My God, I'm under attack!!!
Been there, done that.
Trust me, I have.
The only reassurance anyone has is that she's with Q.
And I have watched TWoK knowing that he comes back and I still cry when he dies. I have since I was four and didn't even understand what was going on, it was a beautiful scene.
Bringing her back wouldn't cheapen her death. It would actually sweeten it.
Just like Kirk, and Spock, and Trip's. I'd even say Data being resurrected in B4 as well.
Yes we should bring back Janeway exactly like Data should be brought back:
KJ has a sister who has severe learning difficulties and they discover it's possible for them to download KJs consciousness into her poor sister's body. It'll destroy the sister's consciousness, but who cares, we want KJ back.
Professor X, what are your thoughts?
^ Watch Star Trek 2 and think to yourself at the emotional climax "meh Spock's not really going to die" it cheapens the scene. You've read Full Circle, now read the characters' emotional journeys and think "Janeway's coming back" it cheapens it.
You know, I've heard other people state this, and it doesn't make sense to me. The other characters in the book believe that she is gone, so their grief is real. Whether I know she is coming back or not does't change that. And, believe me, when I watch Spock die, knowing he's going to be restored does nothing to lessen the emotional impact of that scene for me.
Nimoy has had a love/hate relationship with Spock from the beginning, so I'm not sure his attitude about Spock's death is relevant in this discussion. The titles of his two memoirs prove that: "I am Not Spock" in 1979 followed by "I Am Spock" in 1996.
His attitude about Spock is totally relevant, we're discussing the real world here as well as the Trek Verse and in the real world, that was the reason!
^ Watch Star Trek 2 and think to yourself at the emotional climax "meh Spock's not really going to die" it cheapens the scene.
So TWOK had been "cheapened" for the last 28 years for every viewer?
Arguably, yes. TSFS was a bit of a let down after TWOK.
And looks what happens when you get bored and decide to view past posts, and guess who started this thread:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=95373
JB2005 you are just very adamant on this subject aren't you
*cough* militant janeway fans *cough*
I'd forgotten about that thread. As I recall it was one of 3 that was going at the time, all which explored the issue from various angles. In that one I was interested in the idea of "Karmic Balances" in Trek, which is raised in TWOK/TSFS. IF Janeway comes back, who dies for her?
So TWOK had been "cheapened" for the last 28 years for every viewer?
Supposedly. And, btw, he does die. He just comes back thanks to the Genesis device.
And thank goodness he did because Spock is a FANTASTIC character.. that we even see him again at the (human age) of 80 in ST:XI makes me all the more grateful he returned.
It's not like you can replace him. And it's not like you can replace Janeway with a captain or admiral that serve a purpose for a couple books.
Of course you can replace spock. That's what Xon and Saavik were for!
I just want to make it clear, I like Janeway as a character! I was very mad when she was killed off, I thought it had been done badly and I was sure it would be undone with the next Voyager book. But when it wasn't I thought "bloody hell that was brave" and I read Full Circle and I realised something:
DS9 is an ensemble show. Always has been always will be. So the beauty of it was that when Sisko was removed, the show lost the "Captain" but it didn't lose the only main character. The other characters were fully rounded and capable of continuing the story.
Voyager is about Janeway and Seven and the Doctor and the interactions between the 3 with the rest of the cast supporting those interactions, occassionally allowing for some character growth, but generally in a way that relates back to the core trio (similar to the TOS formula).
Now, that means that when Janeway was removed, we lost our anchor as far as the premise of Voyager is concerned, and so the series becomes an ensemble piece. Seven and the Doctor can't be the main characters on their own, because they were dependent on Janeway to anchor them, so what do we see?
Chakotay becomes the show's captain, but he's damaged. Part of the problem with Chakotay is that he has 2 overarching character traits: 1) he is Janeway's first officer 2) he is a native american. And that's it. All of his character development over 7 years has pretty much come back to that. Which means in Spirit Walk, Golden was forced to rely on his one remaining character trait: ie he is a Native American. Beyer therefore has to show us what happens to Chakotay when he stops being Janeway's first officer: both figuritively and literally. What do I mean by that? Figuratively because even as Captain I personally don't think he ever saw himself as Captain, merely waiting for Janeway to resume command. So when Janeway dies, he suddenly loses that which he has clung to, and it breaks him and forces him to re-evaluate himself.
His leaving Starfleet in Full Circle and re-joining in Unworthy is significant. Chakotay had to leave because as long as his service was unbroken, he would forever be Janeway's first officer. By leaving and returning he is able to come back as "The Captain" and assume to role rightfully, rather than forever being in the shadow of Janeway.
Also by leaving Starfleet, he is able to assume the role of Seven's mentor from Janeway. He is the one who looks after her after the Caeliar incident, sacrificing his career to do so. In terms of the series, in Full Circle and Unworthy we see Chakotay's character finally emerge. He stops being just "The Native American" and "Janeway's First Officer" and becomes "The Captain". But this character development would never have come about if Janeway had lived.
Tuvok now on Titan, so seperated himself from Janeway by moving series.
Paris like Chakotay, prepared to leave Starfleet, only in his case for B'Elanna. Paris I will give credit to the VOY writers for. He did have something of a story arc. He started the series as a dishonourable rogue, moved up to honourable rogue, moved up to being honourable and finally accepted himself as a family man. Similarly he learns who he is through the death of Admiral Paris. He has always lived in the shadow of the greats, his father was always a yard stick he would be held up to, and as long as Chakotay was only filling the command chair for Janeway, Paris was only filling the first officer's chair for Chakotay. With the death of Janeway and Paris serving under Eden, then the "new" Chakotay, he becomes first officer in his own right, rather than merely inheriting the role by virtue of being third officer.
Kim was always living in Janeway's shadow. Right up to Endgame. With Janeway's death he (like Seven) loses his mentor, but we are able to see in him a maturity that he did not previously have, he's finally standing on his own and more importantly standing up to Tom, who he's always been somewhat secondary to up until now.
I'd imagine that if Voyager had been more ensemble, like DS9, then Janeway's death would have been far less controversial.
