The Walking Dead Season 4

[Triskelion]

Very interesting discussion. Still, I feel like you guys are overestimating the human survival rate. The virus attacks humanity, it's only a handful who have some kind of mutant defense against it, and even they are not immune once they go comatose or dead.

The virus could have a three generation gestation for all anyone knows. Plenty of time to infect every human on the planet. Like a time bomb.

In other words - being in a bunker might not be any protection whatsoever from the maturation of the virus. The story appears to me to be centered around the simple fact that for every 5000 (?) people, only one survives. And that's just fanwank, there's no actual canonical formula.

You don't organize around that ratio, you survive it alone. I feel like the whole thematic point to the series is that the world has turned and that includes institutions, organizations, internet, telecommunications, everything of the modern age is taken away and the survivors are living in a wasteland.

The survivors are not immune, either.

Also, I believe the CDC episode addressed the "hope for government rescue" option. It doesn't seem to be a very viable hope. I'm looking forward to see where the series takes the story.


Here's a question: at what point do the zombies just rot apart? Or are they making fresh ones? If the majority turned at the same time - are they increasingly decomposing as the series goes on?

 

[the G-man]

Here's a question: at what point do the zombies just rot apart? Or are they making fresh ones? If the majority turned at the same time - are they increasingly decomposing as the series goes on?

Every time somebody dies and they're not put down with a headshot they become a zombie. Therefore it's obvious that new zombies are being made every day in not insignificant numbers.

And yes zombies rot and decompose though at a slower rate than a dead body would do if they weren't reanimated. Whenever somebody turns they're still fairly " fresh" looking. Other zombies are more decomposed. Two significant examples of more rotted zombies would be the bicycle girl from the first episode and the zombie in Hershels well.

There's also some evidence that of a zombie were trapped under certain conditions the body could desiccate and the zombie wouldn't move and would be effectively truly dead. I am thinking of the mummified corpses in some of the motor vehicles that we've seen. If everyone dies turns all those dead bodies should've been zombies. I could be wrong but it seems as if the only dead bodies we've seen that didn't reanimate and didn't have head wounds were the ones in the motor vehicles trapped with no water no moisture in glass boxes becoming affectively mummified

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah like "starving to death" it would seem decomposition is greatly slowed.

 

[shivkala]

Also, I believe the CDC episode addressed the "hope for government rescue" option. It doesn't seem to be a very viable hope. I'm looking forward to see where the series takes the story.

It also addressed the "what about the rest of the world" question, when Jenner mentions the other groups working on this and says that the French lasted the longest.

 

[Triskelion]

Here's a question: at what point do the zombies just rot apart? Or are they making fresh ones? If the majority turned at the same time - are they increasingly decomposing as the series goes on?

Every time somebody dies and they're not put down with a headshot they become a zombie. Therefore it's obvious that new zombies are being made every day in not insignificant numbers.

I'm talking about the great mass of zombies, not the ones from the fraction of survivor-made zombies.

In other words, doesn't it seem like each season should portray zombies in increasingly decomposed states? Overall, I mean, not anecdotal individuals. Since most of the zombies came from the Turning Point - wouldn't the first season have more fresh zombies on average? In other words - really, isn't the zombie apocalypse a self-correcting problem on the grand scale?

Survivor zombies notwithstanding. Go hold up in Alaska for a decade, then return south and what do you find? Just the odd zombie remaining from the fraction of survivors in the years after the Turning Point.

For example, if this show were still on 10 years from now - the Original Zombies' flesh would fall off their own bones by then. Except for the handwavium factors in the service of storytelling.

I confess I haven't paid close attention to their average decomposition rate as the seasons progress. Also, who cares.

 

[Pavonis]

In general, I've noted that the walkers are more decomposed each season. They first season walkers were fresh, very active (knocking down or climbing over fences to chase prey) and somewhat intelligent (one used a rock to break a glass door to get at Rick and the others). Subsequent seasons had the walkers getting less active and more decomposed, and far less intelligent. There's a limit to how much decomposition the producers can depict, though, since the animatronics tend to look particularly fake, and the rest of the walkers need to be played by more and more skeletal-looking extras (which I hope are hard to come by).

 

[sojourner]

the walkers need to be played by more and more skeletal-looking extras (which I hope are hard to come by).

They could hire runway models.

 

[Mister Fandango]

No one can assume any of the observed military were not on recon, or anything else. What we do know is that they were active. The guards attacked by the Governor were not sitting around lost, and after a year+ of the outbreak, they appeared quite healthy and well-armed. How did they maintain this after more than a year of a situation where food and weapons would (in theory) be exausted to the point the guards should not be in that healthy (physical & mechanical) health?

If there was a working government, every single radio channel would not be dead. There'd be absolutely no reason for that. Zombies don't use radio, living survivors do. And even if a working government chose to bunker down and wait it out, they'd still be sending transmissions to the public, possibly even advising others to do the same or offering suggestions for survival. Probably more likely looking for possible resources to claim for themselves, instead, but non-cynics can always hope for the former.

But there's been nothing. Absolutely nothing. Not even a tiny glimmer of a hope that any kind of government is still in tact. No aircraft (since that last, obviously isolated group of GIs), no radio transmissions, nada single thing indicating that anything close to a functioning body still exists.

And if there were, and they lost contact with the GIs we saw the governor shoot down, at least their comms would have gotten some kind of communication from them if they were 1) still in tact and 2) in charge of whatever remained of the military. But there was nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

So sure, keep on trying to claim that there is a working government out there and the survival rate has been fantastically high outside of the Georgia area. The only person you're deluding by claiming anything of the sort is yourself.

 

[JD]

I think I've said it before but, one of my biggest frustrations with show has been the lack of information on what's going outside of Rick's group and the people they encounter. It would be nice to get some indication of what's going on outside of the small group of people we've been following since the show started. I know the CDC guy did tell them a few things, but it would be nice to get some real concrete information.

 

[Borgminister]

Remember, there will be a spinoff from what I remember reading.

 

[propita]

How, exactly, do they lock the cell doors? I imagine there's not enough keys for everyone and they're not exactly designed to be opened by those inside. Though, if everyone had their own key, it would make sense for everyone to be locked in.

Block the original locking mechanism, then give everyone a chain and padlock.

While I understand and kinda agree, can you imagine this scenario:

You're safely locked in your cell, and there are now walkers outside it. You are stuck, in your cell, until you starve to death and become a walker yourself--who can't get out.

I doubt the walkers would leave while you're still alive, unless distracted. But if they're at your cell, it's unlikely there's a rescue.

 

[sojourner]

How, exactly, do they lock the cell doors? I imagine there's not enough keys for everyone and they're not exactly designed to be opened by those inside. Though, if everyone had their own key, it would make sense for everyone to be locked in.

Block the original locking mechanism, then give everyone a chain and padlock.

While I understand and kinda agree, can you imagine this scenario:

You're safely locked in your cell, and there are now walkers outside it. You are stuck, in your cell, until you starve to death and become a walker yourself--who can't get out.

I doubt the walkers would leave while you're still alive, unless distracted. But if they're at your cell, it's unlikely there's a rescue.

You take your chances at some point. But if this is policy, there should be several other people at least in your block trapped as well, with weapons. and if things are really well planned, the other cell blocks won't have been compromised, so the people in them should come to rescue you. Compartmentalization of the cell blocks should limit the size of the outbreak inside the prison. locking yourself in is protection not only for you, but the people you might kill if you die in your sleep.

 

[Sindatur]

with them clearly having known about the virus before it was even unleashed,

Wait, what?

Yea, I was wondering if I needed to re-watch the CDC episodes to catch that, 'cause I sure don't remember noticing it?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

No one can assume any of the observed military were not on recon, or anything else. What we do know is that they were active. The guards attacked by the Governor were not sitting around lost, and after a year+ of the outbreak, they appeared quite healthy and well-armed. How did they maintain this after more than a year of a situation where food and weapons would (in theory) be exausted to the point the guards should not be in that healthy (physical & mechanical) health?

If there was a working government, every single radio channel would not be dead. There'd be absolutely no reason for that. Zombies don't use radio, living survivors do. And even if a working government chose to bunker down and wait it out, they'd still be sending transmissions to the public, possibly even advising others to do the same or offering suggestions for survival. Probably more likely looking for possible resources to claim for themselves, instead, but non-cynics can always hope for the former.

But there's been nothing. Absolutely nothing. Not even a tiny glimmer of a hope that any kind of government is still in tact. No aircraft (since that last, obviously isolated group of GIs), no radio transmissions, nada single thing indicating that anything close to a functioning body still exists.

And if there were, and they lost contact with the GIs we saw the governor shoot down, at least their comms would have gotten some kind of communication from them if they were 1) still in tact and 2) in charge of whatever remained of the military. But there was nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

So sure, keep on trying to claim that there is a working government out there and the survival rate has been fantastically high outside of the Georgia area. The only person you're deluding by claiming anything of the sort is yourself.

I'm afraid you are the only one who is in the business of deluding himself, since you conveniently skipped over how the guards were so healthy and well armed more than a year after the outbreak--if we are to assume the entire world is so disorganized (including ever shrinking resources spent on killing zombies, etc.). Additionally, you also fail to explain where the helicopters are stationed--their missions (not to mention fuel sources) etc.

Keep pretending the plot foundation does not have holes in it--or plotting for convenience with elements existing when it should not. That's the problem with every zombie movie claiming worldwide disaster....with not even a halfway believable explanation for any of it.

 

[Reverend]

^It's quite simple really. Being well armed and mobile means that when you come across unarmed people, you get to keep their stuff.

 

[Mister Fandango]

I'm afraid you are the only one who is in the business of deluding himself, since you conveniently skipped over how the guards were so healthy and well armed more than a year after the outbreak

You're right, how could a group of highly trained combatants with access to military-grade weapons and hardware have any hope of being well armed and in about as good physical shape as everyone else on the show? It's damn near impossible to puzzle out that conundrum. The mind boggles, it does!

Additionally, you also fail to explain where the helicopters are stationed--their missions (not to mention fuel sources) etc.

You mean besides on the flatbed truck they were using, or the fact that they've obviously been scavenging their ammunition and fuel from whatever sources they came across which, incidentally, wouldn't be that hard when you have a fucking helicopter and squad of highly-trained, well-armed, and zombie experienced soldiers onboard? Is that the situation you're referring to? If so, again, you got me. I have no idea how to solve such a quandary.

Keep pretending the plot foundation does not have holes in it--or plotting for convenience with elements existing when it should not.

I'm not the one saying that.

But I'm also not the one saying that despite all evidence on the show -- every single damn bit of it -- a functional government is still in place and going strong. Not just in the United States, but around the world as well. I'm sorry, but that is delusional, backed up only by the sheer insane things you keep pulling straight out of your ass.

 

[PKerr]

I was wondering about that as well. It would be a simple explanation for why we saw that helicopter and why it happened be heading from Atlanta to the area around the farm, Woodbury, the prison, etc.

As for your other point, yeah, if they were part of a larger military operation and didn't check in it would have made sense that the government/military would have headed out to the area to investigate why no one came back, especially after there was a distress call.

No one can assume any of the observed military were not on recon, or anything else. What we do know is that they were active. The guards attacked by the Governor were not sitting around lost, and after a year+ of the outbreak, they appeared quite healthy and well-armed. How did they maintain this after more than a year of a situation where food and weapons would (in theory) be exausted to the point the guards should not be in that healthy (physical & mechanical) health?

And, honestly, if a fucking fortress built by the CDC only managed to have one guy left, with them clearly having known about the virus before it was even unleashed, I doubt very many other government agencies did a much better job of holding off the hordes.

Presactly. And didn't the CDC guy say the French government was the last to fall? That would imply that all the other governments are gone.

The CDC's staff bailed, committed suicide, etc. (not exactly the first line of defense), and they are not the heart of the government--particularly since they were clueless regarding the reanimation of flesh-eating corpses. They were not an example of the security hub of the state, or nation. Do you think the main body of government would not act with contingency plans if the CDC failed to uncover the problem or address it? Do you believe they would just sit around waiting to become dinner?

In Episode 3 of season 3 the Helicopter pilot says they were part of a well organized, well protected base camp (perhaps the one we see in the season 4 opener?) when one of the people inside got bit he went haywire and panic swept through the camp then someone opened the gate to escape and walkers got in and infected other people things went down hill pretty fast, the pilot and his crew were able to get some vehicles a few supplies and abandoned their post, when the helicopter goes down he was calling Mayday, mayday, mayday I'm assuming to his crew on the ground who they were on their way back to but were unable to reach them because apparently they were to far away from (which I find hard to believe). but who knows, maybe he was trying to reach another base camp, maybe they were going to another base camp when theirs got overrun.
As far as everyone saying the pilot and other soldiers were highly trained..Well they were national guard (weekend warriors) and the pilot says they were part of his crew, part of his crew could mean the mechanics that serviced the helicopter or his drinking buddies from back home and they got called in when all Hell broke lose, we don't know.

The thing is, how many other well organized, well protected base camps are out there? How many prisons or military bases are there in the U.S.?
How about all the military vessels already at sea? surely they would be quarantined or not even affected at all by the virus, would an airborne virus make it all the way out to some ship in the middle of the ocean or a submarine even?
How many other highly secure structures could be easily converted into these base camps the pilot spoke of?
If these National Guard could make it a year then I would think the true "Highly trained" military would, I find it very hard to believe the entire military has fallen or Government for that matter, we just haven't seen it yet because the focus is on this small group.

What ever happened to going to Ft. Benning did they ever say? why was that plan abandoned?

Maybe we'll get more answers when Michael Cudlitz ( Sgt. Abraham Ford) joins the show.

 

[PKerr]

Interesting interview with Norman Reedus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8GO4lE-B8Q#t=922

 

[Triskelion]

The writers could take the story in any direction.

If a fan wants to root for military deus ex machina, alien invasion, planetary self-destruction, or a new Zombie Government, that's their prerogative.

Currently, the story has established clearly that the calvary is not coming. We have to at least acknowledge that possibility, if we want to appreciate the story's theme closer to what it's creators intend. Being art, we can interpret it however we like. Me, I'm not holding my breath for a deus ex machina gimmick ending from this very capable body of writers. Nor do I expect Rick to wake up from a dream in the final episode. But - this too could happen!

 

[sojourner]

Nah, he won't wake up. He'll die in the hospital bed. And become patient zero!

"What a twist!"