‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

[Christopher]

STID was a generally fun movie with some significant flaws, but neither its heights nor its depths were extreme. Man of Steel had some parts that were brilliant and inspired, but unfortunately it had other parts that were utterly abysmal and horrible and wrong and poisoned the rest. In my blog review I called it "the best and worst Superman movie ever."

 

[JarodRussell]

The Dark Knight definitely tells a complete story. In fact, I think that thematically, the first two films work better without the third. BB and TDK between them tell the story of the redemption of Gotham City. Bruce becomes Batman to provide a symbol of hope and justice for a fallen city, and in so doing, he inspires the people to begin taking Gotham back from the corruption and lawlessness. But he recognizes that a masked vigilante is a dysfunctional sort of savior for a dysfunctional city. In order for Gotham to become a fully healthy, lawful community again, it needs to restore a working justice system and social structure. Batman can't provide that, but District Attorney Harvey Dent can, at least as a symbol to take Batman's place. So TDK is about Gotham maturing to the point that it doesn't need Batman to save it anymore. Batman's ostracism is the conclusion of that arc, the acknowledgment that Gotham has outgrown his methods and he'd be a liability if he remained.

So TDKR is kind of a thematic reversal. It doesn't build on what TDK established so much as reset things to where they were in BB -- the system torn down by the League, the city plunged into anarchy so that Batman would be needed again. Which is kind of a cheat. I guess the idea was that the lie Batman and Gordon told wasn't a truly legitimate foundation for that reformed civilization and the truth would come out eventually, but the way the truth came out was just kind of tacked on to a story about something else altogether, and it was kind of lost in the shuffle.

TDKR returns to BB, where Wayne mentions that Batman needs to be a symbol, so that everyone can be behind that mask, even if he is killed. That's all what TDKR is about.

 

[Bad Bishop]

The record so far:

1) The decision that their most successful superhero film property in recent memory is too grounded and serious to help set up a shared universe;

2) The embarrassing misfire called Green Lantern;

3) A Superman film that made decent dough but has proven to be controversial and divisive;

4) An announced Superman/Batman project that they can't seem to nail down the scope, focus, or timing of in relation to setting up the Justice League film.

1) Blame Christopher Nolan

2) Uh... GL more than doubled the gross of Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

3) Only in the fanboy community. Regular folks don't care.

4) You need pals on the inside. Jennifer Garner, for example, has already seen her husband's new Batman suit.

 

[Christopher]

3) A Superman film that made decent dough but has proven to be controversial and divisive;

3) Only in the fanboy community. Regular folks don't care.

No, I've seen a lot of similarly mixed reactions from more mainstream critics. It's at 55% on Rotten Tomatoes, meaning opinions are pretty evenly divided. Glancing over the review excerpts, even many of the reviews marked positive complain about the excesses of the climax or the humorlessness of the film.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

2) Uh... GL more than doubled the gross of Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance made $132.5 million worldwide against a production budget of $57 million. Green Lantern made $219.8 million worldwide against a production budget of $200 million. The latter is a much worse result.

3) Only in the fanboy community. Regular folks don't care.

The fanboy community and the critics were split, but you're right that the general public was much more positive. While Man of Steel has a 55% rating on Rotten Tomatoes from the critics, its audience rating is 76%, similar to its IMDB rating of 7.4, and it had a Cinemascore of A- on its opening weekend. Iron Man 3, on the other hand, has a Rotten Tomatoes rating of 78% from critics and an audience rating of 80%, while its IMDB rating is 7.4 and it had a Cinemascore of A.

 

[Bad Bishop]

2) Uh... GL more than doubled the gross of Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance made $132.5 million worldwide against a production budget of $57 million. Green Lantern made $219.8 million worldwide against a production budget of $200 million. The latter is a much worse result.

Dammit, next time I'm bringing up Punisher: War Zone.

 

[Captaindemotion]

2) Uh... GL more than doubled the gross of Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance made $132.5 million worldwide against a production budget of $57 million. Green Lantern made $219.8 million worldwide against a production budget of $200 million. The latter is a much worse result.

Dammit, next time I'm bringing up Punisher: War Zone.

That made me snigger out loud like Beavis and Butthead.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The record so far:

1) The decision that their most successful superhero film property in recent memory is too grounded and serious to help set up a shared universe;

2) The embarrassing misfire called Green Lantern;

3) A Superman film that made decent dough but has proven to be controversial and divisive;

4) An announced Superman/Batman project that they can't seem to nail down the scope, focus, or timing of in relation to setting up the Justice League film.

1) Blame Christopher Nolan

2) Uh... GL more than doubled the gross of Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

3) Only in the fanboy community. Regular folks don't care.

4) You need pals on the inside. Jennifer Garner, for example, has already seen her husband's new Batman suit.

1) Didn't say he wasn't responsible.

2) Not an MCU/Avengers-related film to my knowledge. (I didn't even know it existed....)

3) Thank you, Christopher.

4) Bears no relation to what I said whatsoever.

 

[JD]

2) Uh... GL more than doubled the gross of Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance made $132.5 million worldwide against a production budget of $57 million. Green Lantern made $219.8 million worldwide against a production budget of $200 million. The latter is a much worse result.

Wow, I didn't realize Spirit of Vengeance actually made that much. I thought it was total and complete bomb that nobody went to see.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Wow, I didn't realize Spirit of Vengeance actually made that much. I thought it was total and complete bomb that nobody went to see.

It had a big drop-off from the first film. Ghost Rider made $228.7 million against a $110 million production budget. The sequel made almost $100 million less. The sequel was going to be a big budget film, with a budget initially set at $135 million. Sony saw the writing on the wall and saved themselves from taking a loss by slashing the budget way down.

 

[Dream]

Sony saw the writing on the wall and saved themselves from taking a loss by slashing the budget way down.

Spirit of Vengeance was definitely a failure for Sony.

SONY gave the Ghost Rider rights back to Marvel Studios after Spirit of Vengeance flopped. I guess they were hoping for some bonus points from Disney for doing that.

 

[Bad Bishop]

Pardon me while I revisit this.

The record so far:
...

4) An announced Superman/Batman project that they can't seem to nail down the scope, focus, or timing of in relation to setting up the Justice League film.

You obviously don't think that anyone at Warner Bros knows what they're doing. I think you're wrong. Bringing Batman into the sequel to Man of Steel is a brilliant move. I don't think anyone here anticipated it, and someone certainly should have if we're all so much smarter than WB execs.

While we love knocking studio people, I believe there is serious planning going on at Warner Bros/DC. We're just unlucky not to be in on the discussions. They're not copying the MCU approach but they're not winging it either. You and many others would be far less frustrated and annoyed if you had friends at the studio feeding you intelligence on WB's plans. My bottom line is "wait and see," not "it's a trainwreck."

 

[Kelthaz]

Pardon me while I revisit this.

The record so far:
...

4) An announced Superman/Batman project that they can't seem to nail down the scope, focus, or timing of in relation to setting up the Justice League film.

You obviously don't think that anyone at Warner Bros knows what they're doing. I think you're wrong. Bringing Batman into the sequel to Man of Steel is a brilliant move. I don't think anyone here anticipated it, and someone certainly should have if we're all so much smarter than WB execs.

No one here anticipated a Batman vs. Superman movie? Are you serious? People have been wanting a Batman vs. Superman film for decades. It's not some crazy idea that only a genius could come up with; it's incredibly obvious and the only thing I didn't anticipate is how long it took WB to get off its ass and finally make it happen.

 

[JacksonArcher]

I think Bad Bishop's point is that nobody anticipated a Batman/Superman movie so soon after Man of Steel. I think most fans expected a trilogy of Man of Steel films, or at least a proper Man of Steel sequel, and maybe a couple of individual films like The Flash or Wonder Woman before even getting a Batman/Superman movie.

Warner Bros. is obviously not wanting to replicate Marvel's model, but emulate it. I have to agree with Bad Bishop that by putting Batman in a Man of Steel sequel this is their best bet to do that. If they followed Marvel's approach (individual movies eventually leading to a team-up movie) then they would get criticized for copying. At least here they are doing something different by teaming up a couple of superheroes in a movie before eventually building up to a Justice League movie.

As a matter of fact, I would love to see a Green Lantern movie but with appearances by Martin Manhunter or a Wonder Woman movie with appearances by Superman. Or an Aquaman movie with appearances by other Justice League members. It would be an interesting approach, if done well.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

What Bad Bishop and JacksonArcher said.

Recall that the Batman/Superman movie was revealed at SDCC last year. Nearly a month after MOS had debuted in theaters. Nobody saw it coming that soon. TPTB must have been highly satisfied with the movie and the business it was doing at the BO; to green light a sequel as early as they did.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Spirit of Vengeance was definitely a failure for Sony.

As I said, they saved themselves from a loss with the big budget cut. Even so, the huge drop-off in box office from the first film meant it wasn't worth their while continuing the franchise.

 

[DWF]

Warner Brothers had plans for a Superman/Batman filmed do be directed by Wolfgang Peterson and a Wonder Woman and Flash movies but all those plans fell though along with t he George Miller directed JLA movie. It's obvious that the WB looked at how successful Marvel has been with their MCU movies and are now scrambling to catch up.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Bishop is once again beating a straw man with the wrong end of the bush....I never disputed their choice to make a Batman/Superman movie...something that I've been wanting to see for years...the point of item #4 was this part: "...that they can't seem to nail down the scope, focus, or timing of in relation to setting up the Justice League film."

 

[Christopher]

...the point of item #4 was this part: "...that they can't seem to nail down the scope, focus, or timing of in relation to setting up the Justice League film."

But the operative word there is "seem." It would be a huge mistake to assume that the lack of clarity in what's been made public to date represents a lack of clarity in the actual planning. What we see is just the tip of the iceberg. Heck, it's just the barest glimpse of the iceberg peering over the horizon. For all we know, they may have a very clear, detailed plan for their films; but we're just learning about it in dribs and drabs, through secondhand sources and rumors and leaks and speculations. So what we're aware of is bound to be a whole lot vaguer and more confused than what's actually being done behind the scenes.

 

[Kelthaz]

I think Bad Bishop's point is that nobody anticipated a Batman/Superman movie so soon after Man of Steel.

Yes, that's true, but rushing a Batman vs. Superman film isn't a sign of brilliance. It's a sign of panic. WB is scrambling to catch up with Marvel and make the money that they could have made years ago.