Star Wars: The Clone Wars S4

[Christopher]

In some ways, this cartoon either avoids the errors of the prequels or renders them harmless because, hey, it's a childrens' cartoon this time and can get away with it.

The Clone Wars is rated TV-PG-V, which means "may be unsuitable for children under the age of 9 or 10 without the guidance of a parent" due to violent content. It's by far the most violent show on Cartoon Network, with frequent and relatively graphic killings. I don't think it's valid to consider it a show intended for children.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ Well, you'd know better than me, I guess. I assumed it was geared primarily toward (older) children, given some of the humour (battle droid antics and such). I did imagine it would carry some sort of advisory given, as you say, the violence, and I knew it was intended to appeal to a broader viewing audience (Star Wars fans of all ages, for one) but I also thought it had older children in mind as its core audience. But that was just my immediate assumption, and I'll defer to those of you who know the series and its background better.

PS: I hope I haven't grazed upon the edge of the "cartoon animation is only for children" fallacy.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

In the earlier seasons there was more hesitation towards showing the good guys killing anything besides droids. That's now been dropped, which I think is a good thing. I've never liked the idea of depicting sanitized warfare, not even for children. Maybe especially not for children.

I just started watching this show, I avoided it for ages as I am not a PT fan, but it really is pretty damn cool.

Welcome aboard. I initially wasn't sold on the whole idea, because I thought the PT was crap, but when I heard that the show was rewriting Anakin so he wasn't a whiny creep, I had to check it out...

 

[Deranged Nasat]

In the earlier seasons there was more hesitation towards showing the good guys killing anything besides droids.

Oh, I see; so it gets more ambiguously violent, then? No doubt my assumptions would have different had I seen more than a single season.

 

[Christopher]

Our friend had vast sets of lego, including Star Wars and Harry Potter, and we raided it all to build cities and large casts of characters that then interacted.
...
It was generally agreed that the standout character was my man "Joe", who was basically a cross between (I'm not kidding here) Indiana Jones and Joe Pasquale. I was an odd fellow.

I wonder, is it even possible anymore to find Lego sets that aren't licensed tie-ins? That are just pure Legos with no other identity superimposed?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ I wouldn't know, sadly. My friend wasn't too interested in playing Star Wars or Harry Potter, he just thought they had the best sets and figures. I did have a box of plain, simple lego (older stuff?) that sometimes substituted if we were over my and my sister's place rather than his. There weren't as many figures there, so our characters tended to be less humanoid.

 

[I Grok Spock]

I wonder, is it even possible anymore to find Lego sets that aren't licensed tie-ins? That are just pure Legos with no other identity superimposed?

Yes

 

[timothy]

no star wars on this week damn.

 

[JD]

In some ways, this cartoon either avoids the errors of the prequels or renders them harmless because, hey, it's a childrens' cartoon this time and can get away with it.

The Clone Wars is rated TV-PG-V, which means "may be unsuitable for children under the age of 9 or 10 without the guidance of a parent" due to violent content. It's by far the most violent show on Cartoon Network, with frequent and relatively graphic killings. I don't think it's valid to consider it a show intended for children.

^ Well, you'd know better than me, I guess. I assumed it was geared primarily toward (older) children, given some of the humour (battle droid antics and such). I did imagine it would carry some sort of advisory given, as you say, the violence, and I knew it was intended to appeal to a broader viewing audience (Star Wars fans of all ages, for one) but I also thought it had older children in mind as its core audience. But that was just my immediate assumption, and I'll defer to those of you who know the series and its background better.

PS: I hope I haven't grazed upon the edge of the "cartoon animation is only for children" fallacy.

There are actually some fairly graphic (well PG-graphic) deaths in later seasons. One scene in a recent episode showed Ahsoka do a big spin that decapitated several people.

 

[Destructor]

I think we can all admit that Star Wars, the movies and the show, are primarily for kids (not that adults can't, and do, enjoy them!). Kids actually don't mind the odd bit of decapitation.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think we can all admit that Star Wars, the movies and the show, are primarily for kids (not that adults can't, and do, enjoy them!).

No, we can't agree to that, especially in the case of the films. We have a better chance of agreeing that they are designed to appeal to people of all ages. You'll have to show me a head count of movie goers to support your assertion.

We have a fair chance of agreeing that certain types of merchandise are marketed primarily to kids. However, before I agree even to anything, I'd like to see a breakdown of who's buying merchandise and for whom. I'm sure adult collectors are scoring a sizable chunk of some merchandise ostensibly marketed to kids. For example, our own cooleddie74 has quite a collection:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=5424250&postcount=6762
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=5846950&postcount=8409

In addition, certain collector items are quite pricey and obviously intended for adults.

Not to mention, here we are, most of us adults, discussing minutia in a cartoon.

 

[Christopher]

Well, we know that the original Star Wars was meant to be a tribute to the Saturday-matinee adventure serials of the '30s and '40s, a genre that was aimed largely at children, though of course going to the cinema those days was a family experience with something for everyone. And his target audience was probably as much nostalgic adults as their children. Still, the intent was to make something that catered to the interests of children. That's less the case with The Empire Strikes Back, but it kind of returns with fuzzy Ewok vengeance in Return of the Jedi. And The Phantom Menace was overtly and explicitly intended by Lucas to appeal to children, to be their "entry-level" Star Wars experience, although the two remaining prequels skewed older -- similarly to how the Harry Potter books get more mature with successive installments on the theory that the audience brought in by the first book got older with each subsequent book (and of course to reflect the characters' aging as well).

 

[Hound of UIster]

I think we can all admit that Star Wars, the movies and the show, are primarily for kids (not that adults can't, and do, enjoy them!). Kids actually don't mind the odd bit of decapitation.

That is true.

http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=7113-1

 

[CorporalCaptain]

OK, this article from March 1979 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE does pretty much prove the point that the original film was specifically engineered for children. It's an interesting read. Since Lucas is on the record in 1979 here saying these things, I'm going to have to cave and agree to the point.

Before reading this article, my main difficulties came from the question of how to parse the word "primarily". For instance, very obviously, no child in 1977 was alive for the serials in the 30's and 40's. So, it was hard me to reconcile the idea that Star Wars is a tribute to those serials with the idea that it's "primarily for kids". But I suppose the main idea is that if kids liked it in the 30's and 40's, then kids in the 70's'll like the same sort of thing.

Now there are some dangling strings in the article, such as the precise demographics of the young summer audience known to exist. Obviously it involves kids out of school for the summer, but in 1977 what fraction were also young adults out of college for the summer? Also, who were the "$8 million worth of science fiction freaks in the USA" they referred to, and how much did they end up spending? Since 12 and older counts as an adult in the US for the purpose of ticket sales, I suspect it may be problematic to get accurate statistics on demographics by age in the audience.

 

[Saul]

I think we can all admit that Star Wars, the movies and the show, are primarily for kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj9aaEl0DIo&feature=related

Yep! and the above clip demonstrates that this is stuff made for kids...

 

[Yevetha]

I wouldnt call the Krell tetralogy something that is just for kids.

 

[Christopher]

OK, this article from March 1979 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE does pretty much prove the point that the original film was specifically engineered for children. It's an interesting read. Since Lucas is on the record in 1979 here saying these things, I'm going to have to cave and agree to the point.

I'm surprised that was ever in question. As someone who was a kid when the original movie first came out, I find it interesting to realize how much perceptions of Star Wars have changed over the decades. So much mythology, internal and external, has accreted onto the franchise that I guess a lot about its beginnings has been forgotten or obscured.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

As I said, what was in question had, and in a sense still has, to do with who's forking over the money. There was never any question that Star Wars was intended to appeal to kids. My issues solely had/have to do with the parsing of the word "primary".

Further evidence that the question is worth considering is the fact that for allegedly kid-targeted entertainment, Star Wars pioneered bearing a PG rating. Back in the day, that raised some eyebrows, mainly of parents questioning out loud whether it was OK for children (but in the deciding it was OK, since it wasn't rated R).

But since Lucas has copped to specifically targeting kids, as opposed to people of all ages, then that, as they say, settles that.

 

[Marc]

As I said, what was in question had, and in a sense still has, to do with who's forking over the money. There was never any question that Star Wars was intended to appeal to kids. My issues solely had/have to do with the parsing of the word "primary".

Further evidence that the question is worth considering is the fact that for allegedly kid-targeted entertainment, Star Wars pioneered bearing a PG rating. Back in the day, that raised some eyebrows, mainly of parents questioning out loud whether it was OK for children (but in the deciding it was OK, since it wasn't rated R).

But since Lucas has copped to specifically targeting kids, as opposed to people of all ages, then that, as they say, settles that.

I seem to recall that Lucas included the burning remains of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru to push the rating to PG because he believed that if it was G rated, no-one would go to see it?

Thus if you're making something aimed at kids you'd want the rating that is most kid friendly.

But Lucas's problem with these claims is that the end of the day he's got little credibility cos he keeps changing his stories.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Follow up point to my previous post about PG ratings. Today, R seems to be the new PG, so it may be hard to imagine that Jaws (1975) was the preexisting standard of a PG-rated blockbuster in 1977, a film widely regarded as unsuitable for children.

But Lucas's problem with these claims is that the end of the day he's got little credibility cos he keeps changing his stories.

Yeah, I'm glad I wasn't the first to go there. I almost did, to tell you the truth. Qualify my remarks that Lucas copped to primarily targeting kids as the 1979 version of what he was up to.