6x02 Day of the Moon (Grading/Discussion) (SPOILERS!!)

[kitkat]

OK, so I probably should've read the whole thread but I'm just going to throw this out there and y'all can give me whatever education needs to be given...

So, is it possible that Amy is just like...a "carrier" or something? I mean, is that how Time Lords are reproduced? That it doesn't have to be anything sexual; it's just a matter of survival, etc.

I don't know a whole lot of history of the show. My first season watching was the one with Eccleston and I couldn't watch much of it with Tennant because I don't like him. But I watched all of last season (at DAK's urging ).

i don't think we've ever seen how Timelords reproduce, all we know is that the Doctor had a Granddaughter, Susan, so he must have had a child, perhaps this little girl his the Doctors daughter, but not Jenny.

I kind of assume Timelords reproduce the same way we do.

Thanks. That's kind of what I was wondering if we've ever been told how they reproduce. You're probably right but, ultimately, they aren't human so that doesn't have to be the way they reproduce, right?

 

[RevdKathy]

that isn't how it really is though

I know. Just like Irish aren't stupid, and Finns have a sense of humour, and not all Brit drink tea. Personally, I think it was silly making the plot depend on it in this story, but 'kill on sight' doesn't work in an enviroment where very few people go armed.

 

[Cyke101]

There are historians who would argue that American supremacy has been more on paper than in reality in a gentle but steady decline since... well, about 1969. China is now possibly the most powerful nation economically. And have their own space programme. And I bet very few there have seen that clip.

Upon rewatching Waters of Mars a couple weeks ago, I was surprised that I missed the throwaway line of one of the crew guessing a Filipino ship made it to Mars. As a Filipino-American, I had to smile.


Also, I believe the Fourth Doctor fought with the Filipino army in the future against Iceland. That's TWO!

I've never thought that America was superior or held any supremacy, and I'm an American /shrug

Our space program now has gone to the dogs, NASA simply doesn't get the funding it needs, and now they are pretty much out of the manned space flight business altogether, it is really rather appalling, I'm saddened by it all.

They're not out of manned space flight altogether forever, though. There are replacement designs for the aging shuttle program on the drawing board. It's just that years of sapped funding and gov't bureaucracy starting from the 70s prevented real progress on those plans when we still had the shuttle program.


In the meantime, I imagine that if we really do need to send people in space, the government will contract a private company to lend a hand, not unlike the Pentagon and the DoD.

Yes, and there's also the issue of fob watches, though the little girl was seen sporting this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BDX0BBADL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Worst fob watch ever.

Hey! Ponies are cool!

All Americans do not carry weapons. I'm tired of this stereotype.

Unfortunately, telling people to kill the Silence on sight depends on the stereotype. What are you going to do otherwise? Throw your pen at them?

But I'm thinking it was a kind of hypnotic suggestion too, like the psychologist following orders and Amy being commanded to sleep. If the Naked Gun has taught us anything, if you're hypnotized, you'll find a way to accomplish your goal!

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Upon rewatching Waters of Mars a couple weeks ago, I was surprised that I missed the throwaway line of one of the crew guessing a Filipino ship made it to Mars. As a Filipino-American, I had to smile.


Also, I believe the Fourth Doctor fought with the Filipino army in the future against Iceland. That's TWO!

As a Fil-Am too, I missed that!

 

[YellowSubmarine]

damnit!

BTW, since it was recorded, does that mean every time we rewatch the moon landing recording, we're seeing the Silence ordering us to kill them?

There's only one way to find out! (remember to press your Logan's Run hand button when you do, though).

I just watched the footage with a CD pen in hand. The result was rather unexpected.

 

[DAK]

I gave it a "kinda kewl".

I really like Matt Smith (couldn't stomach Tennant) and I like Amy, Rory, River, et al. But, it's off to a fairly slow start, IMO. I thought last season was so cool that I guess I have pretty high hopes. I'm nowhere near giving up though...I'm sure it'll pick up more.

Hey, look who's posting!

I think by the end of the season everything will come together and wow us. Stephen Moffat is a great story teller, and I know you (and I) love the long story arcs.

OK, so I probably should've read the whole thread but I'm just going to throw this out there and y'all can give me whatever education needs to be given...

So, is it possible that Amy is just like...a "carrier" or something? I mean, is that how Time Lords are reproduced? That it doesn't have to be anything sexual; it's just a matter of survival, etc.

I don't know a whole lot of history of the show. My first season watching was the one with Eccleston and I couldn't watch much of it with Tennant because I don't like him. But I watched all of last season (at DAK's urging ).

You're welcome!

That's kind of what I was wondering if we've ever been told how they reproduce. You're probably right but, ultimately, they aren't human so that doesn't have to be the way they reproduce, right?

There was an (IMO) dreadful episode during season 4 called "The Doctor's Daughter" where the bad guys forcibly took a piece of his DNA and "cloned" him, and out popped a fully grown daughter (that's the Jenny people are referring to). They left the ending wide open for her return, which I'm really really hoping doesn't happen.

 

[Count Zero]

If we take Ten's remarks at the beginning of The End of Time into consideration (about Queen Bessie nor being the Virgin Queen anymore) it seems pretty clear that Timelords have sex in pretty much the same way we do.
There are some books (well, at least one, Lungbarrow, I think) that make Timelord reproduction a rather complicated and asexual affair but nothing in the series suggests that, as far as I know. I think it's pretty safe to assume that it works pretty much the same way as with humans.

 

[Lonemagpie]

(that's the Jenny people are referring to). They left the ending wide open for her return, which I'm really really hoping doesn't happen.

Then again, they had her revive at Moffat's request, even though he wasn't involved with that story otherwise...

 

[davejames]

I've never had a problem with Moffat's previous time-twisting stories, but on this one I think (what with all flashbacks and the jumping in and out of the TARDIS) the story probably jumped around a little TOO much and was a little TOO complex for it's own good.

There were still tons of great moments and surprises, and I can't help but admire the inventiveness of it all... but in the end I'm not sure it really added up to a solid enough whole. There was no real flow to it, and all the unanswered questions left it feeling really incomplete somehow.

That said, it's still a solid "Cool" in my book.

 

[Shatnertage]

So here's a question for you:

Did the Silence come to Earth thousands of years ago wearing black suits and nudge humanity towards adopting business suits as professional dress (for men), or did they show up wearing loincloths and animal skins, then upgrade their costume as fashions changed?

2,000 years ago, were they wearing togas?

Would be funny to see a Scaroth/Brady Bunch type shot with them dressed up in all kinds of period fashion from different eras and cultures.

 

[Phily B]

I enjoyed it initially, but now that I've had time to think on it the story just doesn't seem to make sense in any way. The Doctor basically commiting genocide/starting a war, and he doesn't even know the silence and their intentions?

 

[theonering]

I'm going to give it a COOL!

I'll start out by saying i have no problem with arc driven story telling, as long as some kind of progress is being made regarding questions and plot points the pop up.
I checked out of Lost on its next to last season because I got tired of constant "what is going on here" feeling I got from it. It may have been critically acclaimed because it was cutting edge, but I felt like it dragged itself down over time.

That being said, let me move on to "The Day of the Moon".
My biggest criticism of the episode comes from the first act. at the end of episode one, they traveled from the oval office to florida in the TARDIS. After Amy shot the astronaut suit why exactly did they have to go on the run for three months? Why not just retreat to the TARDIS? and how the hell did the TARDIS end up inside the Doctors cell at area 51 anyway?
After all this I was pretty happy with the way the episode progressed... while I was hoping some clues would be given as to why the doctor died at the lake. The dissapointment was fairly minor since there was so much else going on. While I knew the doctors solution to dealing the silence occupation would be controversial with the fanbase due to the doctors pacifist attitude in the past, I have to say that the scene where he confronts the silence has to be one of the most badass moments in DW that I've seen, and was the best moment of the episode.

Finally I have to say kudos to Mr. Moffat. I'm a pretty even tempered guy, who doesn't really react too much emotionally to what I know is just meant for entertainment purposes, be it a tv show or a movie. But what happened in the final scene shocked and suprised me so much, I actually went WTF out loud. First time I can recall ever reacting like that to a tv show lol.

 

[Cyke101]

So here's a question for you:

Did the Silence come to Earth thousands of years ago wearing black suits and nudge humanity towards adopting business suits as professional dress (for men), or did they show up wearing loincloths and animal skins, then upgrade their costume as fashions changed?

2,000 years ago, were they wearing togas?

Would be funny to see a Scaroth/Brady Bunch type shot with them dressed up in all kinds of period fashion from different eras and cultures.

Ah, good questions indeed. For that matter, and I don't mean to get political or religious, but was anyone getting a Scientology vibe from the aliens?

 

[Shatnertage]

I enjoyed it initially, but now that I've had time to think on it the story just doesn't seem to make sense in any way. The Doctor basically commiting genocide/starting a war, and he doesn't even know the silence and their intentions?

That's exactly how I'm starting to feel. I absolutely loved it when I saw it--especially the little things like the swimming pool. But the more I think about it, the less I like it.

Did the Silence really do anything bad besides look creepy? They did kill that one woman in the bathroom, but besides that, what did they do wrong?

And philosophically the whole thing seems a step backward into Invasion of the Body Snatchers-type paranoia. I'm not sure I can really like a story where the Doctor empowers humanity to seek out and exterminate a minority group that's been living (apparently) peacefully among them for thousands of years.

Great horror movie, but it just seems to be coming from the wrong place.

And the Doctor seemed pretty glib about it, which the more I think about it the less I like it.

 

[Turbo]

The impression I got is that it's the Silence who somehow caused the TARDIS to explode in the averted timeline, and the Doctor is trying to prevent them from trying it again.

 

[Cyke101]

I enjoyed it initially, but now that I've had time to think on it the story just doesn't seem to make sense in any way. The Doctor basically commiting genocide/starting a war, and he doesn't even know the silence and their intentions?

That's exactly how I'm starting to feel. I absolutely loved it when I saw it--especially the little things like the swimming pool. But the more I think about it, the less I like it.

Did the Silence really do anything bad besides look creepy? They did kill that one woman in the bathroom, but besides that, what did they do wrong?

And philosophically the whole thing seems a step backward into Invasion of the Body Snatchers-type paranoia. I'm not sure I can really like a story where the Doctor empowers humanity to seek out and exterminate a minority group that's been living (apparently) peacefully among them for thousands of years.

Great horror movie, but it just seems to be coming from the wrong place.

And the Doctor seemed pretty glib about it, which the more I think about it the less I like it.

I'm getting the sense that these concerns will eventually get addressed. The difference between the "genocide" and other episodes with a somewhat uncharacteristic Doctor is that I believe River, someone who knows the Doctor better than most anyone, asks the Doctor what the hell he's doing in a shoot-out (something very un-Doctorish). I also want to say that other characters could have noticed something but my memory is a bit short.

For me it's one thing for the Doctor to be glib about himself, but that other characters notice something's off could be hinting that something is indeed wrong. It's by no means a surefire theory of course, and I'll be the first to point out that this very post is flimsy, but I'll wait and see.

 

[Count Zero]

As soon as you're starting to scratch the shiny surface of this two-parter, it starts to fall apart, really. I think this is mainly due to some pieces missing at the end of it. I expect we'll get them over the course of the season. Either that or they should have really made it a three-parter.

 

[Shatnertage]

I can almost see his "execution" (remember that?) as some sort of punishment for his hubris here.

I also think there's either a few seriously missing pieces, or I just didn't catch a lot of what went on. Did they ever establish what the connection was between the space suit and the Silence--like why exactly they needed it?

 

[Photoman15]

The Silence is not benign. They are what's there when you turn around when you hear a noise in your bedroom. But, you forget them when you turn away. But it leaves the fear of the dark with you. They're the "ghosts" in the corner of your eye, but, when you focus forward, you don't remember seeing them. They plant ideas in your head. They direct our evolution, for their own means. That's taking away free-will. And THAT cannot be tolerated.

 

[Photoman15]

Apparently, the Silence on not just on Earth. They forced the Fish/Vampires from their world. They are on many worlds and they must be able to travel some way. His TV broadcast was to make them leave for the most part.