Jonathan Frakes: "TATV an unpleasent memory"

[number6]

A celibate 15+ year old kitten??

 

[sonak]

While I'm not a fan of TATV, I think the criticism of it has gotten way over the top. It's nowhere close to worst ENT episode, just a poor series finale. "ANIS" for example, is much, much worse.

 

[number6]

ANIS was a fun episode. I never understood the hate. Precious Cargo, however...
No episode of Enterprise ever got Shades of Grey bad.

 

[cooleddie74]

As much as I disliked it, "ANiS" was definitely superior to the finale in almost every measurable respect. At least it didn't resort to crossovers and cameos from other TREK series to take attention away from the ENT series leads. And as disappointing as "ANiS" was in my eyes at least it didn't kill off anyone in a gut-wrenchingly idiotic and unsatisfying manner.

 

[number6]

It was a good comedic romp. I don't know why people take ANIS so very awfully seriously. It's pretty clear that it wasn't mean to be.

 

[Mach5]

ANiS was a 43 minute long embarrassment, and TATV was a 43 minute long mental illness with long lasting effects.

FACT: there are no TATV apologists among the people involved any more, apart from, ironically, Connor Trinneer. Go figure.

 

[number6]

I refuse to apologize for being entertained.

 

[Admiral Shran]

ANIS was a fun episode. I never understood the hate. Precious Cargo, however...

ANIS was a fun little romp. It had some problems, but overall was enjoyable.

Precious Cargo was also a fun little romp. It also had some problems, but was overall enjoyable.

TATV was awful in just about every conceivable way I can think of.

 

[number6]

TATV wasn't as awful as it was lackluster. As I said, not even close to Shades of Grey bad, or Sub Rosa bad, or Looking For Par Mach in All The Wrong Places bad, or Fistful Of Datas bad....

 

[Deckerd]

Saying it again isn't going to convince anyone.

 

[Mach5]

Saying it again isn't going to convince anyone.

This.

TATV wasn't as awful as it was lackluster.

There was no horror. It was a simply a lackluster episode.

I just see TATV a little differently, I guess.. I think of it as a coda to the series.. Lackluster? Sure, but certainly not the worst episode of all of Star Trek.

I didn't hate TATV, but I was disappointed that the finale for a franchise was so lackluster.

The decisions that B&B made vis-a-vis TATV are only "painfully obvious" to those who are blind with rage and hatred for these men. The episode was lackluster, but I didn't hate it.

TATV wasn't nearly as bad as people around here would have you believe...
...Its disingenuous to point to a lackluster finale to argue the quality of the writing of the show.

Surely, the message got through by now.

 

[number6]

Not to any of you, apparently.

 

[Mach5]

Not to any of you, apparently.

Are you saying you weren't just expressing your personal opinion, but you were also trying to influence ours?

 

[number6]

Is that a sentence?

 

[cooleddie74]

"Precious Cargo" was cheesy and awful. "ANiS" was atrocious but had a core of a good idea in it. "TATV" was just a lazy surrender and displayed inconsideration to fans on a level rarely seen in a TREK movie or television episode. One was just plain boring. The next was just damned annoying. The third was a fricking betrayal.

 

[number6]

It's all pointless hyperbole.

 

[FordSVT]

Not to belittle the JF lovers here, but nobody forced him to do TATV. If he really had a problem with it from the get-go, why did he do it (besides the obvious monetary reason and working again with Sirtis)?

If I had to guess, I'd think that he was just fine with doing it at the time, just like Berman and Braga really thought they were doing something nice for Trek fans at the time, and only in retrospect, like B&B, is he stating that it was a bad idea.

Often, in both TV and film, the project you sign on to ends up being different to what is released.

 

[Dukhat]

Not to belittle the JF lovers here, but nobody forced him to do TATV. If he really had a problem with it from the get-go, why did he do it (besides the obvious monetary reason and working again with Sirtis)?

If I had to guess, I'd think that he was just fine with doing it at the time, just like Berman and Braga really thought they were doing something nice for Trek fans at the time, and only in retrospect, like B&B, is he stating that it was a bad idea.

Often, in both TV and film, the project you sign on to ends up being different to what is released.

That's been pointed out. Still, I stand by what I wrote. Whether Frakes knew what the script was or not was irrelevant. If I were Frakes and had just been asked by B&B to star in the series finale of ENT, the first thing I would have asked was, "Why are Riker and Troi on a Trek show that has nothing to do with them and isn't even the same time period as TNG?" I highly doubt that Frakes knew absolutely nothing about ENT that he wouldn't have at least posed this question and gotten the answer that it takes place in the holodeck of TNG, and that the main ENT crew were just holograms in his program, even if he didn't know the particulars of the script. So as I said before, I'm sure he thought it was a great idea at the time.

 

[RandyS]

It was a good comedic romp. I don't know why people take ANIS so very awfully seriously. It's pretty clear that it wasn't mean to be.

Well, I glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. Hell, even TATV wasn't that bad. Granted, neither episode will ever be considered classics and rightfully so, but they weren't travesties either.

 

[Cyke101]

Not to belittle the JF lovers here, but nobody forced him to do TATV. If he really had a problem with it from the get-go, why did he do it (besides the obvious monetary reason and working again with Sirtis)?

If I had to guess, I'd think that he was just fine with doing it at the time, just like Berman and Braga really thought they were doing something nice for Trek fans at the time, and only in retrospect, like B&B, is he stating that it was a bad idea.

Often, in both TV and film, the project you sign on to ends up being different to what is released.

That's been pointed out. Still, I stand by what I wrote. Whether Frakes knew what the script was or not was irrelevant. If I were Frakes and had just been asked by B&B to star in the series finale of ENT, the first thing I would have asked was, "Why are Riker and Troi on a Trek show that has nothing to do with them and isn't even the same time period as TNG?" I highly doubt that Frakes knew absolutely nothing about ENT that he wouldn't have at least posed this question and gotten the answer that it takes place in the holodeck of TNG, and that the main ENT crew were just holograms in his program, even if he didn't know the particulars of the script. So as I said before, I'm sure he thought it was a great idea at the time.

I dunno, I wonder if Frakes signed on before he even received a script -- sometimes that happens in TV and film as well. Also, though O'Brien and Yar aren't as well known as Riker, having Colm Meany and Denise Crosby on TNG's finale shouldn't make sense at first, but it did in the end (thanks, time travel!) and helped make a fine product. So it's not like having characters from other shows in a finale hasn't been done before.