TBBS and treatment of women

[Trekker4747]

What?!

Men are attracted to women and express that attraction with their desires?!! Un-HEARD OF!



There's a vast difference between saying things about celebrities or women not on the board and how women are treated here. If women here are being treated badly, sure, something needs to be said. But, gasp, people running a thread on rating the attractiveness of a celebrity?! Well, could it be, because that woman is part of the media and, thus, as part of her job is going to be judged on her attractiveness?

Female (and gay male) posters all most as frequently comment on the attractiveness of male celebrities it's less obvious and threads about it don't last long because there's fewer female posters here.

Start a thread about Ryan Reynolds, Orlando Bloom, Christian Bale or whatever and see what happens.

As for slurs against women (bitch, skank, etc.) again if it's being directed towards a poster here, and it's not TNZ, it's worth mentioning. But when it's being directed towards celebrities why is it a big deal? If people posting here are offended by that then it strikes me as their problem. Why should words in someone else's mouth not directed at you bother you?

Some of the comments against "Xina" the otherday, yeah, may have been strong but it's just words to describe their perception of her character. Maybe it's just the way our language is and most of the "slurs" used against women are just sharper but male celebrities can get called "dickhead", "asshole", "douchebag", "shithead" and plenty of others.

Granting that many "slurs" against women are of a sexual nature I'd argue that the words are not intended to imply promiscuity but they're just words in the same vein as the male slurs. "c-word", "tramp", "slut" aren't intended to harm the woman or suggest the woman's sexual promiscuity or anything like that but are just slurs against the woman. (And, again, I think the "sexual slurs" used against CA the last couple of days were a bit strong.)

TBBS' "treatment" of women is a side-effect of this place being mostly populated by men, if people are offended by that I don't see why they should be unless the posts are against them personally. The creepy factor in picture-threads is understandable. But if a male poster were to go into a female-dominated board I'm sure they'd find many threads dedicated to male celebrities in the same vein we see here.

This, to me, is a non issue on the front towards celebrities and others in the public spotlight. It's just a side-effect of this being a male-dominated board and just the way the world works. If a straight man is attracted to a female celebrity he doesn't have much to go on beyond her physical looks. He cannot say, "Well, I don't really know her so I can't say if she's hot or not. Thumbs down."

Against fellow posters? Sure, maybe it needs to be toned down.

But if a female poster is offended by the "Babe Threads" then she's got the choice to not go in there.

 

[Kestra]

I hope I did not contribute to that. I think that you, like most of the people here, are awesome.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to be all mopey to fish for compliments! I know I should be more specific in my complaints here and we've talked so much about PMing posters when we're upset and here I am not taking my own advice. But this isn't about someone being creepy. I feel like the general response to this is "shrug it off, toughen up, boys will be boys, women do the same so it's okay."

And the fact is that I am sensitive and maybe I'm just not well-suited to an environment where people need a tougher skin. I'm not saying that to be dramatic either, it's something I've actually been pondering for a while now. But I don't think that posting a picture should give people free reign to be inappropriate, and I don't think that terms like bitch, slut, tramp, dick, etc are really acceptable. I'm not speaking in terms of Official Forum Rules, but rather guidelines for interacting with people in general.

I'm not looking for rules to be changed or warnings to be handed out. I had just hoped that people would take a minute to reconsider some of the things they say. But it seems as though I'm in the minority in my feelings here and if that's the case, I suppose I just have to live with that.

 

[ThankQ]

I don't know, this whole thread has just made me upset and I'm disappointed in what I've been hearing from a few posters. But I guess I'm just a weak, oversensitive person who doesn't belong on the internet.

While I have found a few comments to be , I think Rob's post is vailid, but the deal is, I think this board is actually tamer than real life. The problem isn't how some men on this board view women, it's how some men view women, period.

 

[Kestra]

The problem isn't how some men on this board view women, it's how some men view women, period.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. And it's not just men, it's how women view each other, view men, etc. I still felt it deserved reflection and consideration.

And Trekker, the world would be a sad place if we only cared about ourselves and not about slurs towards others.

 

[Trekker4747]

Eh, on the celebrity front I guess what I see here is basically "thought policing." This is the internet so it's easier to express thought and feelings you cannot express in real life. Criticizing people for calling CA a "tramp" is trying to suppress their thoughys, IMHO.

If someone is offended by it then, well, they're offended. The rest of the world shouldn't have to "adapt" to prevent them from being offended. Yeah it's be great if everyone didn't act this way but it's partly human nature and isn't going to change soon and certainly not be changed by the rules on some message board on the internet.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

What?!

Men are attracted to women and express that attraction with their desires?!! Un-HEARD OF!

right back atcha, slick.

There's a vast difference between saying things about celebrities or women not on the board and how women are treated here. If women here are being treated badly, sure, something needs to be said. But, gasp, people running a thread on rating the attractiveness of a celebrity?! Well, could it be, because that woman is part of the media and, thus, as part of her job is going to be judged on her attractiveness?

You don't think it says anything when we have threads devoted specifically to whether or not some random celebrity is attractive? And not just, "Yeah, she's hot!" but "I'd hit that" and so forth.

Nobody's saying you aren't allowed to judge women on their appearance--we all do that. That doesn't mean you have to come out and be bleedingly obvious about it and base your judgment entirely on whether or not you'd fuck her.

It's not just judging her attractiveness, it's sizing her up like a piece of meat, criticizing all her various features--yeah, I've seen exactly that in the "babe" threads. It's sick and it would be nice if people kept such garbage to themselves. I don't think mods should issue infractions for it, I just wish people had some sense of decency and consideration.

Female (and gay male) posters all most as frequently comment on the attractiveness of male celebrities it's less obvious and threads about it don't last long because there's fewer female posters here.

Translation: this isn't really a problem. So why are you bringing it up? Oh, to deflect attention from your own behavior.

Start a thread about Ryan Reynolds, Orlando Bloom, Christian Bale or whatever and see what happens.

If those became a major issue I would complain about that, too. It cuts both ways. But the male treatment of women is the problem here, not the other way around.

As for slurs against women (bitch, skank, etc.) again if it's being directed towards a poster here, and it's not TNZ, it's worth mentioning. But when it's being directed towards celebrities why is it a big deal? If people posting here are offended by that then it strikes me as their problem. Why should words in someone else's mouth not directed at you bother you?

It's a big deal because other women are reading it and they can discern from your posts that you think gender is a suitable criterion for insult. You don't think that reflects on you at all? You don't think calling a woman--any woman--a bitch, skank, ho, cunt, slut, tramp, etc. tells anyone anything about who you are as a person, and as a man?

Some of the comments against "Xina" the otherday, yeah, may have been strong but it's just words to describe their perception of her character. Maybe it's just the way our language is and most of the "slurs" used against women are just sharper but male celebrities can get called "dickhead", "asshole", "douchebag", "shithead" and plenty of others.

No, they weren't describing her character, they were insulting her for being a woman. Big difference. Criticizing her performance is just fine and I think it deserves all the criticism you can heap on it. Going after her for having breasts and a vagina and being overtly sexual? Fuck that.

Granting that many "slurs" against women are of a sexual nature I'd argue that the words are not intended to imply promiscuity but they're just words in the same vein as the male slurs. "c-word", "tramp", "slut" aren't intended to harm the woman or suggest the woman's sexual promiscuity or anything like that but are just slurs against the woman. (And, again, I think the "sexual slurs" used against CA the last couple of days were a bit strong.)

It propagates stereotypes and outdated sexual norms. "Slut" is still an insult because there's still the unspoken assumption that a woman who likes sex is immoral and there's something "wrong" with her. Men who likes sex, well, that's just normal.

TBBS' "treatment" of women is a side-effect of this place being mostly populated by men, if people are offended by that I don't see why they should be unless the posts are against them personally. The creepy factor in picture-threads is understandable. But if a male poster were to go into a female-dominated board I'm sure they'd find many threads dedicated to male celebrities in the same vein we see here.

You know, you may be right. I've run quite a few boards over the years and due to various factors they tend to be populated 75%+ by women, and I almost never have these sorts of problems. The minority of guys can usually read the tone of the threads pretty well and know when a "you're hot!" comment is okay and when it's creepy. In fact, I've only had the "creepy poster" problem once, and that's recently. Maybe the guys here should step back and think about the fact that there are women here, even if there aren't as many and even if they don't post a lot. Maybe you don't care how they perceive you, but consider that if, as a group, the guys are acting in this way, it gives a very bad impression to the women.

I'm not saying guys shouldn't be themselves or that all sexual comments are totally off-base, just that people should think about what they say and how they say it. You know, re-read your post before you hit "submit" and ask yourself, "is this really what I meant to say, and what does it say about me?" It's not hard. A little introspection never hurt anybody.

This, to me, is a non issue on the front towards celebrities and others in the public spotlight. It's just a side-effect of this being a male-dominated board and just the way the world works. If a straight man is attracted to a female celebrity he doesn't have much to go on beyond her physical looks. He cannot say, "Well, I don't really know her so I can't say if she's hot or not. Thumbs down."

Talking about celebrities like they're pieces of meat reflects on your perception of women as a group. Whether you like it or not, it does.

Against fellow posters? Sure, maybe it needs to be toned down.

That's a lot more subtle, unfortunately, and much harder to stamp out.

But if a female poster is offended by the "Babe Threads" then she's got the choice to not go in there.

I don't think the threads should be forbidden, but people could think about the tone and content of what they say in such threads. Saying a woman is attractive is fine. But there's a line between a tasteful comment on a woman's attractiveness and just plain being disgusting. Where is it? I don't know, I'm sure it varies from person to person.

Once again, this is not about mods cracking down on anything. It's about being a little more thoughtful when choosing your words and considering the audience that might read them.

 

[Amaris]

I hope I did not contribute to that. I think that you, like most of the people here, are awesome.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to be all mopey to fish for compliments! I know I should be more specific in my complaints here and we've talked so much about PMing posters when we're upset and here I am not taking my own advice. But this isn't about someone being creepy. I feel like the general response to this is "shrug it off, toughen up, boys will be boys, women do the same so it's okay."

And the fact is that I am sensitive and maybe I'm just not well-suited to an environment where people need a tougher skin. I'm not saying that to be dramatic either, it's something I've actually been pondering for a while now. But I don't think that posting a picture should give people free reign to be inappropriate, and I don't think that terms like bitch, slut, tramp, dick, etc are really acceptable. I'm not speaking in terms of Official Forum Rules, but rather guidelines for interacting with people in general.

I'm not looking for rules to be changed or warnings to be handed out. I had just hoped that people would take a minute to reconsider some of the things they say. But it seems as though I'm in the minority in my feelings here and if that's the case, I suppose I just have to live with that.

I don't think the sticking point is sensitivity so much as it may be respect. I don't believe there is anything wrong at all with admiring the human body on a physical, emotional or visceral level. It's when that person becomes solely an object with no other redeeming features, which is then followed up by comments further taking away his or her humanity, comments that take away his or her innate equality.

 

[TheBrew]

I hope I did not contribute to that. I think that you, like most of the people here, are awesome.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to be all mopey to fish for compliments! I know I should be more specific in my complaints here and we've talked so much about PMing posters when we're upset and here I am not taking my own advice. But this isn't about someone being creepy. I feel like the general response to this is "shrug it off, toughen up, boys will be boys, women do the same so it's okay."

And the fact is that I am sensitive and maybe I'm just not well-suited to an environment where people need a tougher skin. I'm not saying that to be dramatic either, it's something I've actually been pondering for a while now. But I don't think that posting a picture should give people free reign to be inappropriate, and I don't think that terms like bitch, slut, tramp, dick, etc are really acceptable. I'm not speaking in terms of Official Forum Rules, but rather guidelines for interacting with people in general.

I'm not looking for rules to be changed or warnings to be handed out. I had just hoped that people would take a minute to reconsider some of the things they say. But it seems as though I'm in the minority in my feelings here and if that's the case, I suppose I just have to live with that.

In a way, I do agree with you. People should consider how their words affect other people. I try to be careful with my words out of respect for other people. I do that in real life, as well. Being aware of not only how you perceive your words, but how others perceive them is rare trait in my experience. I don't think that in general use that bitch, slut, dick etc. are acceptable to use. I will sometimes direct them towards people I know and am friends with as they will be able to discern my joking usage. However, they are words generally used as derogatory and in the same company as 'asshole', 'douchebag', etc.

If you feel strongly about this, then stand up for what you believe in!

 

[Mary Ann]

And the fact is that I am sensitive and maybe I'm just not well-suited to an environment where people need a tougher skin. I'm not saying that to be dramatic either, it's something I've actually been pondering for a while now. But I don't think that posting a picture should give people free reign to be inappropriate, and I don't think that terms like bitch, slut, tramp, dick, etc are really acceptable. I'm not speaking in terms of Official Forum Rules, but rather guidelines for interacting with people in general.

I'm not looking for rules to be changed or warnings to be handed out. I had just hoped that people would take a minute to reconsider some of the things they say. But it seems as though I'm in the minority in my feelings here and if that's the case, I suppose I just have to live with that.

I don't think you're in the minority. I may be tougher skinned (having a special needs child will do that; the thoughtless, rude, ignorant comments from the general public have to be heard to be believed), but I still believe, as you do, that not enough thought is given to a lot of comments. The anonymity of the internet seems to draw out another side of some people who would never dare attack other posters or be so blatantly sexist or otherwise rude in real life. I believe that the general rule of thumb should be that if you wouldn't say it to someone's face then you shouldn't say it on the 'net, either. Unfortunately the 'net on the whole doesn't work like that, but that doesn't mean that we should tolerate things which truly offend us. From what I understand, "if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" should only apply to TNZ on this board, and even there the Mods' tolerance only goes so far. As I said earlier, working with dysfunctional toddlers and dealing with adults as a Mod differed very slightly some days, which is a sad situation.

 

[ThankQ]

This, to me, is a non issue on the front towards celebrities and others in the public spotlight. It's just a side-effect of this being a male-dominated board and just the way the world works.

It's not that guys are attracted to hot women. That's perfectly fine. The problem--my take on it, anyway--is that so many guys see an attractive lady and they see sex before they see a person, if they ever see a person. The problem is Jenee's example. If a woman gets pissed or stands her ground, it's PMS. It's not because she's a person and has hot buttons and personal boundaries, no, it's just that time of the month.

Now, I do agree with those who think it is very well policed around here. I mean, just go read some YouTube comments. Every video that has a woman doing something had a couple guys who comment, "And you're not in the kitchen right now, because...?" or something like that. I watched the Obama/Bill'O interview on YouTube, and I saw slurs that I thought had fallen out of the language by now.

This place, by comparison, is practically an ACLU meet-n-greet. When I read Robert's OP, I read it as more of a general statement on the way things are, not just the way things are on this board. As you say, it's just the way the world works.

Sometimes the world works incorrectly, we have to fix it. It's one post in MISC going to fix the world? No. But it's a step. Maybe it gives one person cause to reflect on his or her own attitudes. My dad used to tell me "You can't change the world". Nope, sure can't. But I can do as much as I can with this little part of it over here. Maybe that helps.

 

[Jenee]

I wouldn't say women have to toughen up. I recognize that people are different - I wouldn't say I'm not sensitive. There have been remarks here and various other places on the net that I find a bit overboard.

And, I don't mean to imply that people should leave.

I am saying, it's not that difficult to scroll past a post I don't like. I can't monitor other people's behaviour - although, I'm sure some people think I try. The only choices for me, then is to either scroll past or leave the board.

I like it here and am not going to leave, so I just scroll past those posts I don't like.

 

[Jetfire]

I don't think the sticking point is sensitivity so much as it may be respect.

There is a lack of respect from people in general not just on the issues about female posters and mens attitude toward women. People in general are not respectful...if they disagree with another's opinion they are some how ridiculed and made to look like an idiot...instead of respectfully disagreeing.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I don't think the sticking point is sensitivity so much as it may be respect.

There is a lack of respect from people in general not just on the issues about female posters and mens attitude toward women. People in general are not respectful...if they disagree with another's opinion they are some how ridiculed and made to look like an idiot...instead of respectfully disagreeing.

Yeah, respect is a problem across the board, I'm just staking out this particular angle on it because it's so pervasive and I'm not sure a lot of the guys are even aware of how it looks. There's a difference between deliberately disrespectful and being disrespectful because you just don't know any better. The latter is more insidious and it's kind of what I was trying to draw attention to here.

 

[Amaris]

I don't think the sticking point is sensitivity so much as it may be respect.

There is a lack of respect from people in general not just on the issues about female posters and mens attitude toward women. People in general are not respectful...if they disagree with another's opinion they are some how ridiculed and made to look like an idiot...instead of respectfully disagreeing.

Yeah, respect is a problem across the board, I'm just staking out this particular angle on it because it's so pervasive and I'm not sure a lot of the guys are even aware of how it looks. There's a difference between deliberately disrespectful and being disrespectful because you just don't know any better. The latter is more insidious and it's kind of what I was trying to draw attention to here.

Or, to put it more bluntly, "not everyone wants you to offer them sex".

 

[EnsignAmy]

Wish I'd seen this last night. I'm not going to read through 5 pages of this stuff, so if I'm repeating something, please forgive me.

I suppose growing up with four brothers, then entering the military has numbed me to being offended by nonsense. ... well, that's not quite true. I remember being a teen and while a friend of mine and I were dressed for the beach and standing in the yard waiting for others to be ready, a car full of guys drove by and made some comments. I was flattered. My friend was not.

That's not to say I don't get offended. While in the military, I took issue with a guy making assumptions about who's driving - he thought he was because, naturally, he's the guy and the only reason I was there was because the XO told me to show up so I could drive. After a few words - that couldn't even remotely be called heated - the XO walked in and asked what was going on. and this guy replied "PMS". That offended me.

If women here get offended by comments made about their picture, there's a solution - don't post a picture.

If a guy makes a comment you don't like, scroll past it - Honestly, you don't have to read it. The message board police will not come and take you away.

Guys, if a girl shows no interest in chattering away with you like she does with other posters, that doesn't make her a bitch. It makes her human. Get over yourselves.

Maybe it's because I have older brothers as well, but I agree on pretty much every point Jennee makes here. I'm not easily offended by what guys say, and at the same time I expect guys not to be easily offended by me. For the most part it works out.

 

[Spot's Meow]

I hope I did not contribute to that. I think that you, like most of the people here, are awesome.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to be all mopey to fish for compliments! I know I should be more specific in my complaints here and we've talked so much about PMing posters when we're upset and here I am not taking my own advice. But this isn't about someone being creepy. I feel like the general response to this is "shrug it off, toughen up, boys will be boys, women do the same so it's okay."

And the fact is that I am sensitive and maybe I'm just not well-suited to an environment where people need a tougher skin. I'm not saying that to be dramatic either, it's something I've actually been pondering for a while now. But I don't think that posting a picture should give people free reign to be inappropriate, and I don't think that terms like bitch, slut, tramp, dick, etc are really acceptable. I'm not speaking in terms of Official Forum Rules, but rather guidelines for interacting with people in general.

I'm not looking for rules to be changed or warnings to be handed out. I had just hoped that people would take a minute to reconsider some of the things they say. But it seems as though I'm in the minority in my feelings here and if that's the case, I suppose I just have to live with that.

I understand how you feel and I feel that way as well. I don't think this is an issue that could be solved by the mods, because it is a general tone that evades any attempts at warnings. For example, something that annoys me every now and then is when a thread discussing a TV show or movie is started and people are discussing its merits when some guys inevitably come in and say something like, "well I think this is my new favorite show because the main character is so hot." (In cruder terms though). And it's not even really a joke, they actually mean it. It's sad to me, that they seemingly can't turn on a television or watch a movie without first judging the hotness of those on screen. Plot, narrative, setting, tone, it's apparently just a nice bonus if those are any good, what's really important is how attractive the actors are. And you can't police that sort of thing, you can't even really bring it to their attention because they won't "get it" and probably never will. So I try to just read on past those posts, but it can get very annoying when you see it many times. It's like, if you can't watch or see anything without thinking first about sex, why not just sit in front of a porno mag all day and get rid of your expensive TV and cable, since all you care about is seeing some hotties anyway. Some people seem to be oversexualized and I don't think that's going to change. It's just sad to me, I suppose.

 

[Nick086]

I don't think the sticking point is sensitivity so much as it may be respect.

There is a lack of respect from people in general not just on the issues about female posters and mens attitude toward women. People in general are not respectful...if they disagree with another's opinion they are some how ridiculed and made to look like an idiot...instead of respectfully disagreeing.

I agree there are some jerks on this board. If your not apart of the herd, your an outcast.

 

[Amaris]

I hope I did not contribute to that. I think that you, like most of the people here, are awesome.

Oh gosh, I didn't mean to be all mopey to fish for compliments! I know I should be more specific in my complaints here and we've talked so much about PMing posters when we're upset and here I am not taking my own advice. But this isn't about someone being creepy. I feel like the general response to this is "shrug it off, toughen up, boys will be boys, women do the same so it's okay."

And the fact is that I am sensitive and maybe I'm just not well-suited to an environment where people need a tougher skin. I'm not saying that to be dramatic either, it's something I've actually been pondering for a while now. But I don't think that posting a picture should give people free reign to be inappropriate, and I don't think that terms like bitch, slut, tramp, dick, etc are really acceptable. I'm not speaking in terms of Official Forum Rules, but rather guidelines for interacting with people in general.

I'm not looking for rules to be changed or warnings to be handed out. I had just hoped that people would take a minute to reconsider some of the things they say. But it seems as though I'm in the minority in my feelings here and if that's the case, I suppose I just have to live with that.

I understand how you feel and I feel that way as well. I don't think this is an issue that could be solved by the mods, because it is a general tone that evades any attempts at warnings. For example, something that annoys me every now and then is when a thread discussing a TV show or movie is started and people are discussing its merits when some guys inevitably come in and say something like, "well I think this is my new favorite show because the main character is so hot." (In cruder terms though). And it's not even really a joke, they actually mean it. It's sad to me, that they seemingly can't turn on a television or watch a movie without first judging the hotness of those on screen. Plot, narrative, setting, tone, it's apparently just a nice bonus if those are any good, what's really important is how attractive the actors are. And you can't police that sort of thing, you can't even really bring it to their attention because they won't "get it" and probably never will. So I try to just read on past those posts, but it can get very annoying when you see it many times. It's like, if you can't watch or see anything without thinking first about sex, why not just sit in front of a porno mag all day and get rid of your expensive TV and cable, since all you care about is seeing some hotties anyway. Some people seem to be oversexualized and I don't think that's going to change. It's just sad to me, I suppose.

Sex sells. The internet, television, print ads, magazines, sex sells in greater numbers. When you're selling a car, what's easier, to list the pros of purchasing said car, or to put a cute girl in a bikini / dashing bond type guy in a suit on the screen? People react more positively toward attractive people, and associate the product with sexuality and attractiveness. This spills over into nearly every other medium.

People are sexual creatures by nature, by design. We live in a society where it is simultaneously exploited by commercialism and finger wagged by politicians, so what we get is a bunch of mixed messages that merely confuse our sense of boundaries. Television shows, and sci-fi shows are particularly bad for this, like to sex up the cast to keep interest from waning. While it looks like men get the attention, women are worked upon more subtly, but just as much.

Again, this spills over into every day life. TV/Internet/Magazines make it acceptable to look at an image and say "she's hot/he's hot" because they want you, to be blunt, to want to have sex with that person, because you're more likely to be interested in what they do and say, and that means more revenues for the various agencies through which that person represents.

Some people treat posters here that same way. We're all simply men and women, but if you throw a picture of yourself into the forum, you become a part of the accepted treatment we give celebrities and interesting people. It's conditioned, for the most part, and it's becoming more and more the rule rather than the exception. That doesn't make it right, but it does indicate the direction things have been heading for a long time, now. This is nothing new. Sex has been a motivational seller since cavemen painted nude images on walls. It's only recently that the targeting has become so pointed and ubiquitous, and unless humanity becomes less interested in sex (unlikely), it will continue.

That said, it doesn't mean respect can't be given, and that's what people need to learn, is respect, and where that boundary lies when it comes to both the individual and the collective whole.

 

[An Officer]

I think it's most natural for existing moderators to expect new staff to fit in with the existing system and existing ways of running things. But one of the symptoms I feel is that new staff are encouraged (not directly) to interpret comments and situations in those same established ways, to maintain some consistency in how things are run.

Reviewing rules and making small changes of policy and procedure is all very well for a week or two, but things will always slip back to old ways, simply because that is the board's equilibrium.

When I was on the staff here, I mentioned one time that it would be good to have a female moderator in misc, and with the above two paragraphs in mind, I believe that person would need to be given some free reign, if the status quo is to be challenged and a new equilibrium become established.

Some may react by saying that's pushing things too far, or sewing the seeds of chaos and staff disagreements. But I think it would work. If it doesn't work, then we can try something else.

Don't underestimate the power of green. A moderator active in her own forum is a powerful symbol of leadership and boundary setting. If people know they are being watched and judged, they will think twice before they speak.

This is the best practical solution I've heard all thread.

The staff say we should notify if we have a problem, I agree that is a reasonable place to begin, except we tried that one out in 2009 and also way before that, it didn't work (not for long anyway).

Maybe it's time we tried a new tack.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I don't think the sticking point is sensitivity so much as it may be respect.

There is a lack of respect from people in general not just on the issues about female posters and mens attitude toward women. People in general are not respectful...if they disagree with another's opinion they are some how ridiculed and made to look like an idiot...instead of respectfully disagreeing.

This. I made a comment about this just a couple of days ago in some other thread. People ask for opinions and then if someone doesn't agree with the opinion the "offending" poster is ridiculed and ridden. I find it all very tiring.

I agree with Jenee, if you have a problem with the "hot babe" threads, don't go in there. What i cannot escape (and wish i could) are the avatars that are there, in your face, no matter what thread you are in, which feature women with large breasts that are barely covered. Nobody questions whether or not that is acceptable....

Robert, i do appreciate your bringing this topic up. I hope you know that i like and respect you very much outside of the BBS, but i have to admit, i am uncomfortable with your statement, "On the flip side of it, you get comments like "I'd hit it," avatars with bouncing tits, threads about whether or not a given female celebrity is hot."

By using the word "tits" the way you did...it just doesn't seem in keeping with what you are trying to say. Please don't be upset with me, i am not trying to 'call you out' on this. I'm just saying.