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Agents of SHIELD. Season 1 Discussion Thread

Nah, I don't think it was that out of character. She's a fairly cold-blooded person. Just because she isn't HYDRA doesn't mean there aren't concerns for her character.
 
Who was that character?

Boyd - Who was the main character's handler/body guard/ally for the entire two seasons of the show turned out to be the ultimate big bad of the entire series
Yes, forgot about that. But I don't think the character to whom you refer, is equal to Ward. The Dollhouse character could not have been called the show's male lead or second male lead, and definitely was not the guy who was destined to be romantically involved with the show's female lead.

But the Dollhouse producers did take a sizable risk with that move and as you stated, it certainly is no coincidence that both these show's are Whedon joints.

I mean at this point you're being crazy specific here. You mentioned Chokatay as an example, and he wasn't destined to become romantically involved with the show's female lead. In an ensemble show like Dollhouse, Boyd was as much a lead as any other character on the show other than Echo. He was a main character and a good guy for two full seasons until he wasn't.
 
According to promotional talk before Voyager was released, Tom Paris was destined to be the leading man romantically attached to the Janeway character nightly.

But some time these ideas just make it past preproduction.
 
Did you think that it was out of character for Hand to suddenly decide to kill Garrett? Weren't they planning to interrogate him, etc, to get useful information from him? It looks like it could have been a set up to make Garrett trust Ward. Certainly a lot of different possibilities to keep us guessing.

Remember, Hand was ready to kill off the whole team because she suspected them of being HYDRA. She's been a morally ambiguous character from the start, in keeping with her comics counterpart. So no, it wasn't the least bit out of character.
 
Note to Canadian viewers:

CTV's not doing the same thing as ABC tonight after all, it seems. While ABC re-airs "Turn, Turn, Turn", CTV will be running The Goldbergs and Trophy Wife in that timeslot. At 9 PM, they'll be in lockstep with ABC for "Providence".
 
I'd say ten years ago, Ward was told that Hydra ran S.H.E.I.L.D. and that he would be paid double if he filed extra reports for Hydra, and at the very end of it all, there would be world peace and a position near the top proportionate to his duties and faith towards the organization.

There are no off book hydra specific secret missions.

All S.H.E.I.L.D. missions are Hydra Missions, and all hydra missions are S.H.E.I.L.D. missions because S.H.E.I.L.D. has done everything as awful as you think Hydara is capable of in the name of world peace and the greater good becuase S.H.E.I.L.D. is Hydra and there is really very little difference.
If this were true there would not have been a Centipede. That whole set up would have been an on-book SHIELD research program.

This brings up another thought about "Guest House" where Coulson was apparently brought back to life. Some posters suggested it might have been a Hydra facility. It couldn't be, because there would have been no reason for Centipede to be seeking the information. This had to be some independent research that Fury stumbled on, and that he kept totally off the books because he had suspected that SHIELD was compromised. Really, it seems like now we know even less about Guest House, in that all of our guesses are proving wrong.
 
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A reason for Centipede is the current situation. SHIELD/HYDRA has been discovered and is being openly fought , by the USA and remains of SHIELD and no doubt others. One limb gone another emerges.
 
Centipede is not really an organization, it's just a specific project -- the project to develop supersoldiers using a hybrid of various power-enhancing technologies. The name Centipede comes from the shape of the devices that gave Mike Peterson and others their enhanced powers. What the characters didn't know until now is that it was a HYDRA project all along.

That's how the producers structured the plot to hide the reveal. First, they had the team run afoul of the group behind Mike Peterson's powers. They figured out that Mike was part of a project called Centipede, which was run by some unknown, secretive entities. Then they discovered that some secret group had put an eye implant in Akela Amador and forced her to kill for them. Later, they discovered that the Centipede project and the eye implant project were both part of the same larger conspiracy overseen by Raina, a conspiracy they continued to call "Centipede" because they had no other name for it. Then they found that Raina was answering to an individual she called the Clairvoyant. Finally, they discovered that "the Clairvoyant" was really a SHIELD agent -- that the mastermind of the conspiracy they'd been following all season had been within SHIELD all along. All of this was leading up to the final reveal that the conspiracy was actually HYDRA.
 
"SHIELD, HYDRA ... two sides of a coin that is no longer currency ..."

So what organization is Baron Von Schpamm running?
An organization to be named later. Following the MCU on Hydra they are into everything so when discovered in the Third Reich or SHIELD another limb can take the lead.
 
Centipede is not really an organization, it's just a specific project -- the project to develop supersoldiers using a hybrid of various power-enhancing technologies. The name Centipede comes from the shape of the devices that gave Mike Peterson and others their enhanced powers. What the characters didn't know until now is that it was a HYDRA project all along.

That's how the producers structured the plot to hide the reveal. First, they had the team run afoul of the group behind Mike Peterson's powers. They figured out that Mike was part of a project called Centipede, which was run by some unknown, secretive entities. Then they discovered that some secret group had put an eye implant in Akela Amador and forced her to kill for them. Later, they discovered that the Centipede project and the eye implant project were both part of the same larger conspiracy overseen by Raina, a conspiracy they continued to call "Centipede" because they had no other name for it. Then they found that Raina was answering to an individual she called the Clairvoyant. Finally, they discovered that "the Clairvoyant" was really a SHIELD agent -- that the mastermind of the conspiracy they'd been following all season had been within SHIELD all along. All of this was leading up to the final reveal that the conspiracy was actually HYDRA.

While I'm not denying that Centipede was a part of HYDRA all along, I have to wonder if the people involved with Centipede knew that. Remember that at first, Centipede's only contact with the "Clairvoyant", and presumably HYDRA, was Edison Po, a man in prison. Raina even had to go through Po to get further instructions.

It just seems like a lot of hoops to jump through if they already knew what was up.
 
I would imagine that besides SHIELD, that AIM, Centipede, Hammer Industries. ..everyone would be on a Hydra sleeper cell hunt.
 
Boyd - Who was the main character's handler/body guard/ally for the entire two seasons of the show turned out to be the ultimate big bad of the entire series
Yes, forgot about that. But I don't think the character to whom you refer, is equal to Ward. The Dollhouse character could not have been called the show's male lead or second male lead, and definitely was not the guy who was destined to be romantically involved with the show's female lead.

But the Dollhouse producers did take a sizable risk with that move and as you stated, it certainly is no coincidence that both these show's are Whedon joints.

I mean at this point you're being crazy specific here. You mentioned Chokatay as an example, and he wasn't destined to become romantically involved with the show's female lead. In an ensemble show like Dollhouse, Boyd was as much a lead as any other character on the show other than Echo. He was a main character and a good guy for two full seasons until he wasn't.
The reason I'm being so specific is because if AoS really is doing what it appears they may be doing, then it is something to make note of because it is so unprecedented.

SPOILERS FOR DOLLHOUSE BEYOND THIS POINT -


I'm also being specific because there are probably other examples of shows with characters like Boyd, who were good, but turned out not to be, but, who, like Boyd, didn't have the same status or level of importance for their shows as does Ward. Just look at the amount of resistance in this thread to Ward's apparent status. We don't even know for sure that he is who we think he is, in his right mind, in control of himself, or really evil, and it has already had a major impact.

I don't recall much hand wringing at all after the Boyd reveal. My guess as to why there wasn't is because people were more willing to accrpt Boyd being bad becuase Boyd's position on Dolhouse was so much different from Ward's on AoS.

More simply put, what Ward is to AoS is not what Boyd was to Dollhouse. Ward is closer to Chakotay, who was the male lead and who was destined (and did) get romantically involved with the female lead AND second female lead.

Think Han Solo turning out to be a Federation operative or Neo working for the machines. Or if we're talking second male leads, Trip Tucker workng for the Suliban, Giles (before season 4 of Buffy) working for the principal or for or Glory or The First Evil, or Angel working for someone evil (not Angelus, but Angel).

That's who Ward is, and this is what makes this move by Whedon and his co-exec producer so incredible, assuming it turns out to be what it appears it may be.
 
While I'm not denying that Centipede was a part of HYDRA all along, I have to wonder if the people involved with Centipede knew that. Remember that at first, Centipede's only contact with the "Clairvoyant", and presumably HYDRA, was Edison Po, a man in prison. Raina even had to go through Po to get further instructions.

It just seems like a lot of hoops to jump through if they already knew what was up.

That just seems like the normal kind of hierarchical structure you'd see in any large organization. The ordinary grunts answer to their boss who answers to a higher boss who answers to a higher boss, on up the ladder. It's the only way a large business or organization can function, by delegating authority and oversight. I mean, Coulson and May might report directly to Fury, but he doesn't have time to give orders to every individual junior agent and trainee. So, for instance, a rank-and-file clerk or security guard at the Academy might answer to a supervisor who answers to Agent Weaver, who answers in turn to, ohh, maybe Maria Hill or Victoria Hand, who answers to Fury, who answers to Pierce and the Council.

HYDRA, as its name and logo make clear, is all about branching out. It's not a single monolithic unit, but an ever-ramifying assortment of plots and cabals and mini-conspiracies. That's what makes it so useful as a recurring comic-book (or TV) antagonist -- however many HYDRA plans the heroes defeat, no matter how many HYDRA agents they bring to justice, there are always more waiting to be unearthed. The Centipede project -- which I suppose we should now call the Deathlok project -- was just one of their many operations. But that doesn't mean they didn't know they were working for HYDRA; it just meant they were working on their own specific project. I'm sure HYDRA compartmentalized information the same way SHIELD did, and Raina and Po surely didn't know everything that Garrett or Pierce knew about HYDRA, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't know what organization they were working for.
 
The producers keep saying that all season long they've been setting things up. Do y'all suppose that Franklin Hall and Donnie Gill could come back into play by the end of the season?
 
Think Han Solo turning out to be a Federation operative or Neo working for the machines. Or if we're talking second male leads, Trip Tucker workng for the Suliban, Giles (before season 4 of Buffy) working for the principal or for or Glory or The First Evil, or Angel working for someone evil (not Angelus, but Angel).


Like Wolfram & Hart?
 
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