Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
There are not pro-life, they are anti-woman.
There are not pro-life, they are anti-woman.
Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?
- Thread starter Gaith
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Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Good one, thanks for link. [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w15OS2PdCKo[/yt]
Good one, thanks for link. [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w15OS2PdCKo[/yt]
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
It's always funny how a lot of the people who are the most pro-life are the first ones to wash their hands of a child after they're born. After the baby passes through the birth canal they advocate cutting or gutting educational, WIC nutrition, pediatric care and other federal, state and local funding to make sure the wealthiest in society get another tax break. Their basic attitude seems to be "protect an unborn baby at any and all costs, but once they're born screw 'em." Let them be born, then ignore them or treat them like moochers and parasites on the system.
Sorry for the soapbox moment, but the radical pro-life attitude just rubs me the wrong way. So many people on the cultural right in this country care about a child until the moment of birth and then show more concern for two gay men kissing than a newborn baby growing up in dire poverty. It's nauseating.
It's always funny how a lot of the people who are the most pro-life are the first ones to wash their hands of a child after they're born. After the baby passes through the birth canal they advocate cutting or gutting educational, WIC nutrition, pediatric care and other federal, state and local funding to make sure the wealthiest in society get another tax break. Their basic attitude seems to be "protect an unborn baby at any and all costs, but once they're born screw 'em." Let them be born, then ignore them or treat them like moochers and parasites on the system.
Sorry for the soapbox moment, but the radical pro-life attitude just rubs me the wrong way. So many people on the cultural right in this country care about a child until the moment of birth and then show more concern for two gay men kissing than a newborn baby growing up in dire poverty. It's nauseating.
A
Amaris
Guest
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
You are absolutely correct. They'll wring their hands over the zygote, but once a child has been born, it's on it's own, and is suddenly a drain on society. It's hypocritical, sanctimonious, bullshit.
You are absolutely correct. They'll wring their hands over the zygote, but once a child has been born, it's on it's own, and is suddenly a drain on society. It's hypocritical, sanctimonious, bullshit.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
And pressure the mom to give her baby up for adoption to people with more money than she has.
And pressure the mom to give her baby up for adoption to people with more money than she has.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Amen. They don't even have any concern for the new mother's innate, wondrous connections to and with her child...they just harp and bleat about giving it up for adoption to someone "more qualified." They either don't care about or just dismissively ignore basic human biology in the wake of a birth. And yet people with this mindset routinely get elected to positions of power.
Amen. They don't even have any concern for the new mother's innate, wondrous connections to and with her child...they just harp and bleat about giving it up for adoption to someone "more qualified." They either don't care about or just dismissively ignore basic human biology in the wake of a birth. And yet people with this mindset routinely get elected to positions of power.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Efforts to force absent fathers to take fiscal responsibility for their offspring are patchy at best and frequently useless. If just getting money out of them is so difficult, imagine trying to compel them to be a parent? The reason the question of the man's role in the gestation of a fetus is so rarely discussed is because it is so rarely a problem. That sounds harsh but that is the reality.
Efforts to force absent fathers to take fiscal responsibility for their offspring are patchy at best and frequently useless. If just getting money out of them is so difficult, imagine trying to compel them to be a parent? The reason the question of the man's role in the gestation of a fetus is so rarely discussed is because it is so rarely a problem. That sounds harsh but that is the reality.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
It's a child. A human being.
If two people were responsible for creating him/her-- they are responsible afterwards. Sex leads to procreation. Intentional or not, both sides need to man up and I'm way more concerned about that child than with anyone else.
It's a child. A human being.
If two people were responsible for creating him/her-- they are responsible afterwards. Sex leads to procreation. Intentional or not, both sides need to man up and I'm way more concerned about that child than with anyone else.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
I'm progressive and largely pro-life, but I don't think there's a practical way to enforce it. It's far more dangerous to push into a black market. I would rather have abortion legalized, and discourage it publicly. I find the pro-choice movement just as nauseating, as if there is something good and moral and liberating about abortion. It is killing, straight up-- all should agree on this. The value of a life is in its potential, so I am not so dismissive about the value of a unborn child or a "zygote". This is not a religious issue, it's something we should be discussing as a society divorced from right and left politics. Legal, yes. An accepted, encouraged practice? Hell no.
I'm progressive and largely pro-life, but I don't think there's a practical way to enforce it. It's far more dangerous to push into a black market. I would rather have abortion legalized, and discourage it publicly. I find the pro-choice movement just as nauseating, as if there is something good and moral and liberating about abortion. It is killing, straight up-- all should agree on this. The value of a life is in its potential, so I am not so dismissive about the value of a unborn child or a "zygote". This is not a religious issue, it's something we should be discussing as a society divorced from right and left politics. Legal, yes. An accepted, encouraged practice? Hell no.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Everyone applauds this ideal, of course.
Everyone applauds this ideal, of course.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
I'll keep it simple, for your own convenience.
I'll keep it simple, for your own convenience.
Fetus ≠ baby.
Fetus ≠ child.
Fetus ≠ slave.
Life ≠ person.
Abortion ≠ muder.
Fantasy ≠ reality.
You are completely right. Religious people are perfectly in their right to have in interest in their own abortion and their own homosexuality. Nobody should tell them what to do with their body or their life, or legislate against them. I'm happy we are in perfect agreement about this.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Yes, but so many like KT want to regulate other people's choices. No one is forced to use contraception, have sex in or out of marriage, have homosexual relationships, or have abortions. But they are more than ready to tell others they can't do so. So much for liberty and individual rights. In their world, the only rights are those given by what ever deluded vision they have from their religion. Wanting their religious views to be able to influence government, they will be fine with government equally telling them what they can preach. And we will of course have to allow any religion to influence government, Hindu, Muslim, Native American, Wiccans... I suspect that separation clause in the First Amendment was a good idea.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
But anyway, if government and women have no rights to trump a man's control of what happens in his body, surely he couldn't be forced to take a DNA test, right?
Also, the concern from people in this thread that a child has the right to the parenting and support of both their biological parents is touching. That means of course that it should be illegal for a mother to fail to inform a man that she has had his child, right?
These notions don't seem entirely compatible with each other.
But anyway, if government and women have no rights to trump a man's control of what happens in his body, surely he couldn't be forced to take a DNA test, right?
Also, the concern from people in this thread that a child has the right to the parenting and support of both their biological parents is touching. That means of course that it should be illegal for a mother to fail to inform a man that she has had his child, right?
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Unless, of course, there was a chance of the baby having some type of defect. I have a cousin, a brother, and at least one child (my older son was never officially diagnosed) on the autistic spectrum. In this sparkly, shiny, acid-dropping world of fetuses being transplanted from birth mother to adoptive mother how many of the latter would willingly take one of mine when there would be far more fetuses available without the strong possibility of having a disability? There are babies and young toddlers available for adoption nowadays, but many of them have disabilities or are "mixed race" (ooh, the horror!). If there is a supposed shortage of babies available for adoption right now due to the vast majority of potential adoptive parents only wanting "normal" children what hope is there of fetuses with known or even potential disabilities being transferred? Time to start rebuilding those massive prison-like institutions so the acid-droppers easily distracted by pretty shiny things don't have their utopia ruined by all these not-perfect babies who will never, ever be adopted either pre-or post-birth, methinks.
Unless, of course, there was a chance of the baby having some type of defect. I have a cousin, a brother, and at least one child (my older son was never officially diagnosed) on the autistic spectrum. In this sparkly, shiny, acid-dropping world of fetuses being transplanted from birth mother to adoptive mother how many of the latter would willingly take one of mine when there would be far more fetuses available without the strong possibility of having a disability? There are babies and young toddlers available for adoption nowadays, but many of them have disabilities or are "mixed race" (ooh, the horror!). If there is a supposed shortage of babies available for adoption right now due to the vast majority of potential adoptive parents only wanting "normal" children what hope is there of fetuses with known or even potential disabilities being transferred? Time to start rebuilding those massive prison-like institutions so the acid-droppers easily distracted by pretty shiny things don't have their utopia ruined by all these not-perfect babies who will never, ever be adopted either pre-or post-birth, methinks.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Yes, a woman should inform a man when a child is born unless a court rules that there is a suitable reason for her not to.
If a woman doesn't want to keep her baby than they father should be given an opportunity to take the child and raise him/her before any attempt at adoption is made. if a man decides to raise the child than he should receive child support from the mother.
He shouldn't be forced to have a DNA test but if he doesn't after it has been ordered by a court than the court can't do much except take the woman's word that he is the father. DNA tests are more often taken to prove that a man is not the father of a child.
Yes, a woman should inform a man when a child is born unless a court rules that there is a suitable reason for her not to.
If a woman doesn't want to keep her baby than they father should be given an opportunity to take the child and raise him/her before any attempt at adoption is made. if a man decides to raise the child than he should receive child support from the mother.
He shouldn't be forced to have a DNA test but if he doesn't after it has been ordered by a court than the court can't do much except take the woman's word that he is the father. DNA tests are more often taken to prove that a man is not the father of a child.
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Knight Templar
Commodore
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
I've been hearing that from abortion rights people for years.
That "pro life people do not care about a baby after it is born".
Do you have any actual evidence of this? Any proof?
And don't say "do you have proof they do care?" because I'm not the one making a claim here.
I've been hearing that from abortion rights people for years.
That "pro life people do not care about a baby after it is born".
Do you have any actual evidence of this? Any proof?
And don't say "do you have proof they do care?" because I'm not the one making a claim here.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
So, you're ready to support any children born with schools, health care, housing, and such irrespective of state of birth?
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
The idea that a fetus is a human is, of course, completely absurd and it's annoying that this has to come up anytime there is a discussion on pregnancy. There are very simple reasons as to why the anti-abortion case fails:
1) Fetuses cannot feel any pain up through the first two trimesters.
2) There is no proof that fetuses have a soul or any such nonsense. Therefore this is not relevant to the discussion.
3) The effect of having an unwanted pregnancy is disastrous on women while the effect of having an abortion is almost non-existant.
I'm pro-abortion in the case of an unwanted pregnancy. Two people should not be forced to raise a child just because they had sex (and that's what the anti-abortion argument often comes down to- people should be punished with a child if they have sex).
The idea that a fetus is a human is, of course, completely absurd and it's annoying that this has to come up anytime there is a discussion on pregnancy. There are very simple reasons as to why the anti-abortion case fails:
1) Fetuses cannot feel any pain up through the first two trimesters.
2) There is no proof that fetuses have a soul or any such nonsense. Therefore this is not relevant to the discussion.
3) The effect of having an unwanted pregnancy is disastrous on women while the effect of having an abortion is almost non-existant.
I'm pro-abortion in the case of an unwanted pregnancy. Two people should not be forced to raise a child just because they had sex (and that's what the anti-abortion argument often comes down to- people should be punished with a child if they have sex).
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
I doubt that abortions having no effect on women, it can be quite traumatizing.
In my opinion abortions should occur as rarely as possible and as often as necessary.
About the right-wingers who wanna force a woman who has been raped to give birth to this child and thus force her to remember the rape everyday, in their own language they would be the minions of Satan.
I doubt that abortions having no effect on women, it can be quite traumatizing.
In my opinion abortions should occur as rarely as possible and as often as necessary.
About the right-wingers who wanna force a woman who has been raped to give birth to this child and thus force her to remember the rape everyday, in their own language they would be the minions of Satan.
Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility
Apparently not: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/12/08/abortion-no-effect-mental-health_n_1137905.html
Apparently not: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/12/08/abortion-no-effect-mental-health_n_1137905.html
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