Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Don't forget. He's sick of hearing about peoples' rights.

Just shut up and let guys like him control you the way God intended! What's so complicated?

 

[Tom Hendricks]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Choosing to have an Abortion is one of the most agonizing decision anyone has to make. No one wants to have an Abortion, however sometimes circumstances leaves no options. My wife and I had genetic testing done with all of our pregnancies, she is Jewish and a carrier of Tay Sach and Caravans. We were also both older, I was 41 and she was 37 when we had our first child. If their was a genetic anomaly, we were both resigned to the fact that we would have to Abort. While we were trying to conceive a child and wanted a child, if their was a genetic issue we would have aborted. Fortunate for us, we didn't need to and have two healthy beautiful boys.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Choosing to have an Abortion is one of the most agonizing decision anyone has to make. No one wants to have an Abortion, however sometimes circumstances leaves no options. My wife and I had genetic testing done with all of our pregnancies, she is Jewish and a carrier of Tay Sach and Caravans. We were also both older, I was 41 and she was 37 when we had our first child. If their was a genetic anomaly, we were both resigned to the fact that we would have to Abort. While we were trying to conceive a child and wanted a child, if their was a genetic issue we would have aborted. Fortunate for us, we didn't need to and have two healthy beautiful boys.

Before anyone else posts it: I Love Abortion.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Don't forget. He's sick of hearing about peoples' rights.

Just shut up and let guys like him control you the way God intended! What's so complicated?

Finally, something we can agree on.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Premeditated trolling, folks.

Ain't it a sight?

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Before anyone else posts it: I Love Abortion.

Indeed.

Absolutely sickening isn't it.

 

[Deckerd]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Someone should put this thread out of its misery.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

The child has after all a right to know who you are so one day you will meet him or her again .

What makes you say that? A child has no "right" to meet or have any connection to their biological parents.

I am not a lawyer and naturally laws differ among countries but if the respective public agency has any data about your biological parents over here it is obliged to reveal them to you.
Not that this legal shit matters. There are ample of obvious biological, e.g. to learn about genetic diseases, and above all psychological reasons that drive adopted children to wanna know who their biological parents are.

But we already know what your stance on this is: screw the children, screw the women, all the power to men. And if these adopted children (of which there would be much more in your fantasy world without abortion) become depressive because they do not learn anything about their biological origins, screw them again because we do not want a public health system.
Right-wingers might not like fucking outside of marriage and for any purpose but procreation yet they surely do like to fuck people over.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Before anyone else posts it: I Love Abortion.

Indeed.

Absolutely sickening isn't it.

I'm assuming you didn't read it, then.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Before anyone else posts it: I Love Abortion.

I do understand this position and consider it to be a natural response to right-wing craziness but in my opinion the moderate way is preferable to the radical one. I like social democrats and not communists, I like MLK and not Malcolm X.
Abortion should not occur as often as possible, it should happen as rarely as possible and as often as necessary.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Sorry I misunderstood you.

No worries. My fault as well: I should have been less cryptic in my comment.

 

[Davros]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It's her genetic legacy, too. .

Absolutely. It is 50/50 then.

But you can't divide a baby in half, so a woman should carry a baby fully to term if the man wants the child and is willing to fully release the woman from any continuing legal, parental, or financial responsibilities.

Unless you plan on carrying the baby in your body for half the term it isn't 50/50 by a long shot.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

The child has after all a right to know who you are so one day you will meet him or her again and be reminded that you were unable or unwilling to raise a child.

That depends on the adoption arrangement, the legalities of which differ by country, and in the US, by state as to what options are allowed.

The various degrees of open adoptions do indeed allow for renewed contact. In the most open adoptions, that contact is actually a constant, and the child grows up knowing both his or her adoptive and birth parents. In some, the adoptive parents are simply required to send periodic updates for the assurance of the birth parents, but contact is not required. In a closed adoption, that is not the case and such a right does not exist (and the adoptive parents at the most may receive only anonymized medical records).

There are many different arrangements for adoption, depending on state law and the wishes of the biological parents.

Even if the folks who adopted this child are great parents the very fact of adoption might make the child feel unwarranted by his biological parents once he learns about this during puberty (I guess that is the best age to tell).

Hiding things from an adoptive child can be destructive to trust. Most families I know that have adopted children are straightforward with their children from their early years. Better to grow up accustomed to the truth, in this philosophy, than suddenly betrayed by a lie.

Whatever you do, abort or adopt, there are painful consequences. I find it sad that people on both sides of the argument are unwilling to admit this.

There's no doubt it would be a hard and in many ways sad decision to make. But I would rather know that my child is growing up somewhere where they are happy and cared for, than to know I denied him or her a chance at life.

 

[1001001]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

My belief is that if your life plans mean ABSOLUTELY NO PREGNANCY OR CHILD EVER, then you should simply forego having any kind of sexual relationship.

Good luck with that!

 

[iguana_tonante]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But I would rather know that my child is growing up somewhere where they are happy and cared for, than to know I denied him or her a chance at life.

Excellent. Problems arise when it shifts from "I would" to "you must".

 

[Davros]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But I would rather know that my child is growing up somewhere where they are happy and cared for, than to know I denied him or her a chance at life.

Excellent. Problems arise when it shifts from "I would" to "you must".

Exactly

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Whatever you do, abort or adopt, there are painful consequences. I find it sad that people on both sides of the argument are unwilling to admit this.

There's no doubt it would be a hard and in many ways sad decision to make. But I would rather know that my child is growing up somewhere where they are happy and cared for, than to know I denied him or her a chance at life.

I guess it always boils down to the basic question of when life begins and I consider the medical view upon the beginning of human life (I am not familiar with it and doubt that it is unanimous) to be as useless as the neurochemical view upon love.
For some it begins with conception, for some it begins with birth, for some it begins somewhere in between. Is it just an overgrown egg which you are having taken away or is it already your child? I have no idea and that's why I think it should be up to women to decide this. The pressure from the extremists on both sides who try to dominate the public image that this is definitely life respectively definitely just a piece of stupid flesh is certainly not helpful.
I am usually a fairly collective guy who sees systemic problems everywhere but not in this instance. It should be a sincerely, i.e. not influenced by the above-mentioned groups, personal decision.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

The fact that men get more worked up than most women do when it comes to the subject of abortion speaks volumes about the lingering misogyny and sexism in even an advanced high-tech society such as America. That some men are perfectly happy and willing to treat their wives or girlfriends like second-class citizens or even chattel to protect an offspring they don't even have to carry in the first place never ceases to disappoint me. I have no doubt that many men love their unborn children and want to help raise them, but to express that love through behavior that violates the rights and even basic dignity if their partners isn't the answer. Men are no better than women and vice versa. Treating women like incubators on two legs whose sole purpose is to be breeding stock so your precious male seed doesn't die out isn't what America is supposed to be about and the fact that it's often carried out under the aegis of organized religion just makes it all that much more worse.

Long story short: abortion isn't pretty. Even a lot of people who support it as a choice don't particularly like it. But don't tell a grown woman what she can or can't do with her body and her reproductive organs. People like KT would scream bloody murder if women could pull that shit on men. Women are human beings. Not farm animals to do with as you please.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Without condoning or excusing it, I think that men's treatment of women as second class human incubators is largely a brutish attempt to compensate for feelings of profound insecurity. Men who feel that sort of treatment is appropriate should instead man up to the reality that they aren't in total control.

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I think you're largely right, CC. Many men all over this planet grow up believing they have an almost holy duty to run things and be in charge, and a woman's control over her own body and indeed the very future of the human race itself is a big stumbling block. Carrying, nurturing and giving birth to a new life is one of the few things men can't do, so they see it as a threat to their power. Enter the misogyny and sexism. They won't feel comfortable unless they bring the opposite sex down to a level beneath them so they can have that feeling of control that society has always taught they're supposed to have in order to be "real men."