TOS original or Remastered, which is canon?

[Ronald Held]

I will try again.
Starting with the originally filmed TOS, if the CBS F/X team had more money and time, how would it have affected the remastering work that we have seen?

 

[Warped9]

I will try again.
Starting with the originally filmed TOS, if the CBS F/X team had more money and time, how would it have affected the remastering work that we have seen?

This question all comes done to vision. And that vision would vary from individual to individual.

There are no doubt some who would have preferred to go whole hog with new f/x and change as much as they could get away with. And then there are those who would have been much more conservative, essentially cleaning up the f/x (reshooting them really) so that TOS still looked original and authentic yet without the blemishes of limited time and resource imposed on the show when it was made.

TOS-R as is was done more by committee I think where it came down to a push-and-pull between minimal change and maximum change.

 

[Chrisisall]

TOS-R as is was done more by committee I think where it came down to a push-and-pull between minimal change and maximum change.

I feel that you're wrong here; "committee" denotes voting, and I see TOS-Rw/NFX as having been done by a friendly cooperative of superfan/professional artists that simply agreed on stuff.
I may be wrong, but the FX evidence at hand suggests peeps just doing what they loved to do, with the only limitation being pure respect for the source.

I conjure more money or time might have resulted in more highly detailed peripheral shots, but not too much more.

 

[Christopher]

I don't see how "done by a committee" can be said with a straight face as a criticism of a television production, since all television or film production is a collaborative exercise. The original TOS was the work of a much larger "committee" of creators than TOS-R was, so if the claim is that a committee is a bad thing, the consequence of that claim would have to be that TOS was worse than TOS-R, wouldn't it?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Ah jeez, this topic is as thin as my hair. I'd just ignore it, but the usual suspects are here and I hate missing a party with people I'm familiar with.

What does it matter if some dude form Paramount says which version is official? He'd only reply "the JJ Abrams version." The only thing that matters is what version to you enjoy most: the original or the enhanced? For me, that depends on the episode. I'll probably never watch the original version of Tomorrow is Yesterday again, but I prefer the original cut of Where No Man Has Gone Before.

The only thing I really can't seem to enjoy is the new sound mix. I always prefer the original mono (which ain't so original), and don't like the rerecorded main themes in the slightest. Thankfully, the audio options are as easy to choose as the video. The original theme against the new graphics, BTW, works incredibly well. AND you can hear Shatner's narration...

The reason why the enhanced effects turned out as well as they did is due in no small part to guys like Mike Okuda being huge fans. I'd rather have him and the rest work on them rather than have the series farmed out to some random FX house looking at the gig as something to showcase their talents. I have some niggles and nit picks, but by and large, I enjoy the effort. But when I feel nostalgic, I'll either watch the original FX or the laserdisc prints.

Glad to have them choices.

 

[Chrisisall]

Ah jeez, this topic is as thin as my hair.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
I mean to say that was funny- no dis here.

Glad to have them choices.

Me too.

 

[Chrisisall]

if the claim is that a committee is a bad thing, the consequence of that claim would have to be that TOS was worse than TOS-R, wouldn't it?

Your logic seems reasonable; are you Vulcanian?

 

[RandyS]

Canon is not relevant to this subject. They're just special effects after all. Both versions are equally valid. But the originals are preferred.

 

[Warped9]

TOS-R as is was done more by committee I think where it came down to a push-and-pull between minimal change and maximum change.

I feel that you're wrong here; "committee" denotes voting, and I see TOS-Rw/NFX as having been done by a friendly cooperative of superfan/professional artists that simply agreed on stuff.
I may be wrong, but the FX evidence at hand suggests peeps just doing what they loved to do, with the only limitation being pure respect for the source.

Let's just say I have a good reason to believe my assertion without revealing my source. And because of that I suspect more drastic changes could have been made then already were.

And I suspect few on the team really respected the source materiel.

 

[Sector 7]

Would using TOS-RFX make more sense?

I prefer TOS-WTFITBDOTNFX (TOS-WTF Is The Big Deal Over The New Effects?).
Nah, they all have waaaayyyy too many letters to remember. I'll stick with TOS-R.

Canon is not relevant to this subject. They're just special effects after all. Both versions are equally valid. But the originals are preferred.

FTW!!!

Thanks, Mike Okuda and team for the revamped special effects.

 

[blssdwlf]

I recently watched, "The Ultimate Computer" and "Elaan of Troyius" and I thought for the space battles the new FX team ignored the dialogue. They brought the ships way closer or in aspects than they were indicated. It was like they tried to put TNG-sensibilities into the TOS work. (Note, TOS FX had its own problems, but this new FX didn't really fix anything and just created its own different set of problems.)

Specifically, "Elaan of Troyius" there was a scene where the Klingon battlecruiser just moved into sensor range and was pacing the Enterprise. In the original FX, we see the Enterprise go by, then camera cut, then the Klingon goes by giving room for them to be far apart. The remastered FX we see the Enterprise go by and the camera pans to the left a little and in the same continuous shot the Klingon ship goes by suggesting that they were only a few ship-lengths away from each other. The battle scene was also wonky too. With them being soo close in the new FX, it gave no room for the initial Warp 6 run at the Enterprise.

And in "The Ultimate Computer", in the first wargame Chekov calls out that the enemy vessel is closing on them and the new FX shows instead the Enterprise turning almost into the rear of the other ship. Again the new FX director continues the very close range battle where two ships are in the same camera shot. The initial attack on Lexington, "closing on Enterprise" yet the new FX shot shows the Enterprise behind and point-blank to Lexington.

I thought the new space battle FX were okay, but I do wish they kept to the dialogue more. Even if CBS had a bigger budget, it would just mean a higher poly Enterprise and such, but I think with the same crew (ex-TNG) the decisions would still be the same.

As far as "canon" goes, they're now both "canon", IMHO. One just happens to be from the TOS-continuity and the other the TNG-continuity

 

[Chrisisall]

Let's just say I have a good reason to believe my assertion without revealing my source.

A "higher" source?
We're not gonna get religious here, are we?

 

[number6]

He's got nothing. The FX team were under the direction of Dave Rossi and the Okudas, both of whom are huge fans. The FX were done under their direction.

 

[Hober Mallow]

He's got nothing. The FX team were under the direction of Dave Rossi and the Okudas, both of whom are huge fans. The FX were done under their direction.

You're forgetting the team that was in charge of that team: Satan, Kahless, Hitler, and Dick Cheney.

 

[number6]

And Osama Bin Braga.

 

[Christopher]

He's got nothing. The FX team were under the direction of Dave Rossi and the Okudas, both of whom are huge fans.

So "both" means three people nowadays?

 

[Warped9]

Let's just say I have a good reason to believe my assertion without revealing my source.

A "higher" source?
We're not gonna get religious here, are we?

Think what you want. I know what I know. And it ain't got nothin' to do with religion.

It was like they tried to put TNG-sensibilities into the TOS work.

This is what I've felt also all along.

 

[number6]

He's got nothing. The FX team were under the direction of Dave Rossi and the Okudas, both of whom are huge fans.

So "both" means three people nowadays?

Rossi as one person and Okudas as one group. Both.

Are we quibbling about this? Really??

 

[Chrisisall]

I know what I know.

No. Not what I know.
You know?

 

[Noname Given]

And I suspect few on the team really respected the source materiel.

Yes, I recall what you defined as 'respect' in this case, back when the discussion about the new visual effects started (ie they should have just used CGI to make cleaner versions of the EXACT same shots, with all the original inconsistencies (from the use of multiple pieces of stok footage from the original pilot interchanably with new shots, etc.)

Considering a member who did a lot of the original effects stated he liked it, and felt this is what the show would have looked like, had that level of effects technology been availble within their budget, I'd say they respected the original shots pretty well.

And again, the original shots are on the Blu-Ray editions (something those doing the new effects asked for); so again, I don't get where the basis of your claim originates. If these flks DIDN'T respect theoriginal work, why would they request it be included as a viewing option?