Legalizing marijuana. I don't get it.

[Locutus of Bored]

You aren't really unfamiliar with how an analogy works, are you?

I'm simply curious at the specific analogy chosen. Why would someone chose an analogy that results in severe injury or death to use when talking about smoking pot? Especially when the person is pro legalization of pot.

Because the severity of the injury was incidental to the point he was making. At first I thought you were just being deliberately obtuse, but I guess you really didn't understand.

From my personal experience, I recall it was quite a while before the effects wore off. The only thing I distinctively remembered was that I had to keep reminding myself to breath because for whatever reason, I believed that my respiration was going to stop otherwise. The sensation lasted through the night.

Perhaps I smoked some strong stuff that's not meant for a first time user.

Do you think you should have been charged with a crime? Do you think you should have had financial aid denied to you in college? That's what you're arguing in favor of.

The potheads will argue about conspiracies and the benefits of hemp all day long, but what they really want is to smoke it. It is called hypocrisy. I never see any of them purchasing or making hemp clothing... or any of the other so-called beneficial uses of marijuana. However, they will TALK us to death for hours on end, then go smoke a joint, blunt, fattie or whatever the 'cool' term is today.

First off, not all or even most people in favor of legalizing marijuana are "potheads." I don't smoke marijuana but can think of no valid reason why it should be illegal and numerous reasons why it should not be.

Secondly, your logic for calling them hypocrites is bizarre. Using hemp for industrial purposes is illegal in most states, and even in the few states where it's been legalized they don't produce it in large quantities out of fear of the DEA cracking down on them. So, are people supposed to pay extra and seek out the few places that sell hemp clothing just to have an opinion on the legalization of marijuana? Are they supposed to finance and learn to grow cannabis sativa and manufacture hemp clothing on their own just to support legalization? That's crazy. Beyond that, one has nothing to do with the other. Just because you want legalization of marijuana doesn't mean you have to care about buying hemp products. There's nothing hypocritical about that at all.

One of my half-brothers was certified genius, but he blew it all for pot, including a Senatorial appointment to West Point, football scholarships, a good job (even after blowing the other opportunities). He will still rail and rant about government and corporate conspiracies, then go smoke his pot. If all that energy was put to good use, he could have contributed so much to the world.

Correlation does not equal causation. Marijuana is not heroin where you're so hooked that you're desperately selling off your property, selling yourself, or committing crimes to get money for your next fix. It sounds like your half-brother was having problems of his own; possibly being under a lot of pressure to achieve all of that. Isn't it possible that the marijuana use was a result of him feeling that pressure rather than the cause of his problems?

I wasn't there so I can't know for sure, but to me just saying "it was because of the pot" sounds like taking the easy way out and not dealing with the real problem.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Intoxication lets down your inhibitions

Sometimes it only largely does this; sometimes intoxication does other things altogether.

it doesn't put thoughts in your head that are not already yours.

True, sometimes it doesn't; but sometimes a psychotropic intoxicant alters thought processes, as by definition any psychotropic substance is capable of doing so.

So if a drunk person, or stoned person, says or does something then somewhere inside of them, possibly subconsciously, they have that thought.

Therefore, no, this is not necessarily so in the sense you evidently mean it.

Once a person is exposed to a psychotropic substance, it becomes one of the agents that potentially contributes to that person's thought processes.

Therefore, and in other words, we must accept that psychotropic intoxicants may alter thought processes. The only questions are to what degree, and whether the alterations are harmful, not whether they occur.

 

[scotpens]

well its known that drunken words are truthful words.

Known by who?

Pliny the Elder.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

well its known that drunken words are truthful words.

Known by who?

Well, there is the phrase In Vino Veritas. But I think it depends. Sometimes, they lose control and say what they're really thinking. Sometimes they lose control and say something completely out of character that they would never say.

ETA: Is "in vino veritas" Pliny? Good to know. His son was a pretty interesting dude too.

 

[Gaith]

One of my half-brothers was certified genius, but he blew it all for pot, including a Senatorial appointment to West Point, football scholarships, a good job (even after blowing the other opportunities). He will still rail and rant about government and corporate conspiracies, then go smoke his pot. If all that energy was put to good use, he could have contributed so much to the world.

Correlation does not equal causation. Marijuana is not heroin where you're so hooked that you're desperately selling off your property, selling yourself, or committing crimes to get money for your next fix. It sounds like your half-brother was having problems of his own; possibly being under a lot of pressure to achieve all of that. Isn't it possible that the marijuana use was a result of him feeling that pressure rather than the cause of his problems?

I wasn't there so I can't know for sure, but to me just saying "it was because of the pot" sounds like taking the easy way out and not dealing with the real problem.

Absolutely. I'd bet my life savings that there were far more serious factors than mere marijuana usage there.

 

[CorporalClegg]

125 posts and so far the only anti-legalization arguments are of the "I know someone who fails at life; he also smokes pot" variety.

Hmm...

 

[Gaith]

In that case, ladies and gentlemen, our task is clear: we must legalize marijuana, but criminalize failing at life. Swapping the mild drug enthusiasts for the unemployed may not reduce our prison population overmuch, but it will provide a powerful anti-slacker message we've lacked ever since the earthly departure of Principle Strickland.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I have tried pot before, but I wasn't overly impressed with its effects on me. So I don't really get why there is such a fervor to legalize it.

I raise this question because I've noticed several folks in here who are usually pretty vocal on this issue. Could you guys enlighten me on this issue?

Is it more for personal pleasure or is it more for the "hemp is a superior material for clothing and paper"?

I am in favor of legalizing it because it's effects are not any worse than the effects of alcohol (in fact, many would argue that it has fewer negative effects and several positive ones!) and the War On Drugs is extremely costly, and extremely ineffective.

Time to stop wasting our money on wars (of any kind) that don't matter or are unwinnable.

Oh. Wait. That would be ALL of them.

I understand its usage for medical purposes. Recreational, I don't see how it's beneficial.

'Beneficial' is not the issue, nor should it be the criteria for legalization.

There are PLENTY of things that are not 'beneficial' but are quite legal.

By your rationale, we should criminalize Big Macs.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

One of my half-brothers was certified genius, but he blew it all for pot, including a Senatorial appointment to West Point, football scholarships, a good job (even after blowing the other opportunities). He will still rail and rant about government and corporate conspiracies, then go smoke his pot. If all that energy was put to good use, he could have contributed so much to the world.

Correlation does not equal causation. Marijuana is not heroin where you're so hooked that you're desperately selling off your property, selling yourself, or committing crimes to get money for your next fix. It sounds like your half-brother was having problems of his own; possibly being under a lot of pressure to achieve all of that. Isn't it possible that the marijuana use was a result of him feeling that pressure rather than the cause of his problems?

I wasn't there so I can't know for sure, but to me just saying "it was because of the pot" sounds like taking the easy way out and not dealing with the real problem.

Absolutely. I'd bet my life savings that there were far more serious factors than mere marijuana usage there.

+1

Without a doubt. No one gives up a bunch of stuff they really, truly want in order to smoke weed. It is not like heroin, where the addiction is very much physical in nature, and they 'have to have it' or risk going into extremely painful withdrawals.

Much more likely this guy can't cope with the pressure of expectations (which may well include the expectation that he MUST want those things when he really doesn't..or that he MUST succeed at everything, when he doubts he can), and so hides in weed, because it's a substance that relaxes him in the face of all that incredible pressure. I'd bet good money that if you actually talked to this guy, you'd find a real conflict between what he wants (assuming he even KNOWS what he wants anymore - which I doubt - although he is probably quite clear on what everyone else wants), what he is doing, and what he thinks he 'should' be doing. High achievers who constantly live with the guilt of 'should' end up with all kinds of internal conflicts - take it from one who knows that story backwards and forwards.

But if this be the case, if weed were not available, he'd hide in something else - a bottle, maybe (which is more physically addictive, by the way)...or some other form of escape.

There is a lot more at work here than just the weed. Too bad everyone is taking the easy way out and blaming that, when it is much more likely a symptom than a cause.

 

[Davros]

I understand its usage for medical purposes. Recreational, I don't see how it's beneficial.

Entertainment isn't beneficial?

It will also increase abuse and the rate of addicts.

That's not what happened in Holland.

It would also be harder for those who medically need the drugs for their medical needs.

Since it would increase availability and lower the price, this is unlikely.

We have too many problems with drugs and abuse to go ahead and give everyone a free pass to get fucked up and hurt someone else.

The people who are going to get high are going to get high regardless. If not pot then booze or something else. Our resources would be better spent dealing with this as a health issue instead of a criminal one. So far the war on drugs has made more problems than the drugs have.

Yeah, harmless indeed. It makes you irresponsible. Sorry, I rather deal with alert people than someone snowed on marijuana.

The laws against it don't stop you from having to deal with those people.

Marijuana impairs you, regardless. A glass of wine doesn't.

Alcohol impairs people more than marijuana does. It also killed more people last weekend through alcohol poisoning, than marijuana has in 7000 plus years of use.

If you read my initial posts you'd get my stance on the issue. I am not a smoker, if it could be illegal it would be. I am not a drinker, if it could be illegal in my perfect little world it would be.

You know that when alcohol was illegal people still drank don't you? You know also that large crime empires were built on the profits of those illegal sales and law enforcement corruption became rampant as a result don't you? Just because you don't do what is illegal doesn't mean it won't effect you.

Marijuana wasn't put on the earth at all, and you have no more right to tell others what to do with it than anyone else.

Why not just mind your own business and let others mind theirs.

QFT

 

[Aldo]

I'd like to comment on the benefitial factors of Marijuana.

I have a friend (actually if you've read my thread about a certain friend of mine, it's the same person). This girl is under stress from all corners in her life. To the point where for a while she couldn't keep any food down...every time she would try to eat she would throw up the food. She went from a healthy looking beautiful young women to skin and bones, it was actually quite depressing to witness.

Anyways, smoking pot calmed her to the point where she was able to keep food down, it saved her life in that respect.

I also have a few comments to throw in the ring regarding recreational use.

Let's say you're hanging out with some buddies, you're all drinking heavily (for whatever reasons, maybe you're off work and trying to wind down). All it takes is one guy to get belligerent while he's drunk and start a fight. How is that a fun night? Or say one guy gets so drunk he starts puking up so you have to make sure he's not laying on his back and drowning in his own puke...hey if that's fun to you be my guest and drink yourself stupid, by all means.

Now say you have the same group of friends trying to unwind after a long day of work. You pull out some weed and load a pipe. After passing it around a bit you're all good and high. No one is going to get violent, no one is going to be puking so much that you have to babysit them. The worst that's going to happen is you're going to put on some music and just space out.

Yeah, I think I'd choose the weed.

 

[infinix]

Do you think you should have been charged with a crime? Do you think you should have had financial aid denied to you in college? That's what you're arguing in favor of.

Umm... no, I'm not in favor of keeping the status quo, nor am I completely legalizing pot. I'm trying to understand why it is illegal and why it should become legal.

 

[Kestra]

Now say you have the same group of friends trying to unwind after a long day of work. You pull out some weed and load a pipe. After passing it around a bit you're all good and high. No one is going to get violent, no one is going to be puking so much that you have to babysit them. The worst that's going to happen is you're going to put on some music and just space out.

Or that someone decides to drive while high and gets into an accident. Or that the smoke affects me.

Look, I'm not saying pot = bad, but to imply there are no possible negative effects is stupid.

 

[KJbushway]

You know that when alcohol was illegal people still drank don't you? You know also that large crime empires were built on the profits of those illegal sales and law enforcement corruption became rampant as a result don't you? Just because you don't do what is illegal doesn't mean it won't effect you.

^ hello future nascar.

 

[Davros]

I know back when I worked at 7-11 on the graveyard shift, I would much rather have stoners come in than drunks. Drunks pee on the floor and start fights, stoners make a mess pumping nacho cheese sauce into their bag of fritos.

Do you think you should have been charged with a crime? Do you think you should have had financial aid denied to you in college? That's what you're arguing in favor of.

Umm... no, I'm not in favor of keeping the status quo, nor am I completely legalizing pot. I'm trying to understand why it is illegal and why it should become legal.

This book might help
http://www.jackherer.com/thebook/

 

[KJbushway]

Now say you have the same group of friends trying to unwind after a long day of work. You pull out some weed and load a pipe. After passing it around a bit you're all good and high. No one is going to get violent, no one is going to be puking so much that you have to babysit them. The worst that's going to happen is you're going to put on some music and just space out.

Or that someone decides to drive while high and gets into an accident. Or that the smoke affects me.

Look, I'm not saying pot = bad, but to imply there are no possible negative effects is stupid.

Right.
There is negative affects. Just look at what the past surgoen generals have said.
But the main problem happens with non-smokers

 

[Aldo]

Now say you have the same group of friends trying to unwind after a long day of work. You pull out some weed and load a pipe. After passing it around a bit you're all good and high. No one is going to get violent, no one is going to be puking so much that you have to babysit them. The worst that's going to happen is you're going to put on some music and just space out.

Or that someone decides to drive while high and gets into an accident. Or that the smoke affects me.

Look, I'm not saying pot = bad, but to imply there are no possible negative effects is stupid.

I can't come up with a compelling argument about the driving factor. Only to say that driving stoned is not nearly as difficult as driving drunk, and if you have never been stoned you can't really comment on it one way or the other, because you don't know how it affects people.

I am curious about what you mean about the smoke affecting you? In my example I was saying that everyone who was hanging out was a smoker. If I ever smoked pot around a non-smoker I would make sure to do it outside, or in another room where the smoke would not affect said person.

 

[Pingfah]

Personally, with driving, I don't think the problem is that it makes you a dangerous driver, it is that it cuts down your reaction times if something happens that is out of your control like if someone runs out in front of you.

Statistically it's probably not a big widespread problem I agree, as those sorts of accidents are rarer than driver error crashes, but it is still definitely more dangerous than being sober.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Do you think you should have been charged with a crime? Do you think you should have had financial aid denied to you in college? That's what you're arguing in favor of.

Umm... no, I'm not in favor of keeping the status quo, nor am I completely legalizing pot. I'm trying to understand why it is illegal and why it should become legal.

Not legalizing/decriminalizing it is keeping the status quo.

 

[Aldo]

Alchohol does a lot more to impair your reaction time than weed does. With weed it's not so much that your reaction time is lowered, it's that you have trouble focusing on one thing long enough to be able to react to it.

In my experience (and don't take this to mean I always drive stoned, this was just a special case), as long as I used all my energy to focus on the road, I did just fine.