Star Trek: Axanar

[batboy853]

not to derail the conversation, but I dont think ive seen any canon source saying that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Not even that he was the first to graduate the academy. this was something that fans imagined up outside of the show.

Absolutely correct. We had this conversation on Facebook and I researched and this is correct.

Still, there are no other races in TOS on the Enterprise, and TAS is not canon.

Alec

As of June 27th 2007, it was made considered Canon with TPTB with star trek at the time. it was the same writers and same producers for the series as the rest of TOS. In addition there are species, and events that are referenced in other star trek series.

Official Star Trek website lists it as Canon.

while it is a children's show and not all episodes are to be taken seriously, it is not a reason to limit what you can do with your series....

just saying.

 

[DEWLine]

We might leave out "Slaver Weapon" due to Larry Niven's involvement, but otherwise...

 

[Loken]

Strange, I've always considered the Starfleet of TOS closer to something like NATO.
Many planets working toward a common goal, but still with their own fleets to contribute to it. It's not until the movie era that the fleet is growing more and more together to the mixed one we know from the days beyond TNG.

A great analogy that I don't disagree with.

For what it's worth, the Star Trek Writers Guide (Third Revision, dated April 17, 1967) has the following comment:

"THE CREW: International in origin, completely multi-racial. But even in this future century, we will see some traditional trappings, ornaments, and styles that suggest the Asiatic, the Arabic, the Latin, etc. So far, Mister Spook has been our only crewman with blood lines from another planet. However, it is not impossible that we might discover some other aliens or part aliens working aboard our Starship."​

The Making of Star Trek by Stephen E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry (from September of 1968) has similar content:​

"The 430-man crew (approximately one third are females) is completely international and multiracial in makeup. There are even crewmembers from other planets. Although Mister Spock is the only alien crew member introduced so far, there are others who will make their appearance on future shows. The crew of each starship is predominantly of one type. The crew of some of these vessels is primarily human, others primarily Vulcan, and others perhaps something else. Each ship has a small percentage of aliens aboard, but the majority of the crew are usually of one type."

True, but sadly the writers guide isn't even canon. Again, if it is not on screen it is not canon. That is according to CBS's Star Trek brand manager and generally agreed, by even the Okudas.

Still, there are no other races in TOS on the Enterprise, and TAS is not canon.

Alec

As of June 27th 2007, it was made considered Canon with TPTB with star trek at the time. it was the same writers and same producers for the series as the rest of TOS. In addition there are species, and events that are referenced in other star trek series.

Official Star Trek website lists it as Canon.

while it is a children's show and not all episodes are to be taken seriously, it is not a reason to limit what you can do with your series....

just saying.

Yeah, but not even CBS considers it canon. Think alternate universe if you wish. But as of last month when I asked the Star Trek brand manager, it was not canon.

Alec

 

[Loken]

So, then, that also discredits both of your strange assumptions, that the Intrepid was not a Starfleet vessel, and that there were no aliens serving in Starfleet at the time of TOS (besides Spock).

With the idea that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet dismissed, there is no reason in TOS outside of The Immunity Syndrome to suppose that Intrepid is not a Starfleet vessel. Moreover, within that episode, the facts that Starfleet is tracking her and is concerned about losing contact with her are both consistent with and suggestive of the idea that Intrepid is Starfleet.

Turning to JJTrek, the Kelvin is in Prime Universe continuity right up to the point of the Narada temporal incursion, and there are at least two non-humans serving aboard her.

By the way, since you bring up TAS, and regardless of whether you wish to draw on TAS continuity or to disregard it, it's now old news that CBS considers TAS to be canon. So, TAS is canon.

I believe I corrected myself. The Intrepid may have been a Starfleet vessel. On the other hand, it may have been a Federation vessel as Starfleet may well only be an Earth organization (Note that Kirk says that they are under the authority of UESPA)

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/United_Earth_Space_Probe_Agency

My point was that it appears at the time of TOS that crews are generally NOT integrated. Spock is the only alien on the Enterprise, and the Intrepid is all Vulcan.

And despite what you claim, TAS is NOT canon according to CBS. As I said, I know the CBS brand manager for Star Trek, who is responsible for everything Star Trek licensing wise, including the books. He is a total Star Trek geek and he says that CBS does not consider TAS canon. It is canon within TAS but not outside.

Alec

 

[feek61]

I always thought that the "Intrepid" was another starship class vessel like the "Enterprise." I guess it's because Spock mentions that over 400 Vulcan's died which is the same crew compliment as the "Enterprise." I guess I just never really thought it could be another type of vessel. Funny how we get these things locked in our mind, lol

 

[doubleohfive]

It could also be argued as well that the difference between UESPA and Starfleet is entirely superficial and that at the time the writers of the show had simply not settled on a definitive name for the organization our heroes all worked for, and that subsequent retconning is responsible for the differentiation.

I see no reason why (especially given the points raised about the aliens on the Kelvin during the pre-divergence in Star Trek (2009) that Starfleet vessels can't have multispecies crews. Nor do I understand this silly insistence that The Animated Series is not canon.

Fuck that noise. These fan films aren't canon either so I have to ask -- Who really cares?

 

[GSchnitzer]

I think that when the Torah of officially-produced Star Trek is silent on an issue, the Talmud of the Writers’ Guides, Directors’ Guides, and scripts can provide valuable commentary on original intent. It would be a shame to not take advantage of their important content. That’s what we've done on our show.

 

[Barbreader]

I think that when the Torah of officially-produced Star Trek is silent on an issue, the Talmud of the Writers’ Guides, Directors’ Guides, and scripts can provide valuable commentary on original intent. It would be a shame to not take advantage of their important content. That’s what we've done on our show.

Judging from some conversations I have just had on facebook, I suspect many of your readers won't have a clue what you are talking about. Not concerning Trek, but concerning "Torah" and "Talmud".

 

[Captain Atkin]

I see no reason why (especially given the points raised about the aliens on the Kelvin during the pre-divergence in Star Trek (2009) that Starfleet vessels can't have multispecies crews. Nor do I understand this silly insistence that The Animated Series is not canon.
?

I believe Gene Roddenberry said that the only episode of TAS that was canon (to him) was Yesteryear. I enjoy all the cartoons, but Yesteryear is the most mature story told in that series, and it stands on its own. As for multi-species crews, that only reason we didn't see that on the Enterprise was because of the TV show's budget. We certainly saw lots of aliens in Starfleet uniforms in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I'm sure that there was plenty of aliens out there wearing TOS uniforms on other ships. We just never saw them.

 

[Loken]

CANON

Ultimately what is and what is not canon has absolutely no relevance to anything, but the argument of what is and what is not canon.

The CBS brand manager also said that canon can be personal to each individual and what they want to include in THEIR interpretation of Trek. So think what you like.

However, the official CBS position is TAS is NOT canon. The only "silly insistence" is arguing that it is since you have no facts to base that on and it contradicts what the only authority with a valid opinion, the IP rights holder, has.

UESPA / Starfleet

Well, again, it is clear that UESPA is the authority called "Starfleet Command" in Enterprise. UESPA is also the authority mentioned in several episodes of TOS, eventually being referred to as Starfleet Command. Starfleet is authorized and under the authority of EARTH, not the Federation. The Vulcans have their own ship, the Intrepid in "Immunity Syndrome". So it seems that the Federation members had separate ships, porbably each under command of the member worlds, but working together. And one can assume that is why we see almost no Andorians or Tellarites on Starfleet ships. But we know there CAN be aliens in Starfleet, Spock is evidence.

And at some point Starfleet Command becomes THE Federation fleet.

So the decision to keep ships with mostly distinct crews in Axanar is consistent with what we have seen for the time period.

Alec

 

[batboy853]

so the official CBS star trek website that says something is canon, is wrong because one individual at CBS says something that differs. gotcha. I think im understanding it now TOS trumps all, including Spocks Brain. Everything else isn't canon.

either way im looking forward to this series looks good.

 

[Loken]

so the official CBS star trek website that says something is canon, is wrong because one individual at CBS says something that differs. gotcha. I think im understanding it now TOS trumps all, including Spocks Brain. Everything else isn't canon.

either way im looking forward to this series looks good.

The CBS Star Trek website is written by writers. Some of who work for CBS and some who don't. Thinking that it has the final word on Star Trek is a bit naive.

You don't know the CBS brand manager/head of licensing. So let me tell you a bit about him. He knows everything going on in the world of Star Trek. He coordinates the Star Trek novels, Star Trek online, the Star Trek comics, ALL of which run through him. He has been at CBS/Paramount for 15 years. The people at CBS look to HIM when anything Star Trek happens.

So you don't know who he is and you make assumptions. Well, we know what those are good for. When he says that CBS does not consider TAS canon, he speaks for CBS.

So consider some article written by an unknown author who may well have nothing to do with CBS other than getting a paycheck the final say if you wish. But that doesn't change the fact that CBS, at least those people who actually spend ANY time thinking about canon and actually care, doesn't consider TAS canon.

But as he said, each person can consider canon what it means to THEM personally. The only reason canon matters at all is because TO THE WRITERS what appears onscreen must generally be consistent (although there are many contradictions of course) with what has come before. NO ONE writing for Star Trek is ever required to to honor anything other than what is seen on screen in the live action Star Trek. No books, no comics, and no animated episodes.

 

[Loken]

Some concept art.

 

[Loken]

 

[David.Blue]

I don't agree with your reasoning, but you've justified it and it is your show. Look forward to the final result!

Like the designs!

Now I'll feel silly (and lazy). Who was Korolev?

 

[tobiasrichter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev

 

[captainkirk]

I love that console design. It feels very functional.

 

[Ronald Held]

Nice looking art. Looks like mostly TOS with some vestige of Enterprise mixed in.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

The Korolev is a sweet-looking cruiser, and I love the bridge design. BTW, what are the irregularly-shaped red things on the left and right edges of the turbolift doors?

 

[Loken]

The Korolev is a sweet-looking cruiser, and I love the bridge design. BTW, what are the irregularly-shaped red things on the left and right edges of the turbolift doors?

The idea is blast doors to seal off compartments.

Thanks for your continued interest and intelligent discourse Moriarty. Always happy to see your comments.

Alec