this raises the question about how innocent the acquisition of Felicity Smoke had been.)

Didn't Felicity come on the scene because Walter wanted her IT expertise in digging up something things on Moira and uncovered the warehouse with the wreck of the Queen's Gambit?

(plus she was originally intended only for a few episodes but was on those characters who gets added because the audience takes to them).

Felicity appeared as early as S1 Episode 3, when Oliver needed Deadshot's laptop hard drive recovered, after it had been shot up. It was later when Walter asked her to investigate the warehouse where Moira stashed the Queen's Gambit.

As for the flashback issue, should the series go beyond 5 seasons, there's still ample room for flashbacks to Ollie's 'arrival' in Starling. It's my personal feeling that his official homecoming wasn't the first time he'd been back. Showing him setting up the foundry, getting the lay of the land, etc.

All that would be within the five years, though, no? The issue is flashbacks once you've used all five years.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Who's to say that the flashbacks will account for absolutely EVERYTHING interesting that happened during that time? There's at least one swath of time on the island, covering at least a couple months, where Ollie, Shado and Slade could have had an adventure or two. There could be others coming up where stuff happened that doesn't apply to the "main" arc at the time as well.

Mark

 

[Gryffindorian]

Black Canary's character was retconned in the comics. So the Dinah Lance who partnered with and married Oliver is/was the daughter of the older Canary (WW2 era, All Star Squadron).

 

[Guy Gardener]

Yeah.

They retconned that retcon 4 new universes ago.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Black Canary's character was retconned in the comics. So the Dinah Lance who partnered with and married Oliver is/was the daughter of the older Canary (WW2 era, All Star Squadron).

The Canary actually debuted after WWII in 1947 (Flash Comics #86) and was never in the All-Star Squadron.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You remember that World War 2 started happening again across the multiverse ater the JSA and JLA stared just droped by to borrow a cup of flour?

Dinah was from Earth II which was 2 decades behind earth one and still fighting Hitler in Earth One's 1970s.

Post crisis all the Earths were conflated changing the line up in Allstar Saquadron to have always been an Earth 1 thing, so that Black Canary was there, but Batman and Superman was not.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I muts've been thinking of the Justice Society in general. Or maybe it was Hawkwoman/Hawkgirl?

 

[Nerys Myk]

You remember that World War 2 started happening again across the multiverse ater the JSA and JLA stared just droped by to borrow a cup of flour?

Dinah was from Earth II which was 2 decades behind earth one and still fighting Hitler in Earth One's 1970s.

Post crisis all the Earths were conflated changing the line up in Allstar Saquadron to have always been an Earth 1 thing, so that Black Canary was there, but Batman and Superman was not.

No, it wasn't. WWII was long over when Barry Allen wound up on Jay Garrick's Earth. Barry even looks at a newspaper when he arrives, the date is the same as on his Earth. Jay mentions when he retired as the Flash, some twenty two years prior to Barry's arrival. All subsequent team-ups with the E2 characters are set in modern times as well. The JSA series in All-Star Comics, published in the 70s and the Infinity Inc series from the 80s are also set in modern times and the fact the JSA characters have aged is a factor in both. Only the All Star Squadron and it's sequel, the Young All-Stars are set during WWII.

You might be thinking of Earth X, where the Nazi's won WWII. In that adventure, the Earth II Superman mention he fought Nazis' at the start of his career.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rules change and history is constantly revised.

I'm thinking about the JLA/JSA crossovers in the early 80s JLA that I read as a child.

Earth II was only up to just after WWII, somewhere during the 1950s, and clearly not the 1980s.

And then Crisis made a wall between old comics and new comics.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Rules change and history is constantly revised.

I'm thinking about the JLA/JSA crossovers in the early 80s JLA that I read as a child.

Earth II was only up to just after WWII, somewhere during the 1950s, and clearly not the 1980s.

And then Crisis made a wall between old comics and new comics.

Then you're remembering them wrong. Those were set in the 70s & 80s on both worlds. Many involved a third team: The LSH, the New Gods, heroes from the past, the Secret Society of Super Villains. The only one partially set in WWII was the team up with the All-Star Squadron as the third team. That one had the JSA and JLA from the 80s teaming with the All Stars. It was also a time travel story that has the teams traveling to the 40s and the 60s.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I just read JLA 219 (1981) (Because I'm a dick.) where Jay is explaining parallel earth's to Barry, which if you are right (which you are.) then Jay has been the Flash since the mid 1930s, yet the character does not seem to be in his early 70s if Earth II is also in it's 80s. Some snow around the edges sure, but 72 years old I do not think so.

This is a small contribution to the necessity of the first Crisis.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I just read JLA 219 (1981) (Because I'm a dick.) where Jay is explaining parallel earth's to Barry, which if you are right (which you are.) then Jay has been the Flash since the mid 1930s, yet the character does not seem to be in his early 70s if Earth II is also in it's 80s. Some snow around the edges sure, but 72 years old I do not think so.

This is a small contribution to the necessity of the first Crisis.

The Speed Force kept Jay young, as did his exposure to Karkull radiation ( which also kept most of the JSA young, too) The former being the PostCrisis explanation and the later the PreCrisis explanation. Remember, they brought the JSA back a few years after the COIE with their WWII history intact.