• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

What could a future earth space ship look like.

It's the logical conlusion to your argument :vulcan:

It is not.

No more than it is slavery being born into any other society.

I don't get your point - could you please elaborate how it is slavery being born into one society (in your opinion) and not into another!

And, again: it's a matter of size - Any multi-generation ship would need to hold so many people that they could easily have 'enclaves' of different political systems on board (not unlike countries on Earth), if you don't like one you are welcome to elect a different government or emigrate.
Thus the purpose of colonization is to support resource exploitation, and the purpose of resource exploitation is to support the human race. If you can accomplish that end goal without going into space, then nobody needs to go at all.

True, but one of the resources space has that the Earth doesn't, is habitation.
All eggs in one basket and all that: for long-term survival of the species we'll need more nests!
 
And this is assuming interstellar travel right from the Earth; colonizing the rest of the solar system is the logical first step before this, by which time the human population could easily swell to the tens of billions and the idea of spending your entire life in an artificial environment would already be familiar to most of us.

I don't think anyone would want to live in an artifical environment for their entire lives.
The most you can say is that very few people would. Again, just by law of averages, if you poll the entire human race you're always going to find a fairly large number of volunteers.

You still haven't answered the problem of the people who don't volunteer, namely the progeny.
What about them? They've never been to Earth, they've lived their whole lives on the generation ship, they grow up learning that this is a normal way of life and can't imagine any other.

What possible incentive do they have not to turn around and go home?
What possible reason do they have to WANT to? To take the trouble and difficulty to head back to a world they've never seen and have only a vague biological connection too? Try asking yourself why black people in America aren't emigrating en masse to Africa.

The human population is unlikely to thrive on any other planet because of the gravity problem, aside from Venus, and there you have a whole new set of problems.

Actually they can thrive just fine on ANY planet in the solar system. The thing is, once they're there, they can never return to Earth: they're acclimated to the gravity field they're on and will survive just fine as long as they stay there.
 
True, but one of the resources space has that the Earth doesn't, is habitation.
All eggs in one basket and all that: for long-term survival of the species we'll need more nests!

Habitation is a necessity, not a resource. Humans don't move to a new area just to be moving somewhere, they do it because they hope to find something in that place that can meet their goals. This is as true for local considerations as it is for exploration: people move to a neighborhood looking for better schools, lower rent or a low crime rate, they move to a new country looking for work or for ideological solidarity. People will move into space for all kinds of reasons but "long term survival of the species" won't be one of them. The first pioneers in space will (and in fact, ARE) driven mainly by profit motive.
 
Habitation is a necessity, not a resource. Humans don't move to a new area just to be moving somewhere, they do it because they hope to find something in that place that can meet their goals.

Goals such as land that isn't occupied by other people!

People move away from 'home' in order to find space that doesn't belong to anyone else, the firstborn son inherits the farm and the rest of 'em will have to either go live somewhere else or be slaves to those that own the land where they were born.
 
What possible incentive do they have not to turn around and go home?
What possible reason do they have to WANT to? To take the trouble and difficulty to head back to a world they've never seen and have only a vague biological connection too?

You realise you're living on a ship in a void that's heading somewhere but not in your lifetime and you have a chance to go back to paradise where you evolved? They would turn around in a heartbeat.
 
Habitation is a necessity, not a resource. Humans don't move to a new area just to be moving somewhere, they do it because they hope to find something in that place that can meet their goals.

Goals such as land that isn't occupied by other people!
That can always be obtained on Earth by buying it from someone else, which is always cheaper than discovering new land on a distant planet. Thus "land" won't be a viable goal in itself, unless you start getting into something specific that land has by way of resources that can make owning it worthwhile. Privacy alone isn't all that expensive even on Earth.
 
What possible incentive do they have not to turn around and go home?
What possible reason do they have to WANT to? To take the trouble and difficulty to head back to a world they've never seen and have only a vague biological connection too?

You realise you're living on a ship in a void that's heading somewhere but not in your lifetime and you have a chance to go back to paradise where you evolved? They would turn around in a heartbeat.
LOL @ "paradise."

And what in the world would give them THAT impression? Again, they know next to nothing about Earth, they've never even SEEN it, and what they would have available by way of movies, books and TV shows would paint a picture of something very much unlike paradise. Besides, as a matter of human history, it is always preferable to allow things to remain as they are than to attempt to change them; for this reason, conditions on the SHIP would have to deteriorate to a level well below what they would consider tolerable (the ship gets hit by a meteor or is struck by some kind of internal civil war or something like that) before returning to Earth even BEGINS to look like a viable option.

Also, it's funny how you avoided my other question though: why do black people in America harbor no desire to emigrate to Africa? You're claiming there's an inherent drive for humans to move back to the land of their ancestors instead of simply stay in the place they have spent their entire lives calling "home," so if that's the case, why aren't we seeing it here?
 
Because the Earth is our natural habitat. Simple.

Strictly speaking, AFRICA is our natural habitat. That's where our ancestors evolved, where the first humans were adapted to live.

And you are still neatly avoiding the question: if humans possess this inclination to return to their point of distant origin, why aren't black people migrating en masse to Africa?
 
Whomever is to be born on a generation ship has the same say that anyone else has ever had about the situation they're born into: none.

I seriously believe it would be a greater problem to choose who is not to go on such a trip from the hundreds of thousands who would actually prefer going to staying here! As a matter of fact, I think you could begin selling tickets now.

And I think you're living in a romantic dream world. (We have a say in our country and how it is run. That's why we don't torture or kill prisoners, or why every child is educated, or why the internet exists.) (How many people do you know who have the identical goals in life as their grandparents?)


Well one we have killed prisoners, we basically invented water boarding. Not every child is educated, 60% drop-out with no resistance in the school i just graduated from and its a rich school. The internet wasn't originally invented for us of civilians, it was going to be just strictly for military use. That why it has to be a futurisitic ship. Since in the future there could be moon bases(artifical enviroment) which citizens will live. So I can definitely see people in a generational ship.

My family is an example of a family that has done the same kind of profession(except for my dad) for 4 generations. So yes, you see that in family owned buisnesses, you see that with parents who make their kids do what they do, who says that wouldn't happen then if it happens now.
 
Last edited:
Because the Earth is our natural habitat. Simple.

Strictly speaking, AFRICA is our natural habitat. That's where our ancestors evolved, where the first humans were adapted to live.

And you are still neatly avoiding the question: if humans possess this inclination to return to their point of distant origin, why aren't black people migrating en masse to Africa?

Because Earth is our natural habitat. Simple.
 
I think that rather than mucking about with human bodies, they'll send robots to likely looking planets. Transmitting the research would take an awful lot less time than sending some poor sods to somewhere unlivable.
 
Well, that maybe true, but then again it isn't. If a robot that has a specific job breaks down with no-one to take its task or fix it, that mission just kinda failed right then. However, if a human breaks down or dies, a generational ship would have someone to take that place. Now is it likely to have both on a ship, yes.
 
Because the Earth is our natural habitat. Simple.

Strictly speaking, AFRICA is our natural habitat. That's where our ancestors evolved, where the first humans were adapted to live.

And you are still neatly avoiding the question: if humans possess this inclination to return to their point of distant origin, why aren't black people migrating en masse to Africa?

Because Earth is our natural habitat. Simple.

Still dodging the question... and it is now clear you have no real answer.:vulcan:
 
The point of Space exploration, is to experiense it first hand. To be there.
I believe you are confusing "exploration" with "tourism." Or hiking, depending on where you're going.

Comparing tourism and hiking with exploration? really?
Only insofar as tourism and hiking are NOT exploration, as the latter involves going to a particular place looking for something useful and the former does not.

Thus space EXPLORATION is traveling to a new location for a specific, pre-determined purpose. Space TOURISM is traveling just to be traveling.

If you not going to read the my post, then dont quote it. Because the answear to that question was already there.
As was mine: exploration is the search for resources and information, as opposed to TOURISM, which is what "to experience it first hand, to be there" describes.

I read your post just fine. It's just that "to be there" is not a motivating drive for exploration.

Ever considered Colonization as a foundation for Space Exploration?
Occasionally, but not plausibly. The entire history of colonization has ALWAYS been driven by a search for natural resources; even the search for land has been less about the need to establish habitation than the need to expand cultivation of staple crops or obtain a resource (sometimes, the land itself) that can be sold for profit.

Is there valuable realestate on the moon or the Near Earth Asteroids? I'll bet there is. The question is, valuable FOR WHAT?

Well the purposes and uses of a fully or partial functional brain transplants will be up to the users really. But the technologie will be here way befor we start buidling space ships like in star trek or babylon 5.
True as that is, THAT tech level would be more than redundant for the simple task of colonizing the solar system; we could do that with the technology we have RIGHT NOW, and thirty years of advances would only make that process cheaper and easier.

The only reason we haven't done it yet is because we don't have a compelling reason to do so. All romanticism aside "Look at me, I'm in space!" just isn't valuable enough to society to spend billions of dollars on space flight infrastructure and habitation. On the other hand, "Look at me, I just found fifty tons of platinum ore in this crater over here!" very well might be, especially if you're able to mine enough ore to pay for the mission itself, and MOST especially if you manage to turn a profit. When that happens, space becomes a growth industry like any other, and the motivation exists to make transportation cheaper in order to maximize profit as much as possible. From that follows infrastructure; industry grows around infrastructure, communities grow around industries, and those communities become colonies.

Sooner or later, colonies become countries, countries become races, and races become species. By the time humans start developing prosthetic bodies, there will probably already be a few subclasses of humans spread throughout the solar system already, and cybernetic humans will just be one more contender in an evolutionary drag race.

fully or partial brain transplants technologie have more use to us then building space ships.

Which is why that technology will never be useful for space exploration.
 
What could a future earth space ship look like?

2wqa8le.jpg

or similar.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top