SG-U – Incursion Part1 (1x19) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[Star Wolf]

Two Colonels is easy. Anyone have a count how many Captains are on aircraft carriers now? There seem to be too many LA for a full scale extermination of them which leaves the Voyager as it should have been option. No this is a SGC ship statement and a year later you don't even notice the different rank insignia. But thruth be told I think Colonel Telford goes out as a Medal of Honor winner or as a Patton after the fight is over

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'll say one thing for this episode: it moved fast. i don't know anything about how derivative it is since I didn't watch Atlantis.

Quite a bit of stupidity on display from Young, though. There was absolutely no reason not to vent the gate room entirely. Disconnect the stones to be sure you've got Rush back, vent the room, problem solved--and at the cost of only one "good guy." That's definitely an acceptable loss, compared to risking everyone else on the ship like an idiot.

The SG-1 cameos didn't do much for me, honestly. They were just too short to leave an impact, unlike last week where Jackson and O'Neill got fairly extensive screen time.

I'll reserve judgment on grading this until at least next week. It was okay, but not as good as last week.

 

[Brent]

Ok, sorry, I haven't read the thread yet

1.) Remind me again, why is the Lucian Alliance using projectile weapons? Why not Zats or some other form of energy weapon taken over from the goa'uld ?

2.) I bet Elliot and Chloe will find something in the part of the ship they are in that will help them retake the ship.. there is something on that side of the ship just waiting for them to find it i bet...

3.) I get the vibe that the scientist who died in the chair is the one that is helping them, taking over the ships controls, vaporizing that dude, I bet he is part of the ship now or something

4.) Why is the LA even interested in Destiny, wouldn't Atlantis be a more technologically advanced target? I don't get why they are so hell bent on getting to Destiny.

5.) Carters cameo was pointless, all she did was fly a ship to a planet, and left when it blew up, and lost 2 pilots in the process. I wanted to see her fighting goau'ld motherships or something, which you'd think the LA would have had in orbit of the planet to protect to the pyramid on the surface, I mean, you'd think they would have had teh planet protected, but no, they leave it wide open, hard to believe.

 

[bullethead]

Ok, sorry, I haven't read the thread yet

1.) Remind me again, why is the Lucian Alliance using projectile weapons? Why not Zats or some other form of energy weapon taken over from the goa'uld ?

The Alliance likely saw how effective projectile weapons were after the Tau'ri kicked the Goa'uld's asses with them, they are in some ways easier to maintain because you don't need access to naquadah or other rare materials to fix/rearm them, and they're a lot easier to conceal than Zats. Of course, they could have used Intar rounds with them, but I doubt the Alliance wanted to capture anyone.

2.) I bet Elliot and Chloe will find something in the part of the ship they are in that will help them retake the ship.. there is something on that side of the ship just waiting for them to find it i bet...

Considering the writing on this show, that's entirely possible.

3.) I get the vibe that the scientist who died in the chair is the one that is helping them, taking over the ships controls, vaporizing that dude, I bet he is part of the ship now or something

Yeah, that makes more sense than cosmic rays triggering the defenses like someone suggested a while back.

4.) Why is the LA even interested in Destiny, wouldn't Atlantis be a more technologically advanced target? I don't get why they are so hell bent on getting to Destiny.

Atlantis is probably too well fortified for the Alliance to take, not to mention the fact that they haven't established where it is. It's entirely possible that the events of Atlantis's finale are going to be subject to a retcon sooner or later.

5.) Carters cameo was pointless, all she did was fly a ship to a planet, and left when it blew up, and lost 2 pilots in the process. I wanted to see her fighting goau'ld motherships or something, which you'd think the LA would have had in orbit of the planet to protect to the pyramid on the surface, I mean, you'd think they would have had teh planet protected, but no, they leave it wide open, hard to believe.

They didn't expect the SGC to learn about it, but I agree, the Alliance should've had more assets on hand. Also, the whole thing about the 302 pilots could've been avoided had they beamed them out, but I think the writers are trying to retcon a lot of stuff from SG-1 and Atlantis or simply decided to ignore the fact that they beamed up a building, like where they had the Daedalus lower the shields to beam in the Atlantis 5th season premiere, despite having beamed through shields tons of times before.

 

[Brent]

The Alliance likely saw how effective projectile weapons were after the Tau'ri kicked the Goa'uld's asses with them, they are in some ways easier to maintain because you don't need access to naquadah or other rare materials to fix/rearm them, and they're a lot easier to conceal than Zats. Of course, they could have used Intar rounds with them, but I doubt the Alliance wanted to capture anyone.

I don't buy it, they aren't worring about concealing them, zats are compact anyway and fold up, can be hidden quite well, don't require naquadah to operate, and don't run out of energy or projectiles.

Since the LA took over goa'uld technology and stuff, you'd think they would have been armed with goa'uld weapons.

The reason why I think they made the LA use projectile weapons is so that there wouldn't be any energy weapons being brought on board destiny, the writers/producers want to keep the ship on the edge of not having enough materials, running out of bullets, and not have an easy way to replenish or have endless firepower like goa'uld weapons would allow. While I understand that, it still doesn't make sense that the LA would be using projectile weapons.

 

[EyalM]

3.) I get the vibe that the scientist who died in the chair is the one that is helping them, taking over the ships controls, vaporizing that dude, I bet he is part of the ship now or something.

While possible, it would be a terrible move by the writers. It would mean that after every episode the fans will whine "why didn't Franklin help them reverse the polarity" and so on.

I'm guessing that there is something wrong with the ship and that both team will need to team up to fix it before they all die.

 

[bullethead]

The Alliance likely saw how effective projectile weapons were after the Tau'ri kicked the Goa'uld's asses with them, they are in some ways easier to maintain because you don't need access to naquadah or other rare materials to fix/rearm them, and they're a lot easier to conceal than Zats. Of course, they could have used Intar rounds with them, but I doubt the Alliance wanted to capture anyone.

I don't buy it, they aren't worring about concealing them, zats are compact anyway and fold up, can be hidden quite well, don't require naquadah to operate, and don't run out of energy or projectiles.

Since the LA took over goa'uld technology and stuff, you'd think they would have been armed with goa'uld weapons.

Even when compacted, zats look quite a bit bulkier than a normal handgun, require a special holster, and are an ergonomic pain in the ass. Also, the things probably run off of a naquadah power cell, since the staff weapons have them and we have no reason to assume that the Goa'uld had some other power source for their weapons.

As for the Alliance using Goa'uld weapons, most of them suck. The only good ones are the Zats, Intars, TERs, and the Kull Warrior wrist guns. Two of them are overly specialized (Intars being stun only, TERs work only on invisible stuff), one can probably be only used by Goa'uld hosts (the Kull Warrior gun), and the I've already covered the zat guns problems.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

3.) I get the vibe that the scientist who died in the chair is the one that is helping them, taking over the ships controls, vaporizing that dude, I bet he is part of the ship now or something.

While possible, it would be a terrible move by the writers. It would mean that after every episode the fans will whine "why didn't Franklin help them reverse the polarity" and so on.

I'm guessing that there is something wrong with the ship and that both team will need to team up to fix it before they all die.

All the fighting on the ship activated an automated Intruder Neutralization program?

 

[Brent]

The Alliance likely saw how effective projectile weapons were after the Tau'ri kicked the Goa'uld's asses with them, they are in some ways easier to maintain because you don't need access to naquadah or other rare materials to fix/rearm them, and they're a lot easier to conceal than Zats. Of course, they could have used Intar rounds with them, but I doubt the Alliance wanted to capture anyone.

I don't buy it, they aren't worring about concealing them, zats are compact anyway and fold up, can be hidden quite well, don't require naquadah to operate, and don't run out of energy or projectiles.

Since the LA took over goa'uld technology and stuff, you'd think they would have been armed with goa'uld weapons.

Even when compacted, zats look quite a bit bulkier than a normal handgun, require a special holster, and are an ergonomic pain in the ****. Also, the things probably run off of a naquadah power cell, since the staff weapons have them and we have no reason to assume that the Goa'uld had some other power source for their weapons.

As for the Alliance using Goa'uld weapons, most of them suck. The only good ones are the Zats, Intars, TERs, and the Kull Warrior wrist guns. Two of them are overly specialized (Intars being stun only, TERs work only on invisible stuff), one can probably be only used by Goa'uld hosts (the Kull Warrior gun), and the I've already covered the zat guns problems.

They had no need to conceal their weapons when coming on board destiny.

Zats obviously last longer than projectile weapons, yes, eventually they'll run out probably, but so far in the entire run of every series, none have ever gone dead, they are quite reliable and kill quite easily. When gating to a place like Destiny, where you can run out of bullets, it makes sense to bring some energy weapons along.

 

[gturner]

3.) I get the vibe that the scientist who died in the chair is the one that is helping them, taking over the ships controls, vaporizing that dude, I bet he is part of the ship now or something

Yeah, that makes more sense than cosmic rays triggering the defenses like someone suggested a while back.

I'm betting that the Lucian Alliance did something to void the ship's warranty - like the use of off-brand Chinese-made doorknobs from Walmart.

These last two episodes could've explored some different aspects of the Alliance and what it must be like for a person who suffered under Go'uld oppression to visit Earth, but the show didn't go there.

For the sake of completeness, here are some ideas.

Rush: (after being forced to eat slop while trying to make the Alliance's gate work) "So you had a stealthed Alkesh outside of Washington and you never once thought to pack it with cheeseburgers?"

Kiva: I had more important things to do.

Rush: What, shopping at Victoria's Secret?

Alliance Lieutenant #1: (aside) I had a bacon cheeseburger at Bennigan's.

Alliance toadie #1: (loudly) Yeah. Why didn't we pack the Alkesh with cheeseburgers?

Alliance toadie #2: And beer!

Alliance toadie #3: And sirloin steaks! What's the point of topplin' the Go'uld if you don't get nothin' out of it when it's sitting right there on the menu?

Alliance Lieutenant #2: I tell you, we ain't gonna get half as much outta goin' to this Ancient ship than we would franchisin' them Earth restaurants all across the galaxy.

Kiva: I will shoot the first man who says a word about my cooking.

etc.

But the writers didn't go there.

 

[bullethead]

I don't buy it, they aren't worring about concealing them, zats are compact anyway and fold up, can be hidden quite well, don't require naquadah to operate, and don't run out of energy or projectiles.

Since the LA took over goa'uld technology and stuff, you'd think they would have been armed with goa'uld weapons.

Even when compacted, zats look quite a bit bulkier than a normal handgun, require a special holster, and are an ergonomic pain in the ****. Also, the things probably run off of a naquadah power cell, since the staff weapons have them and we have no reason to assume that the Goa'uld had some other power source for their weapons.

As for the Alliance using Goa'uld weapons, most of them suck. The only good ones are the Zats, Intars, TERs, and the Kull Warrior wrist guns. Two of them are overly specialized (Intars being stun only, TERs work only on invisible stuff), one can probably be only used by Goa'uld hosts (the Kull Warrior gun), and the I've already covered the zat guns problems.

They had no need to conceal their weapons when coming on board destiny.

Zats obviously last longer than projectile weapons, yes, eventually they'll run out probably, but so far in the entire run of every series, none have ever gone dead, they are quite reliable and kill quite easily. When gating to a place like Destiny, where you can run out of bullets, it makes sense to bring some energy weapons along.

True, but as a whole, the Alliance doesn't use the things for some reason, so there has to be a reason. It's possible the Free Jaffa managed to monopolize the supplies of zats and let anyone take staffs, since they suck, so the Alliance might have a limited amount of zats that they keep for certain occasions, and Kiva's dad didn't think that using up his supply of zats on a potential suicide mission was a good reason to give them to Kiva.

 

[broberfett]

Gould staff weapons are still good, despite what they said in the 5th season episode "The Warrior." The problem with the staff weapon is that it is plot powered kinda like Warp drive. The staff weapon was great in "Children of the Gods." It blasted through a 3 ft stone wall with a couple shots. The weapon is then reduced to giving a very minor sunburn in later episodes. Aiming is an issue, but we've seen them remove the lower half of the weapon in the episode with the invisible Jaffa clan. You slap a stock and a sight on that sucker and then you have a powerful weapon with a hell of a range that can shoot for hundreds of years.

Ammo should be an issue with the crew in Stargate Universe. An energy weapon would be a great asset. Zats are good for stunning or even a wraith stunner could have been brought along. Gould shock grenades are great too.

 

[The Wormhole]

One of SGU's better episodes, but that's not really saying much. As it turns out Telford was brainwashed. Some disappointment there as they are basically just taking the easy way out. Also, he's not exactly being subtle around Kiva that he's against her now. And how was Rush revived? Did he just awaken after Telford was revived, or do the Lucian Alliance have medics of their own? If they do, what happened to them that they need TJ to look after their wounded?

I've got to say, I don't get the Stargate franchise's constantly changing opinion on acceptable deaths. In this episode Young is chewed out for not killing the Lucian Alliance when they boarded Destiny because he didn't want to kill Rush or Telford. Also, Carter is recognized for making the right choice when she left the two 302s behind. However, previously the heroes have been prasied for avoiding the deaths of good guys, even when it gave the bad guys the upper hand. Case in point, Carter halped Ba'al to info from the SGC's database after he threatened to kill his hostages, and that was considered the right choice.

And further more, you would think it would be possible for the Hammond to beam the pilots of the 302s out, though I concede that the planet blowing up might have caused interferance.

Also, O'Neill threatens to put someone else in command of Destiny. How would this work? Unless he was going to turn command over to Wray, there is nothing that can be done. The only other option is to have another officer use the stones and swap with Young. But that's not really fair to the others, is it? Young was incompetant, so now he gets to go back to Earth but the rest of you are still stuck out here and can only visit Earth.

And why was the Hammond, which was in Earth orbit sent to deal with the Lucian Alliance? Wouldn't it have made more sense to send another ship, one that was out in deep space and was probably closer? Oh I don't know, how about ZPM-enahnced Odyssey to make sure the Lucian Alliance don't mess with them?

I see the Hammond's bridge crew has changed somehat. In the pilot, the speaking bridge officer was Major Marks, who served on practically every other Earth ship. The Prometheus, Odyssey, Apollo, and Daedalus. This time they had someone else, who I think also served on the Daedalus. No, this has no relevance whatsoever, just something I felt like pointing out.

I was thinking at first that Eli and Chloe were going to eventually find Destiny's actual bridge and from there they'd find some contrived deus ex machina to save the day. Though I guess that'll actually be whatever vaporized that guy.

And what is with the Pentagon's lax security? In Subversion, when Young arrived and said he wanted to sepak with O'Neill, the guard asked who he was, and he identified himself and gave his authentification code. Here, Young just says he wants to speak to O'Neill and that's that. Yes, it was urgent for Young to speak with O'Neill, but for all the guard knew, this was someone from the Lucian Alliance using the stones, now plotting to kill O'Neill. Authentification should have been asked.

EDIT TO ADD: I did think it was a nice touch, having the Lucian Alliance guy standing next to the gate on Destiny when it deactivated get the steam shooting into his face. That was cool.

 

[bullethead]

One of SGU's better episodes, but that's not really saying much. As it turns out Telford was brainwashed. Some disappointment there as they are basically just taking the easy way out. Also, he's not exactly being subtle around Kiva that he's against her now. And how was Rush revived? Did he just awaken after Telford was revived, or do the Lucian Alliance have medics of their own? If they do, what happened to them that they need TJ to look after their wounded?

It's possible that the Alliance medics were busy with other wounded members, got wounded during the fighting (especially since all the Alliance people are apparently combat ready personnel), the Alliance's medics got vaporized along with the planet or Kiva was just seeing whether keeping the pregnant woman around was worth it.

And why was the Hammond, which was in Earth orbit sent to deal with the Lucian Alliance? Wouldn't it have made more sense to send another ship, one that was out in deep space and was probably closer? Oh I don't know, how about ZPM-enahnced Odyssey to make sure the Lucian Alliance don't mess with them?

The last thing we heard about the Odyssey was that it was on a secret mission in the Atlantis finale. Considering that the writers haven't said jack about anything not related to the Destiny crew, it's entirely possible that the SGC is waging a war against the Alliance or something.

And what is with the Pentagon's lax security? In Subversion, when Young arrived and said he wanted to sepak with O'Neill, the guard asked who he was, and he identified himself and gave his authentification code. Here, Young just says he wants to speak to O'Neill and that's that. Yes, it was urgent for Young to speak with O'Neill, but for all the guard knew, this was someone from the Lucian Alliance using the stones, now plotting to kill O'Neill. Authentification should have been asked.

I think they decided not to show all that because they assumed the viewers would be smart enough to fill in the blanks, like with the ending to Time.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Also, O'Neill threatens to put someone else in command of Destiny. How would this work? Unless he was going to turn command over to Wray, there is nothing that can be done. The only other option is to have another officer use the stones and swap with Young. But that's not really fair to the others, is it? Young was incompetant, so now he gets to go back to Earth but the rest of you are still stuck out here and can only visit Earth.

Telford's on the ship now, in his own body and recently deprogrammed. Of course, at this particular moment he was occupied playing double-agent and couldn't relieve Young.

I guess it would have been an option to let Cameron Mitchell (for example) swap bodies with Young and take control of the situation on Destiny until the immediate crisis is resolved. After this is achieved, Mitchell would return to his own body on Earth and Col. Telford could assume command on Destiny. With Young as his second-in-command or something.

 

[The Wormhole]

The last thing we heard about the Odyssey was that it was on a secret mission in the Atlantis finale. Considering that the writers haven't said jack about anything not related to the Destiny crew, it's entirely possible that the SGC is waging a war against the Alliance or something.

That's something else that's been bothering me. SGU has implied that Earth has been in active conflict with the Lucian Alliance for the past few years now. In Air when Icarus is attacked, Young simply assumes that's who is attacking before knowing the facts. And in Subversion we learn Telford was spying on the Alliance and that the Alliance attacked (and possibly destroyed) another Earth base at some point. This however directly contradicts Atlantis which made it very clear that nothing of consequence had been going on in the Milky Way since the Ori were defeated. In the episode Whispers, one of them on the female SG team says she requested a transfer to the Pegasus galaxy for some excitement, saying there wasn't any excitement in the Milky Way since the Ori left. Is this indication nothing has been happening, or did this officer simply think fighting space vampires was more exciting than fighting space mercenaries?

 

[gturner]

^ Just note it as a distinction between fighting the Go'uld or Ori, who were actively engaged in constant and extensive military operations against us, versus infrequent encounters with pirates. Since we don't occupy an expansive empire, we aren't in very many places the Lucian Alliance wants to go. I'd also note that we don't generally possess off-world things the Lucian Alliance would want to take, exploit, or tax, given the inevitable combat and costs required, similar to the reasons why a mafia and a military rarely find themselves in direct confrontations.

So unless a person is posted in one of the few places that see occassional Lucian raids or incursions, the Milky Way would seem pretty boring.

 

[Checkmate]

Episode 1x17 (Pain) involved the Destiny moving into a star system, so they are not still between galaxies.

No, that episode dealt with ticks they picked up while on some planet previously, not one that they picked on up on a planet that episode.

 

[Yoda]

I'll take any excuse to keep Rhona Mitra around a while longer.

I don't know... I guess she's kind of hot in that "if I let her take a strap-on to me that doesn't mean I'm gay, does it?" kind of way...

Really? That's the first place your mind went?

Yeah yeah... why... what context do you find her hot?

 

[bullethead]

Episode 1x17 (Pain) involved the Destiny moving into a star system, so they are not still between galaxies.

No, that episode dealt with ticks they picked up while on some planet previously, not one that they picked on up on a planet that episode.

They gated to a planet at the end of the episode. Nothing came out of this of course, naturally, because it happened in the last five minutes.