Farscape or Babylon 5?

[Sindatur]

Her weird movements weren't a huge deal. If her character was entertaining and didn't make me want to smash my TV, I probably wouldn't even think about it. At this point, its just one more annoying trait of a character I really hate.

Also, the next farscape episodes I have to watch are Look at the Princess Parts 1-3. I'm dreading these episodes, I may just skip them. The premise is really bad, according to wikipedia John has to marry a princess to escape scorpius. Now, he's obviously not going to end up getting married, and its just to cause problems for John and aeryn for a few episodes. It just seems like a waste of almost 3 hours of my life. Then, the next two episodes after that are a Chiana episode (Beware of Dog) and Won't Get Fooled Again, an episode that seems to be in the same vein as A Human Reaction, which I hated. So, I might just skip to The Locket.

Still, 5 episodes is a lot to skip. I'm definately going to be skipping Beware of Dog, and I'm fairly sure I'll be skipping Won't Get fooled Again, but I'm wondering if there is any real reason to watch the Look At the Princess episodes? I mean real reasons, like things that effect the rest of the season/series/

If you're not even interested in the Princess Trilogy, I don't think this show is for you, I think you're just going to get more and more miserable.

First Human Reaction you couldn't stomach, and now the Princess Trilogy, you're not going to get any of the Arc setup introductions at this rate.

Well, I don't know if I'd dislike the princess episodes, just that the premise is really stupid and unoriginal. I don't see how it has any appeal at all, the story has been done to death. I don't think it could be more cliche if the writers had tried. I still like the main plot of the show, the main characters (besides Chiana, obviously), and other things.

At this point, I still think it can be a decent show, reguardless of Chiana or the fact that the bad episodes are becoming more common. When Farscape is good, I really like it. When its bad, its horrible. I'm willing to keep watching it because when its good, it is very enjoyable, and I really like most of the characters, and I want to see what happens to them. If that means I have to deal with Chiana and the show being very hit or miss, I'll deal with it.

Its weird, I have never seen a show with such a hit or miss quality. Every show has bad episodes, but Farscape seems to be going through a rough patch where the good to bad ration is almost 50/50. I'm just hoping that more good episodes start happening, and that the show decides that it doesn't need to do every cliche in existence.

Personally, I think The Princess Trilogy is where the show gets consistently good, and there are very few episodes from here on out that aren't good. But, some of the episodes you haven't liked, I have so, we're starting from a different pallet. Heck, I just finished Earth Final Conflict, and I enjoyed most of it, most of the way through, and there's tons of folks who think it fell apart anywhere from S2 - S4, and almost universally folks think it had definitely fallen apart by S5.

Regarding cliches, yes, absolutely Farscape thrives on cliches, but, it thrives on peeing on the cliches, taking a cliche and turning it on it's head. You won't be able to see that though, by arbitrarily skipping episodes because some write up on it sounds cliche, or fast forwarding through the Chiana parts or the parts that you don't like

I know earlier in the thread, you were piled on pretty hard, and I don't mean to tell you what you should like, and I'm not trying to cal you out for not liking something.

 

[kirk55555]

I get what you mean Sindatur. I actually try to not fast forward too much through sections of episodes that aren't great (Chiana heavy parts being the exception, she has no redeeming features and her sections are almost never important to the plot of the episode, so I don't think I lose anything by skipping scenes where she is the focus). If the episode is mostly about Chiana, like Taking the stone, I just skip it completely (its also why I plan to skip "Beware of Dog"). TTS is the only episode I've completely skipped, although I heavily Fast forwarded through A Human Reaction after he arrived on obviously fake earth, and I only watched 10 minutes of Jeremiah Chrichton before turning it off.

I actually was planning to watch the first Princess episode today, I turned it on and watched a bit of it then Chiana starting getting annoying with chrichton, so I turned it off to watch it later. Then I looked on wikipedia and read the synopsis, and decided I should probably skip it, especially since the very beginning (to be fair, it was only about the first 2 minutes) was annoying me already, and that, combined with the cliche premise, made it seem like an unwatchable episode. I might just skip the first part, and see if the story evolves into something better in Part 2/3, by which point I'm guessing they abandon the "John is going to marry a princess" thing.

You really shouldn't prejudice yourself like this. It's honestly best to just take the episodes as they come. If they're bad, then that's part of the experience. If there are too many bad ones in a row, well then it's time to find another show. Personally I have a "three strikes and out" rule. That is to say if I'm watching a new show and there are three episodes in a row that I don't enjoy, then bye-bye new show. I know some people don't even wait that long, but I like to give things a chance to improve. It's served me OK over the years, though some shows just barely squeaked through at times.

Anyway, yeah I seriously urge you to refrain from reading even a synopsis of upcoming B5 episodes because you *will* be spoiled. Big time.

I don't really go with a strikes rule, sometimes great shows just have a bad stretch. I like Farscape too much to just drop it. Maybe if it gets a stretch of 10+ horrible episodes I'll consider it, but I don't think it will come to that. It seems like whenever I start to lose faith in the series, it has an episode that reminds me why I enjoy it.

As for B5, yeah, I won't be reading any synopsis. It seems like the kind of show that could get ruined with synopsis. I'm always very careful, since I got a HUGE spoiler for Battlestar Galactica just by looking up

Spoiler: Battlestar Galactica spoiler

Colonel Tigh on wikipedia. I wanted to know something about him (his first name, maybe? I forget) but I definately wasn't looking for anything like spoilers. Then, under his name, they listed his race as Humanoid Cylon

I mean, I am not a BSG fan, I haven't gotten past the first part of season 2, but after that spoiler I just kind of lost the desire to keep watching (although the show itself wasn't helping, half the people decided to stay on a planet because people agreed with the crazy guy with a cylon in his head that they should stay, and they end up getting captured by the cylons), but that spoiler definately didn't help my waning interest.

After that, I've been much more careful with wikipedia

 

[Greg Cox]

I used to think of Farscape as the anti-Voyager. Whereas Voyager tended to play things safe and strive for a certain comforting consistency, Farscape was all over the place, being wild and wacky. Once and a while, they'd come up with something that didn't quite work, but things were always popping.

 

[Lindley]

As for B5, yeah, I won't be reading any synopsis. It seems like the kind of show that could get ruined with synopsis.

The Lurker's Guide is a good resource for B5, since it's written as if you have only seen through the episode you are reading about so far.

 

[kirk55555]

I used to think of Farscape as the anti-Voyager. Whereas Voyager tended to play things safe and strive for a certain comforting consistency, Farscape was all over the place, being wild and wacky. Once and a while, they'd come up with something that didn't quite work, but things were always popping.

I actually enjoyed Voyager a lot (definately more than the average Star Trek fan seems to), and I can see what you mean. Farscape does have a tendency to be wacky, which isn't neccesarily a bad thing. Out of Their Minds was wacky, but it was very entertaining. Not counting Chiana episodes, the episodes that really annoy me are the ones that are just cliches that have been done to death, like a guy arriving on an earth that wasn't like his and was actually created by aliens, or a guy wants to live in a "paradise" without technology or worries, or a creature/person that seems peaceful is actually a killer in disguise, or a guy has to propose/marry someone he doesn't love for stupid reasons instead of the person he actually loves, etc. They've been done in shows from every genre, and Farscape doesn't even seem to try to put any new twist on the ideas. Cliches aren't always bad, if they bring something interesting to the table. I can't say if the Princess episodes do anything to be more than a cliche, but Farscape's track record with its really cliched episodes isn't good (although, to be fair, Born to Be Wild was decent, but nothing special).

As for B5, yeah, I won't be reading any synopsis. It seems like the kind of show that could get ruined with synopsis.

The Lurker's Guide is a good resource for B5, since it's written as if you have only seen through the episode you are reading about so far.

Yeah, I've checked it out before (for episodes I've already watched) and it is pretty cool.

 

[Lindley]

I might just skip the first part, and see if the story evolves into something better in Part 2/3, by which point I'm guessing they abandon the "John is going to marry a princess" thing.

As I recall most of the important plot points are found in parts 2 and 3, but my memory is hazy. It just rubs me the wrong way to skip part of a story like that.

 

[kirk55555]

Its not ideal, but if it means saving me 40+ minutes of John pretending to want to marry a princess he doesn't care for, while aeryn is just getting messed with all leading up to John not marrying the princess anyway, then it would be worth it.

 

[Lindley]

or a creature/person that seems peaceful is actually a killer in disguise,

They've done that a few times but usually there's an additional twist later.

At any rate, even when they do use cliches they're very good about hanging a lantern on it. A quote from a future episode....

God-like aliens...man, do I hate god-like aliens! I'll trade a critter for a god-like alien, any day.

Its not ideal, but if it means saving me 40+ minutes of John pretending to want to marry a princess he doesn't care for, while aeryn is just getting messed with all leading up to John not marrying the princess anyway, then it would be worth it.

That's not how it goes, really. John never has any interest. The entire thing is political.

 

[kirk55555]

I know, thats why I said he's pretending to want to marry a princess he doesn't care for. Its been done a lot in tv shows/movies/books, and I just have no desire to see this particular cliche again.

 

[Lindley]

No, I mean he's not pretending even. This is the trouble with assumptions....he never shows any interest whatsoever.

This trilogy is about the internal politics of a planet. John is just a convenient tool for their purposes, and they are twisting his arm.

 

[tomalak301]

Why not give the episode a chance. Don't go just by reading what the plot says. There's more to it than meets the eye and if you skip a part of a trilogy, then you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

Kirk, you do not know what happens in these episodes or in Farscape as a whole. You have certain expectations and assumptions, but one of Farscape's goals and it's strength is that that it constantly strives to subvert those. Get used to it.

Or don't. You clearly are unable to look beyond your preconceived ideas. Stop watching.

 

[kirk55555]

Kirk, you do not know what happens in these episodes or in Farscape as a whole. You have certain expectations and assumptions, but one of Farscape's goals and it's strength is that that it constantly strives to subvert those. Get used to it.

Or don't. You clearly are unable to look beyond your preconceived ideas. Stop watching.

No, I'm not going to stop watching. I've enjoyed a lot of what I've seen so far, too much to just stop. I will say that, after about a season and a half, subverting expectations is not a strength of the series. If I'm sure its going to suck, its sucked. After her first appearance, I expected I'd hate Chiana. I do. After seeing the first 2 minutes of Jeremiah Chrichton/A human Reacton, I knew they'd be bad episodes. From my point of view, I was right.

I don't need to "look beyond my preconceived ideas". I don't even know if I have many preconcieved ideas when it comes to this show. I didn't hate Chiana the very first time on screen, she earned my hate. Sure, she did it in her first episode, but it wasn't hate at first sight or anything. I will admit to hating the cliches, but thats because they are done poorly. You can do the "guy returns to a earth that he thinks is his own, but it isn't" thing well, Farscape just didn't do it. I'll admit that for some of these cliches, like the guy forced into marriage thing, I'm probably going to dislike even
if they are done well, but my mind can be changed, Farscape is just probably not the show thats going to do it at this point.

Why should I stop watching a show I've enjoyed a good portion of? I want to know what happens to John, Aeryn, Zhaan, Rygel, D'argo and Pilot. I want to see their adventures. Heck, I even want to see what happens with Crais and Talon, even if Talon is just a plot device that exsists just to put the crew into dangerous situations. Farscape is going through a rough patch, but with over 50 episodes left, I'm sure the average quality of the episodes will improve. I mean, it will still have the ocassional Chiana episode, unfortunately, but I still like the overall series plot, its just a bit of a struggle waiting for the show's writing to stop fluctuating in quality so much.

 

[Fist McStrongpunch]

You can do the "guy returns to a earth that he thinks is his own, but it isn't" thing well, Farscape just didn't do it.

YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU DIDN'T WATCH THE EPISODE.

 

[kirk55555]

You can do the "guy returns to a earth that he thinks is his own, but it isn't" thing well, Farscape just didn't do it.

YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU DIDN'T WATCH THE EPISODE.

I said I watched the first part, and then when it became obvious it was a "guy arrives on fake earth" episode, I skipped it. I didn't mention I had skipped to the very end, just to confim I was right (as opposed to just exiting the episode completely), with one stop in the middle of the episode to see that the others had somehow shown up on the fake earth. It seemed like exactly what I thought it would be, so I did basically skip it. I did read a summary of it, as well (not just a small synopsis, a larger summary of the whole episode) just to make sure I hadn't missed anything really important to the show overall, or something really interesting. So, I didn't really "watch it", but I do have a general idea of what happened.

 

[Lindley]

I'll just reiterate that I think the Princess trilogy is one of the high points of season 2.

 

[JD]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the "Princess" episodes too.
But then again, I absolutely love Chiana, and I think A Human Reaction is one of the best Season 1 episodes.
I'm honestly kind of starting to wonder if Farscape just isn't for you. You seem to be have quite a bit of trouble dealing with some pretty important elements of the series.

 

[DWF]

kirk55555 should be allowed to like of dislike whatever he wants, personally I found the Princess trilogy to repetitive they should've kept it as a two parter.

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the "Princess" episodes too.
But then again, I absolutely love Chiana, and I think A Human Reaction is one of the best Season 1 episodes.
I'm honestly kind of starting to wonder if Farscape just isn't for you. You seem to be have quite a bit of trouble dealing with some pretty important elements of the series.

I like the show a lot. I don't think hating Chiana is enough reason for me to give up the show, and neither is really disliking overly cliche stories. Looking at the synopsis on wikipedia, it looks like the episodes get better after the Princess trilogy, so I'll probably just read in depth summaries of those three episodes (and Beware of Dog and Won't get Fooled again) and then just continue watching from The Locket.

Edit: Just read an in depth summary of the Princess trilogy. John gets together with the woman for political reasons, gets turned into a statue for some stupid reason that I didn't really understand, gets beheaded, but then fixed. Something weird happens to Moya when a weird person appears, and she tries to kill herself (or the weird guy makes it seem like thats what she's doing, the summaries were a page an episode and I just skimmed the pages at points), until the person stops it because Zhaan is "worthy". Scorpius apparenty has a cooling rod in his head where his brain should be. D'argo is in a relationship with Jar Jar. Aeryn is pretty pointless in the episode. It all turns out fine in the end. I saved myself several hours, and now I know what happened (I read more than what I just posted, I know about Moya/Zhaan escaping from Scorpius, I just posted the bigger plot points). Now, I can move on to good episodes.

 

[Booji]

Yeah, I really enjoyed the "Princess" episodes too.
But then again, I absolutely love Chiana, and I think A Human Reaction is one of the best Season 1 episodes.
I'm honestly kind of starting to wonder if Farscape just isn't for you. You seem to be have quite a bit of trouble dealing with some pretty important elements of the series.

I think Chiana is the worst character in the history of sci-fi and agree with a bunch Kirks complaints thus far, yet I loved Farscape. It's a great show that simply has a lot of god awful moments and cliche story elements. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it as I did and I'm sure Kirk will. Is it on the level of B5 or DS9? no, but it's still amazing in its own right when you get past the faults. Sorta like season 1 & 2 of B5