Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility be?

[RoJoHen]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

There is such a thing as willpower, you know. If you choose to abstain, even a person with an average-to-strong sex drive can succeed. Just because a person eventually has sex doesn't mean that they failed at being abstinent. It means they chose to stop being abstinent. Nothing in the definition of abstinence says it has to last forever.

 

[Thestral]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

^ Exactly.

As nobody with a sane mind and an ordinary libido does abstain from sex...

Nobody eh? We're all just slaves to our sex drives?

 

[MacLeod]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

^^Beat me to it, I was just going to mention will power.

We can choose to have sex or not to have sex. We are not as a rule a slave to our emotions.

 

[horatio83]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

^ Exactly.

As nobody with a sane mind and an ordinary libido does abstain from sex...

Nobody eh? We're all just slaves to our sex drives?

That's why it is called a drive.
I am not saying that there are not some stupid monks or priests (being an ex-Catholic I know that few Catholic priests will be among these abstainers ) who abstain from sex and merely masturbate all their life. But the abstinent John or Jane Doe is either not really abstinent because he or she has a weak libido or pretends to be abstinent because he or she cannot endure not getting laid or he or she is the victim of right-wing bullshit.

But hey, if I am wrong I am sure you can explain to me why anybody with a healthy libido, good enough looks and a lack of religious indoctrination would want to be abstinent and perhaps add a few examples.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Abstinence is simply an attempt to say no sex outside of marriage, and which also often leaves off sufficient teaching methods of birth control and avoiding std's. The later being just as important for folks who aren't engaging in heterosexual intercourse.

 

[Knight Templar]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Abstinence is simply an attempt to say no sex outside of marriage, and which also often leaves off sufficient teaching methods of birth control and avoiding std's. The later being just as important for folks who aren't engaging in heterosexual intercourse.

You can advocate abstinence and still teach about birth control

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Yay, Absinthe! Better than abstinence and without self-righteous religious attitude.

Unless I've read the thread incorrectly, you're the first person to mention "religious" at all.

So, your position is that sex, marriage, and abortion are purely civil affairs and that religions have precisely nothing to say on the matter. Further, that they can shut about about gay marriage, sex, abortion, and a host of other issues that the religious hypocrites in the country are forever nattering on about.

Abstinence is simply an attempt to say no sex outside of marriage, and which also often leaves off sufficient teaching methods of birth control and avoiding std's. The later being just as important for folks who aren't engaging in heterosexual intercourse.

You can advocate abstinence and still teach about birth control

Answer the question you keep avoiding.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Oops, typing error

 

[Balrog]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

I believe the unintended consequences of this thread are +1 for both oral sex and gay sex - no babies.

 

[RoJoHen]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But hey, if I am wrong I am sure you can explain to me why anybody with a healthy libido, good enough looks and a lack of religious indoctrination would want to be abstinent and perhaps add a few examples.

It goes to the heart of this thread. The thing about being human is that, unless less-intelligent animals, we have the ability to control our drives. STDs, accidental pregnancies, religious beliefs, saving yourself for your "one true love," whatever...these are all valid reasons for abstaining from sex. It's pretty clear that contraceptives don't work 100% of the time, so depending on who you are, you may choose to abstain simply to avoid certain risks.

Most people don't abstain from sex forever. Some people simply choose to abstain until the right one comes along.

 

[JiNX-01]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Don't put your dick into a woman's vagina unless you are prepared to accept any and all potential consequences--and that includes child support.

To which I would add parenting. You don't get off the hook just because you're tossing a check to mommy every month.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Contraceptives, as has been noted, doesn't always work. Suppose two people have a one-off encounter with both parties agreeing on the use of a contraceptive, but it fails and a pregnancy occurs. If the woman decides to have the child - and no one here is suggesting she doesn't have that right - should the guy be necessarily responsible for child support?

Of course he should be. Two people made the child; two people are responsible for her well-being.

I always tell women to make their plans without any dependance on the male if they are not partnered with them and even if they are partnered with them but young. Do what you can so you are not dependent on child support checks or on them helping out, child care etc.. Save yourself the drama of them getting sick of it or finding a girlfriend who resents it or losing their job or screwing up their life and bailing. Because that is very often the reality.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It is relatively easy to collect in Australia so there shouldn't be all that many hassles. Child support is simply taken out, using the support formula, from a fathers's (sometimes the mother's) wage. Even a person on Newstart (unemployment) has to pay a small percentage in child support.

This is opposed to what it was like 30 years ago. My ex-husband never paid a penny in child support for his first five children (including my three).

 

[Tora Ziyal]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But hey, if I am wrong I am sure you can explain to me why anybody with a healthy libido, good enough looks and a lack of religious indoctrination would want to be abstinent and perhaps add a few examples.

It goes to the heart of this thread. The thing about being human is that, unless less-intelligent animals, we have the ability to control our drives. STDs, accidental pregnancies, religious beliefs, saving yourself for your "one true love," whatever...these are all valid reasons for abstaining from sex. It's pretty clear that contraceptives don't work 100% of the time, so depending on who you are, you may choose to abstain simply to avoid certain risks.

Most people don't abstain from sex forever. Some people simply choose to abstain until the right one comes along.

Good response, RoJoHen.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It is relatively easy to collect in Australia so there shouldn't be all that many hassles. Child support is simply taken out, using the support formula, from a fathers's (sometimes the mother's) wage. Even a person on Newstart (unemployment) has to pay a small percentage in child support.

This is opposed to what it was like 30 years ago. My ex-husband never paid a penny in child support for his first five children (including my three).

They get out of it by making themselves into a company and having all their wages paid to the company. Ask me how I know. Currently owed over 80k in child support though if he actually filed his taxes I'm sure it would be a lot more. Unlike the US you don't go to jail or suffer any consequences from avoiding it.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It takes two to make the choice to have sex. It should take two to raise the child. Neither party should be able to abdicate the responsibility resulting from their choices.

As for the baby, the child is a separate life with his or her own genetic code from the moment of conception (not to be equated with a tumor or a parasite before anyone tries that), and he or she did not make the choice to be conceived in what might be considered less-than-ideal circumstances. Murdering the child because of circumstances out of his or her control is wholly unacceptable to me. If there are circumstances making it impossible for the parents to raise their child, then he or she can be given up for adoption. Planning for that while the pregnancy is still ongoing will provide the best chances of the child being placed into a good home.

Personally, I would like to hope that research would someday allow such unwanted children to be implanted into surrogate mothers, or even the women themselves who are unable to have children. I suspect that an artificial womb is much further away than those procedures. But that is another avenue I would like to hope could be pursued. If those procedures could be perfected within a reasonable degree, then all possible justifications for abortion aside from a serious health issue would be eliminated.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It is relatively easy to collect in Australia so there shouldn't be all that many hassles. Child support is simply taken out, using the support formula, from a fathers's (sometimes the mother's) wage. Even a person on Newstart (unemployment) has to pay a small percentage in child support.

This is opposed to what it was like 30 years ago. My ex-husband never paid a penny in child support for his first five children (including my three).

They get out of it by making themselves into a company and having all their wages paid to the company. Ask me how I know. Currently owed over 80k in child support though if he actually filed his taxes I'm sure it would be a lot more. Unlike the US you don't go to jail or suffer any consequences from avoiding it.

But the majority of Australian men do not do this.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

Did I say the majority did? I'm just saying that it can be avoided relatively simply. I know quite a few situations like this. There is a very large loophole in the law and not a lot they can do about it at this point.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

It takes two to make the choice to have sex. It should take two to raise the child. Neither party should be able to abdicate the responsibility resulting from their choices.

As for the baby, the child is a separate life with his or her own genetic code from the moment of conception (not to be equated with a tumor or a parasite before anyone tries that), and he or she did not make the choice to be conceived in what might be considered less-than-ideal circumstances. Murdering the child because of circumstances out of his or her control is wholly unacceptable to me. If there are circumstances making it impossible for the parents to raise their child, then he or she can be given up for adoption. Planning for that while the pregnancy is still ongoing will provide the best chances of the child being placed into a good home.

Personally, I would like to hope that research would someday allow such unwanted children to be implanted into surrogate mothers, or even the women themselves who are unable to have children. I suspect that an artificial womb is much further away than those procedures. But that is another avenue I would like to hope could be pursued. If those procedures could be perfected within a reasonable degree, then all possible justifications for abortion aside from a serious health issue would be eliminated.

Even if embryos could be implanted I doubt very much there would be enough women volunteering to take all the unwanted embryos. Even now not all donor eggs left over from IVF are used.

If artificial wombs could be used who would raise the children?

 

[Thestral]

Re: Unexpected/unwanted pregnancies: what should guys' responsibility

But hey, if I am wrong I am sure you can explain to me why anybody with a healthy libido, good enough looks and a lack of religious indoctrination would want to be abstinent and perhaps add a few examples.

It goes to the heart of this thread. The thing about being human is that, unless less-intelligent animals, we have the ability to control our drives. STDs, accidental pregnancies, religious beliefs, saving yourself for your "one true love," whatever...these are all valid reasons for abstaining from sex. It's pretty clear that contraceptives don't work 100% of the time, so depending on who you are, you may choose to abstain simply to avoid certain risks.

Most people don't abstain from sex forever. Some people simply choose to abstain until the right one comes along.

Good response, RoJoHen.

Agreed.