The skydve over vulcan

[G2309]

This is my favourite part of the film as it hadn't been done in Trek before and was a lot more exciting thanusing the transporter.
For those who loved it or hated it for thinking it was unrealistic check the last minute of this video

http://www.snowfix.tv/extra/crazy-fools/


The whole video has great jumps in it but the last minute or so is whats relevant to this discussion. What do others think of it.

 

[T'Girl]

I have so got to do that!!!!!!!

 

[mariajl]

I totally love that scene. I think it really gets adrenaline pumpin.

 

[Timo]

One wonders about the mechanics of it, though. Supposedly, Pike didn't exactly stop the shuttle to hover over the location, so our heroes would follow a certain ballistic trajectory at least until they hit the denser parts of the atmosphere. And supposedly, even a drop from a dead stop would have our heroes falling along a path curved by Coriolis forces.

Now, supposedly Pike's maneuvering compensated for Coriolis. But our heroes stay pretty close to the drill shaft all the way down. Is that realistic from the mechanical point of view? Does the drill shaft perhaps follow the same curving path as that of a freefall object? I'd think not, at least not naturally. But Nero might have forced the drill to bend that way so that when he launched the red matter probe, it could nicely fly down along the drill shaft and perhaps somehow be protected by it.

Really, one would think the shaft would have some sort of protection in place, perhaps a tubular forcefield at some convenient distance. This would also help explain why the defenders of Vulcan didn't do any defending... If our heroes managed to dive into this tube from the top and stayed inside it during their ride down, they would be in an unique position to do damage to the drill, thus making the Vulcans look a bit less like limp-handed idiots...

Of course, an outside attack does easily destroy the drill over Earth. But we may argue it's because Spock uses the powerful 24th century weapons on the jellyfish ship, whereas Starfleet and Vulcan only had pitiful 23rd century tech available.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[mariajl]

Ok... um... my brain just exploded trying to read that. I think I officially phased out at "... a path curved by Coriolis forces."

In short, however, my official response is:
"Shhhhh... just enjoy... it's coooool."

One wonders about the mechanics of it, though. Supposedly, Pike didn't exactly stop the shuttle to hover over the location, so our heroes would follow a certain ballistic trajectory at least until they hit the denser parts of the atmosphere. And supposedly, even a drop from a dead stop would have our heroes falling along a path curved by Coriolis forces.

Now, supposedly Pike's maneuvering compensated for Coriolis. But our heroes stay pretty close to the drill shaft all the way down. Is that realistic from the mechanical point of view? Does the drill shaft perhaps follow the same curving path as that of a freefall object? I'd think not, at least not naturally. But Nero might have forced the drill to bend that way so that when he launched the red matter probe, it could nicely fly down along the drill shaft and perhaps somehow be protected by it.

Really, one would think the shaft would have some sort of protection in place, perhaps a tubular forcefield at some convenient distance. This would also help explain why the defenders of Vulcan didn't do any defending... If our heroes managed to dive into this tube from the top and stayed inside it during their ride down, they would be in an unique position to do damage to the drill, thus making the Vulcans look a bit less like limp-handed idiots...

Of course, an outside attack does easily destroy the drill over Earth. But we may argue it's because Spock uses the powerful 24th century weapons on the jellyfish ship, whereas Starfleet and Vulcan only had pitiful 23rd century tech available.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[G2309]

Really, one would think the shaft would have some sort of protection in place, perhaps a tubular forcefield at some convenient distance. This would also help explain why the defenders of Vulcan didn't do any defending... If our heroes managed to dive into this tube from the top and stayed inside it during their ride down, they would be in an unique position to do damage to the drill, thus making the Vulcans look a bit less like limp-handed idiots...

yeah i assumed the drill had something like that.

 

[Sector 7]

For those of us who have parachuted, free-falling is a feeling we never forget. I enjoyed that video greatly, as I also enjoyed that portion of ST09. Although my health prevents me from doing it again, it is a feeling for which I shall always yearn.

 

[Jeyl]

I don't know. The skydive sequence for me was underwhelming.

If the mission was to destroy the drill, than shoot the dang drill! If you're worried that the Narada will destroy you, than what the heck is going to stop them from doing that anyways when they find out their drill has been sabotaged?

And what did the whole sequence even accomplish? They didn't stop the drill in time to prevent Vulcan's destruction and they didn't lose anyone who was important. The Enterprise didn't need Olsen to get out of Vulcan's orbit or pursue Nero, and Kirk and Sulu didn't take anything from it.

And what about those Romulans coming out of the drill itself? I saw that platform from every angle. There's no way anyone could fit in there, let alone work. Maybe they crawled the entire time. . . Please tell me they didn't crawl in there the entire time. That's just silly.

And the worst part about the whole sequence is that no one ever delves on the fact that they failed to save Vulcan. They put Kirk in a no-win scenario and he couldn't do anything about it. Talk about a missed opportunity to develop that story point.

A sequence that does nothing for the film does nothing for me. It's an action piece that's fun to watch to say the least, but it doesn't do anything.

 

[Timo]

Please tell me they didn't crawl in there the entire time. That's just silly.

Well, the two obvious Star Trek alternatives to that would be these:

1) Gravity within the installation was perpendicular to what one'd expect - the drill probably wasn't designed for operations within a gravity field anyway. So any internal maintenance corridors would be like the Discovery carousel reversed, with the floor towards the middle.

2) There were no people inside the drill. Why would there be people inside the drill? Rather, troops were beamed down to confront our heroes, using hardwired transporters because no other sort would work while the drill was active. And the platforms for those transporters were under protective hatches.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[G2309]

And what did the whole sequence even accomplish? They didn't stop the drill in time to prevent Vulcan's destruction and they didn't lose anyone who was important. The Enterprise didn't need Olsen to get out of Vulcan's orbit or pursue Nero, and Kirk and Sulu didn't take anything from it.

I don't mind that they did't accomplish anything. I expect people in movies fail occasionally rather than succeed in everything they try to do.

Also although it wasn't stated I always assumed Olsen was the chief engineer. Which is why Scotty got the job when he came aboard.

 

[Timo]

Indeed. When our heroes first board the starship, I vaguely remember somebody (Pike? Spock?) giving orders regarding Olsen and Engineering, suggesting that Olsen was the man to call in getting the ship moving. Anybody remember more clearly?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sarita]

It would have been more practical to have jet or rocket packs as part of the skydiving kit.

 

[Jeyl]

Indeed. When our heroes first board the starship, I vaguely remember somebody (Pike? Spock?) giving orders regarding Olsen and Engineering, suggesting that Olsen was the man to call in getting the ship moving. Anybody remember more clearly?

There is a ton of ADR cover ups in Trek09, far more than I'm comfortable with.
- The opening shot is simply voice overs informing the audience to what's happening.
- We don't even get to know Robau's name except for when it's heard over the intercom.
- Someone makes a reference to klingons over the intercom and someone else saying they're pretty close to klingon... something.

And a lot of the ADR lines sound disjointed.
- A crewmember says "You should see this. It looks like a lightning storm!" while in the very next scene we hear "Still out of visual range."
- The Enterprise is being bombarded by debris and you hear a crew member yelling "Shields are holding." than Pike calls for Engineer Olsen asking for a report. Would have been nice if those lines were reversed.

 

[Dukhat]

Indeed. When our heroes first board the starship, I vaguely remember somebody (Pike? Spock?) giving orders regarding Olsen and Engineering, suggesting that Olsen was the man to call in getting the ship moving. Anybody remember more clearly?

There is a ton of ADR cover ups in Trek09, far more than I'm comfortable with.
- The opening shot is simply voice overs informing the audience to what's happening.
- We don't even get to know Robau's name except for when it's heard over the intercom.
- Someone makes a reference to klingons over the intercom and someone else saying they're pretty close to klingon... something.

And a lot of the ADR lines sound disjointed.
- A crewmember says "You should see this. It looks like a lightning storm!" while in the very next scene we hear "Still out of visual range."
- The Enterprise is being bombarded by debris and you hear a crew member yelling "Shields are holding." than Pike calls for Engineer Olsen asking for a report. Would have been nice if those lines were reversed.

And my response to that is that one can nitpick the same amount of shit from STII, or any other Trek film for that matter.

 

[M'Sharak]

Are they even really nitpicks, though?

There is a ton of ADR cover ups in Trek09, far more than I'm comfortable with.
- The opening shot is simply voice overs informing the audience to what's happening.
- We don't even get to know Robau's name except for when it's heard over the intercom.
- Someone makes a reference to klingons over the intercom and someone else saying they're pretty close to klingon... something.

It's exactly the sort of comm traffic you'd expect to hear on a starship with a situation developing. You also heard it in TOS, during the first season at least. What reason you could possibly have to be uncomfortable with it escapes me.

And a lot of the ADR lines sound disjointed.
- A crewmember says "You should see this. It looks like a lightning storm!" while in the very next scene we hear "Still out of visual range."

Placed in context, rather than cherry-picked to play up a manufactured contrast with a line from a subsequent scene, the dialogue goes thus (more conversational than disjointed):

KELVIN: Starfleet base, we sent you a transmission. Did you receive?
STARFLEET: Kelvin, have you double-checked those readings?
KELVIN: Our gravitational sensors are going crazy here. You should see this - it looks like a lightning storm.
STARFLEET: What you sent us doesn't seem possible.
KELVIN: Yes, ma'am, I understand. That's why we sent it.

Readings. Sensors. [W]e sent you.../[w]hat you sent us... Starships are equipped with instrumentation which allows the crew to "see" that which is not yet within visual range, even if the readings obtained do not match known phenomena, and those readings are communicated to others. Just as it was in TOS.

 

[Timo]

On the same vein, though, there's some walla (or near-walla) that's really edited in the wrong slot. During the initial attack, the weapons of the Kelvin are silenced by the bombardment - or so the engineer guy claims, when shouting into the intercom. Yet the very next exterior VFX view shows the ship still fighting back with her red death rays...

Also, "weapons offline" is a calamity that warrants a red warning message on the viewscreen in the second attack, yet no such warning is visible during or after the first attack yet. But that could be due to the viewing mode selected or whatever.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

I like to think "weapons offline" reffered to the pop-up pulse cannon things instead of the main phasers. They weren't used until later in the battle, a good few minutes for the engineer to get them up and running.

That's my feeble excuse, and I'm sticking to it!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

And what did the whole sequence even accomplish? They didn't stop the drill in time to prevent Vulcan's destruction and they didn't lose anyone who was important. The Enterprise didn't need Olsen to get out of Vulcan's orbit or pursue Nero, and Kirk and Sulu didn't take anything from it.

I don't mind that they did't accomplish anything. I expect people in movies fail occasionally rather than succeed in everything they try to do.

Also although it wasn't stated I always assumed Olsen was the chief engineer. Which is why Scotty got the job when he came aboard.

Pike calls him "Chief Engineer Olsen" a couple of times, first on the comm when they're flying through the debris field and again when the away team is being briefed on the way to the hangar deck. Even before I saw his red space suit, I was thinking "You're gonna die and Scotty will take your place, dead man."

 

[Jeyl]

Placed in context, rather than cherry-picked to play up a manufactured contrast

Cherry picked to play a manufactured contrast? During the time the dialogue was spoken, the Kelvin is literally in spitting distance of the anomaly as evidenced that it's faint lightning storm effects are being reflected off the Kelvin's hull. So when you put that into perspective along with the lines "You should see this! It looks like a lightning storm!", I think it's pretty obvious that they can see the darn thing.

 

[Deckerd]

How come they didn't burn up when they entered the Vulcan atmosphere?