The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[DostoyevskyClone]

I haven't posted at the BBS for a while now, but the news of this new release has got me excited.

I think TPTB missed an interesting opportunity here: they could have let fans vote which elements (if any) should be 'changed'...

"1. Do you want us to correct obvious errors (phasers firing out of the wrong place, etc.)?

2. Do you want us to recreate new shots for shots that were blatant reuses (Angel One, the same ship being used again and again, etc.)?

Etc. etc."

It's clear from this thread that they aren't going to please everyone, but at least this way they could have have satisfied the majority.

Personally, since I already have all seven seasons on DVD, I'm hoping we'll see a little more variety when it comes to shots that were blatantly reused multiple times. Put me in the camp that says: "When there is an obvious error, fix it!"

 

[Skywalker]

They're not upscaling anything unless they absolutely have to (such as if the original film for a scene is completely gone, like with that 13 or 14 seconds of "Sins of the Father.")

 

[TheSeeker]

This is all sounding like a "Not Buy" for me. I dont want to see 80-90's CGI but just upscaled. I want new, crisp, sharp and more resolution fx. I would like mistakes fixed like phasers coming from Photon tubes.
This sounds like a waste of an effort...

Have you even read this thread? This is not what they are doing.

 

[Sho]

This is all sounding like a "Not Buy" for me. I dont want to see 80-90's CGI but just upscaled. I want new, crisp, sharp and more resolution fx. I would like mistakes fixed like phasers coming from Photon tubes.
This sounds like a waste of an effort...

This is all sounding like a "Hasn't read" to me.

 

[Hober Mallow]

This is all sounding like a "Not Buy" for me. I dont want to see 80-90's CGI but just upscaled... This sounds like a waste of an effort...

1) That's not at all what they're doing, and

2) The effort is about making the show HD, which is hardly effort wasted.

 

[Corran Horn]

I agree RAMA, and I don't think he was dissing TOS-R at all, it's a shame it is misconstrued that way. He is close with all the guys he is working with again on TNG-R.

I read it as definitely taking a shot at TOS-R and changing the 'original vision' of some of the shots. Can't quite see how that can be taken any other way.

 

[Bonzo the Fifth]

This is all sounding like a "Not Buy" for me. I dont want to see 80-90's CGI but just upscaled... This sounds like a waste of an effort...

1) That's not at all what they're doing, and

2) The effort is about making the show HD, which is hardly effort wasted.

Yeah, from what I understand actual 'EFFECTS' will be redone, likely in CGI. The part that's being faithfully recreated is the model shots, of which, apparently the original 35mm film elements still exist, so they can be restored and remastered. So why not? I would have supported this had the elements existed for TOS, but they didn't, so it made sense that, since they had to start the FX from scratch, they should try to do things a bit differently. It's not like they threw out TOS's effects shots, they no longer (or possibly never) existed in a film form that could have been remastered in this way.

TNG, it would seem, has those shots on film. This just refers to model shots, though (and presumably matte paintings and the like, I suppose), but things like phaser shots, planets, and such should be fair game for recompositing, I imagine, since those were post production effects that wouldn't be on the original film. And since most of those are the result of early stage CGI, I don't think anyone in their right mind is attached to saving that footage... that'd be like trying to save the original FX elements from Babylon 5... madness.

 

[Bonzo the Fifth]

I don't need to see a lot of new content. I was very happy when I heard they were going to be using the original filmed elements but the fact remains they will still need to recreate all the F/X which were created on video which includes the phasers coming from the photon torpedo tube. What you are arguing for is for them to recreate this error.

Yeah, I think it's important for folks to remember that F/X in this case aren't going to be the same thing as it was in TOS-R. In the first project, they had to CGI everything that WASN'T a live action shot, since the model shots or anything else didn't exist in a usable form. For TNG, obviously, more elements existed than that, the model shots in particular seem to be still extant. That means the actual shots will be faithful to the original, which should please the purists, but that post-production effects, like energy shots, planets, etc, will have to be redone using CGI. This means that for 'mistakes' like the phaser in the torpedo tube thing, it's going to have to be re-done anyhow, since that isn't part of the restored footage. So why not fix it? It doesn't change the context of the scene any, and it'll please some of the more anal retentive continuity fans, I don't think any of the original production staff will have their artistic sensibilities offended, and it'll require the exact same effort as slavishly recreating the incorrect shot.

It certainly doesn't sound like something that should be anyone's dealbreaker on this. After all, it sounds like there's a lot of respect going into this, and with the model footage in a restorable state, there really isn't a lot here for people to get upset over being RUINED FOREVER, unlike TOS-R.

 

[Jefferies]

...It's not like they threw out TOS's effects shots, they no longer (or possibly never) existed in a film form that could have been remastered in this way...

Bonzo what are you on about? Every second of TOS exists neatly edited on film. The original FX ist still there. Check out the blu rays you can switch between the old and new and both are in HD. The reason they redid the effects was because they felt the old stuff just wasn't up to the task anymore not because it couldn't be remastered.

 

[Hober Mallow]

It's not like they threw out TOS's effects shots, they no longer (or possibly never) existed in a film form that could have been remastered in this way.

Actually, not only did they exist, the original FXwere remastered in HD. I've got the HD remastered episodes on bluray with all the original FX in HD as well.

 

[NewHorizon]

The reason they redid the effects was because they felt the old stuff just wasn't up to the task anymore not because it couldn't be remastered.

Not 'entirely' accurate.

The reason they remade the effects in CGI is because the 'original' uncomposited elements no longer exist for TOS. Yes, the finished shots still exist, but remastering those is not anywhere near the same thing as what they're doing with TNG:R. The TNG materials consist of all the 'layers' filmed with the ship models, before they are laid on top of each other for the finished scene. If those original elements had existed for TOS:R, they could have rescanned them and recomposited them with modern techniques as well. I'm sure it would have looked quite beautiful since they would be able to put new planets and phaser shots into those scenes as well.

 

[ALF]

We already have the original show preserved on DVD.

In all its Standard Definition glory!

And it looks really, really reallly bad. Muddy as hell. We all know why... but after these sexy film-based HD dandies are released I can't imagine watching the SD version again for any other reason than to pretend it is the late 1980s.



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[Hober Mallow]

And it looks really, really reallly bad. Muddy as hell. We all know why... but after these sexy film-based HD dandies are released I can't imagine watching the SD version again for any other reason than to pretend it is the late 1980s again.

Absolutely. That shot is fantastic. Can't wait for the blu-ray.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Frankly, this project has got me seriously considering getting a Blu-Ray so I can get in on the fun.

Y'see, I don't have any TNG on hand, except for a couple of VHS cassettes hidden away somewhere.

 

[Captain Robert April]

The reason they redid the effects was because they felt the old stuff just wasn't up to the task anymore not because it couldn't be remastered.

Not 'entirely' accurate.

The reason they remade the effects in CGI is because the 'original' uncomposited elements no longer exist for TOS. Yes, the finished shots still exist, but remastering those is not anywhere near the same thing as what they're doing with TNG:R. The TNG materials consist of all the 'layers' filmed with the ship models, before they are laid on top of each other for the finished scene. If those original elements had existed for TOS:R, they could have rescanned them and recomposited them with modern techniques as well. I'm sure it would have looked quite beautiful since they would be able to put new planets and phaser shots into those scenes as well.

Might've also taken care of those disappearing nacelle struts and the garbage mattes that started to become visible with the advent of higher resolution tv sets.

But then, we'd still be stuck with the mixing of pilot footage with regular production footage, and other missed opportunities like the ship slingshotting around the sun in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" (something that was addressed beautifully in the remastered version).

 

[Maurice]

...and other missed opportunities like the ship slingshotting around the sun in "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" (something that was addressed beautifully in the remastered version).

That was wretchedly done. The "Sun" looked like a glowy planet, and the Enterprise wasn't even lit right to look like it was anywhere near a superbright object.

 

[Start Wreck]

That was wretchedly done. The "Sun" looked like a glowy planet, and the Enterprise wasn't even lit right to look like it was anywhere near a superbright object.

Agreed. That was one of my least favourite new FX shots.

---

Back to TNG, can someone find a screenshot of the incorrect phaser beam from Darmok and see if the proper phaser strip is also in a usable part of the shot? I can't recall exactly how it looked from memory. It might not be possible to fix the mistake if the beam would look weirdly off-centre or something.

EDIT: Ah, is this it?

 

[TheSeeker]

^It's gotta be.

 

[Squiggy]

That's it.

It's also using the oft-decried 4 foot model.

 

[Start Wreck]

It's quite a good shot, as I recall - just wrong!
They could totally fix that, though. The phaser strip is visible, isn't it? The end of it, anyway (near the neck).