Jonathan Frakes: "TATV an unpleasent memory"

[Alrik]

TATV wasn't as awful as it was lackluster. As I said, not even close to Shades of Grey bad, or Sub Rosa bad, or Looking For Par Mach in All The Wrong Places bad, or Fistful Of Datas bad....

I hear what you are saying. To each, their own. For me, there is no argument that will change my feeling on TATV. I have been a Trek fan for going on 40 years. I have seen every episode and movie. If Shades of Grey or Sub Rosa is on, I'll probably watch. I might even sit through Threshold again. But out of the entire body of work that is Star Trek (and it has its share of clunkers), the only thing that I refuse to watch again is TATV (and possibly Nemesis). The only thing about TATV that I didn't absolutely hate was the "Space, the final frontier" montage at the end.

But that's just me and my tastes. If you and others like it, good for you. Doesn't bother me a bit. Just understand, there are a great many, like me, that despise it and there is nothing that will change that. As I said, to each their own.

 

[number6]

I can sit through TATV. For all the hate and hyperbole, it simply isn't that bad. Can't say that about much of Voyager and a good half of TNG.

And yes to each their own, but we don't need to start a new thread about it once a month.

 

[Mach5]

And yes to each their own, but we don't need to start a new thread about it once a month.

And we're certainly not, in any way, being forced to post in threads we don't approve of.

 

[cooleddie74]

For the record? The two Irish holodeck episodes of VOYAGER rank as my all-time least favorite episodes of any TREK series. Ever. "TATV" was a romp in the park compared to those two nougated deer turds dipped in skunk juice. To this day I can't rewatch either of those. They were dumber than "Spock's Brain" and only one-tenth as entertaining.

 

[number6]

And Frakes himself is an actor like anyone else who wants to WORK. Naturally when he gets the call from Berman to put the space suit back on he's going to do it and be happy about it. Remember how he used to rag on how crappy and boring DS9 was?? He sure shut the hell up once Thomas Riker got to make an appearance. Actors are whores.

 

[Mach5]

They were dumber than "Spock's Brain" and only one-tenth as entertaining.

Try 1%. I hated every single second of that horror.

 

[cooleddie74]

They were dumber than "Spock's Brain" and only one-tenth as entertaining.

Try 1%. I hated every single second of that horror.

I haven't seen many lists of best or worst VOYAGER episodes lately...do the fans list the Irish holodeck stories near the bottom? Because I'd place them dead last...#171 and #172 respectively. They made "Threshold" seem like high art funded by the NEA.

 

[number6]

I thought Threshold was ok.

 

[cooleddie74]

Compared to those two episodes it was. I'll take Janeway and Tom mutating into lizards over the Captain snogging with a drunken holodeck character anyday.

 

[Sci]

Not to belittle the JF lovers here, but nobody forced him to do TATV. If he really had a problem with it from the get-go, why did he do it (besides the obvious monetary reason and working again with Sirtis)?

If I had to guess, I'd think that he was just fine with doing it at the time, just like Berman and Braga really thought they were doing something nice for Trek fans at the time, and only in retrospect, like B&B, is he stating that it was a bad idea.

Often, in both TV and film, the project you sign on to ends up being different to what is released.

That's been pointed out. Still, I stand by what I wrote. Whether Frakes knew what the script was or not was irrelevant. If I were Frakes and had just been asked by B&B to star in the series finale of ENT, the first thing I would have asked was, "Why are Riker and Troi on a Trek show that has nothing to do with them and isn't even the same time period as TNG?" I highly doubt that Frakes knew absolutely nothing about ENT that he wouldn't have at least posed this question and gotten the answer that it takes place in the holodeck of TNG, and that the main ENT crew were just holograms in his program, even if he didn't know the particulars of the script. So as I said before, I'm sure he thought it was a great idea at the time.

We can both spin scenarios till the cows come up, but the fact of the matter is that you and I do not know. I suggested one scenario just to illustrate a potential alternative, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true -- and neither necessarily is yours. We shouldn't be assuming anything.

 

[Dukhat]

We can both spin scenarios till the cows come up, but the fact of the matter is that you and I do not know. I suggested one scenario just to illustrate a potential alternative, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true -- and neither necessarily is yours. We shouldn't be assuming anything.

I never said I knew the facts. I made it quite clear that it was my opinion that Frakes thought it was a good idea at the time.

 

[Sci]

We can both spin scenarios till the cows come up, but the fact of the matter is that you and I do not know. I suggested one scenario just to illustrate a potential alternative, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily true -- and neither necessarily is yours. We shouldn't be assuming anything.

I never said I knew the facts. I made it quite clear that it was my opinion that Frakes thought it was a good idea at the time.

In other words, you're making stuff up.

 

[Alrik]

I can sit through TATV. For all the hate and hyperbole, it simply isn't that bad.

Again, in your opinion. You liked it. I get that. What I don't understand is why those who do give it a pass seem to think that just because they liked it everyone else should as well. If everyone's tastes were identical, this would be a very boring planet.

Can't say that about much of Voyager and a good half of TNG.

Perfect example. I've literally watched every episode of TNG more times than I can count. If I'm flipping through the channels and hit on a TNG episode, I'm watching. No matter what one it is. Am I going to try to sell you on what I feel are the merits of the half of TNG you don't care for? Not in this lifetime.

And yes to each their own, but we don't need to start a new thread about it once a month.

This is a thread started about what one of the lead actors thought about being involved, not about bashing TATV. It just so happens that there are very strong feelings on both sides linked to TATV, so any thread involving it generally heads down that path.

As to the original topic, I'm with those who believe that Frakes probably didn't fully know what he was getting himself into prior to signing. He was likely just jazzed at getting the chance to play Riker one more time.

 

[number6]

Who gave it a pass?? I just object to the level of hyperbole. It's not an abomination or horror.. It's just a television episode. Sure it was disappointing, but what is the point of trotting out the same people hyperventilating about the rape of their childhoods and whatnot?? People seem to think that Frakes would have been better off telling Berman to piss up a rope don't understand how things work in real life.

 

[cooleddie74]

I think you misunderstand me. I don't ACTUALLY believe that "TATV" is an actual abomination or travesty. I'm not prone to that level of hyperbole and overreaction. It was just such a thudding disappointment and so poorly written after investing four years in the series that I felt supremely let down by the Beebs. That's all. Yeah, it sucked. But there are a million and one things in life that blow harder than the final episode of a canceled TV show.

 

[number6]

Crack whores?

 

[cooleddie74]

If you go to the right ones...yes.

 

[Alrik]

Good example.


Cooleddie pretty much summed up my thoughts as well. After watching Trek for 35 years, TATV just left me feeling like 'wtf was that?'

 

[The Dominion]

TATV wasn't as awful as it was lackluster. As I said, not even close to Shades of Grey bad, or Sub Rosa bad, or Looking For Par Mach in All The Wrong Places bad, or Fistful Of Datas bad....

Par Mach Was awesome though, and fistful of Datas was fun as well. Sub Rosa was "eh", and I'll give you Shades of Grey.

 

[cooleddie74]

"Shades of Grey" is probably the worst of all 178 episodes of TNG. Its whole reason for existence is due to the show's budget having been all but spent by the end of the second season and the producers needing at least one more episode to round out the year. It shows. Endless and boring stock footage wrapped inside a story about Riker having been infected by some lameass venomous plant. Jonathan Frakes being strapped down to a biobed in Sickbay for the entire episode. Ick. For such an expensive and lavish series, this episode looked cheaper than a ten-dollar bottle of wine.