SG-U – Incursion Part1 (1x19) - (Discuss – Grade | SPOILERS)

[JarodRussell]

Then killing bad guys is wrong? It's war. In a war people get killed. Their first priority was to save the ship and crew, and that's effectively done by killing the attacking enemy. Simple as that. Now don't say you hate every movie in which bad guys are killed.

The moment they arrived through the gate they were clearly not POWs.

"Killing" Telford was the only method to undo the brainwashing. It was not torture. It's the same principle how they managed to reverse Teal'c brainwash. He had to have a slow death experience to realize who he is and what's right and wrong. They helped him. By no definition is that torture. That's the only fictional way to reverse the fictional type of brainwash. Live with it.

Would you say letting drug addicts suffer through painful and ugly withdrawal syndrome is torture as well? Well you're wrong if you do.

 

[Star Wolf]

Then killing bad guys is wrong? It's war. In a war people get killed. Their first priority was to save the ship and crew, and that's effectively done by killing the attacking enemy. Simple as that. Now don't say you hate every movie in which bad guys are killed.

The moment they arrived through the gate they were clearly not POWs.

"Killing" Telford was the only method to undo the brainwashing. It was not torture. It's the same principle how they managed to reverse Teal'c brainwash. He had to have a slow death experience to realize who he is and what's right and wrong. They helped him. By no definition is that torture. That's the only fictional way to reverse the fictional type of brainwash. Live with it.

Would you say letting drug addicts suffer through painful and ugly withdrawal syndrome is torture as well? Well you're wrong if you do.

You emphasized with bold reviving Rush only. The Tau'ri have rules of war

 

[bullethead]

Then killing bad guys is wrong? It's war. In a war people get killed. Their first priority was to save the ship and crew, and that's effectively done by killing the attacking enemy. Simple as that. Now don't say you hate every movie in which bad guys are killed.

The moment they arrived through the gate they were clearly not POWs.

"Killing" Telford was the only method to undo the brainwashing. It was not torture. It's the same principle how they managed to reverse Teal'c brainwash. He had to have a slow death experience to realize who he is and what's right and wrong. They helped him. By no definition is that torture. That's the only fictional way to reverse the fictional type of brainwash. Live with it.

Would you say letting drug addicts suffer through painful and ugly withdrawal syndrome is torture as well? Well you're wrong if you do.

You emphasized with bold reviving Rush only. The Tau'ri have rules of war

Practical considerations trump those in these circumstances. They have no place to put several dozen hostile individuals who will attempt to escape at the first opportunity, they don't have the resources to keep useless people alive, and I seriously doubt General O'Neill would've given a damn as long as Young kept the SGC personnel alive.

 

[David cgc]

Why didn't Young vent the gate room's atmosphere, waited until everyone of the L.A. including Rush/Telford was unconscious, then pumped the atmosphere back and revived Rush only.

Problem solved. It would have been the same thing he did to Telford right at the beginning of the episode. Cut off the air, let everyone die, revive Rush.

L.A. could have still busted this plan by opening the doors.

Well, if you're going to acknowledge that, you have to concede Young didn't do anything wrong. If the LA didn't have the door openers, he could've left them locked in there, breathing, indefinitely, with no consequences.

They could've forced the door even if the air was being pumped out, so Young's action had made no difference, so what's the use of criticizing it? Based on the information at hand, there was nothing to keep him from just letting them live for a few minutes. Hell, if he wanted to, the Stargate and Embarkation Room are useful, but hardly vital, especially if the ship's in transit. Young could've taken the humane option and just left them there until the next time Destiny stopped, or the time after that, or so on until the LA got tired of starving to death and walked through the gate to wherever. I'm sure they didn't leave a Kino-matic Remote, Gate-Dialer, and Vegetable-Chopper in the room, so there'd be no chance they could get back.

 

[The Wormhole]

Why didn't Young vent the gate room's atmosphere, waited until everyone of the L.A. including Rush/Telford was unconscious, then pumped the atmosphere back and revived Rush only.

It's a risky think letting someone asphyxiate to death. There's no guarantee that you could revive someone afterwards. They got lucky the first time with Telford, that's it. Luck.

You emphasized with bold reviving Rush only. The Tau'ri have rules of war

Well, to be honest, venting the gate room to space is the only practical way to deal with the threat of an armed force known to have hostile intent. And besides, the plan must have had O'Neill's approval, since he chewed Young out for not following through on it. We can assume by extension that O'Neill's higher-ups at the Pentagon approved as well.

 

[Lt. Trull]

are you trying to tell us that the military has a habit of sacrificing one group of people for a greater advantage in the grander scheme of the champaign...

if i remember right.... that's how you get command in trek also...
being able to kill your friends when the situation calls for it.

 

[Noname Given]

Why didn't Young vent the gate room's atmosphere, waited until everyone of the L.A. including Rush/Telford was unconscious, then pumped the atmosphere back and revived Rush only.

Problem solved. It would have been the same thing he did to Telford right at the beginning of the episode. Cut off the air, let everyone die, revive Rush.

L.A. could have still busted this plan by opening the doors.

Well, if you're going to acknowledge that, you have to concede Young didn't do anything wrong. If the LA didn't have the door openers, he could've left them locked in there, breathing, indefinitely, with no consequences.

They could've forced the door even if the air was being pumped out, so Young's action had made no difference, so what's the use of criticizing it? Based on the information at hand, there was nothing to keep him from just letting them live for a few minutes. Hell, if he wanted to, the Stargate and Embarkation Room are useful, but hardly vital, especially if the ship's in transit. Young could've taken the humane option and just left them there until the next time Destiny stopped, or the time after that, or so on until the LA got tired of starving to death and walked through the gate to wherever. I'm sure they didn't leave a Kino-matic Remote, Gate-Dialer, and Vegetable-Chopper in the room, so there'd be no chance they could get back.

You guys all realize they DID do two thiings in the episode that show's Young's decision NOT to evactuate the air from the gate room WAS considered a BAD/WRONG decision in that:

We have a scene with Carter where she's told they still have two fighters returning from the planet as it's about to explode, and her response is: "We can't wait, jump to hyperspace..."; and then her report to Cpl. O'Neal of the fact they barely made it away in time and she lost the two pilots...

Then there's the scene between Young and O'Neil where O'Niel states that second guessing a decision is wromg; but THEN effectively chews Young out for NOT evacuatimng the gate room in an effort just to save one man (after citing Carter's situation and command decision); and then he basically asks Youn g if he has the balls to continue, and if not, he'll 'send someone' (via the stones) to take over. I thought it was a great scene, and shows that Young made a personal decision that a more 'hardcore' officer wouldn't have; and he's now paying the price.

 

[David cgc]

Well, yes, but it's the sort of decision he could've been able to get away with. Carter and O'neill themselves have done the same sort of thing, and been lucky enough that it worked out. The first example I can think of is Jack and Sam doddling in the exploding mothership in "Upgrades," later called out on in "Divide and Conquer."

What's the old saying? I'd rather be lucky than good.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Then killing bad guys is wrong? It's war. In a war people get killed. Their first priority was to save the ship and crew, and that's effectively done by killing the attacking enemy. Simple as that. Now don't say you hate every movie in which bad guys are killed.

The moment they arrived through the gate they were clearly not POWs.

"Killing" Telford was the only method to undo the brainwashing. It was not torture. It's the same principle how they managed to reverse Teal'c brainwash. He had to have a slow death experience to realize who he is and what's right and wrong. They helped him. By no definition is that torture. That's the only fictional way to reverse the fictional type of brainwash. Live with it.

Would you say letting drug addicts suffer through painful and ugly withdrawal syndrome is torture as well? Well you're wrong if you do.

Totally not my point. I was not commenting on whether or not venting the gate room would have been a good decision, I was commenting on the fact that people need to pick a side. Either venting the atmosphere out of a room someone is in is acceptable or it isn't, it doesn't change depending on who it is that is being suffocated.

 

[EyalM]

Either venting the atmosphere out of a room someone is in is acceptable or it isn't, it doesn't change depending on who it is that is being suffocated.

Of course it depends...
Suffocating a prisoner who is in your custody is one thing. Laying a trap for enemy soldiers who are coming with guns blazing to kill you is another.

 

[JarodRussell]

Then killing bad guys is wrong? It's war. In a war people get killed. Their first priority was to save the ship and crew, and that's effectively done by killing the attacking enemy. Simple as that. Now don't say you hate every movie in which bad guys are killed.

The moment they arrived through the gate they were clearly not POWs.

"Killing" Telford was the only method to undo the brainwashing. It was not torture. It's the same principle how they managed to reverse Teal'c brainwash. He had to have a slow death experience to realize who he is and what's right and wrong. They helped him. By no definition is that torture. That's the only fictional way to reverse the fictional type of brainwash. Live with it.

Would you say letting drug addicts suffer through painful and ugly withdrawal syndrome is torture as well? Well you're wrong if you do.

You emphasized with bold reviving Rush only. The Tau'ri have rules of war

Yes. The "rules of war" include saving your own forces. So if that means killing the attacking force and saving one of your own people that has been taken hostage, you do that. Someone would revive Rush first, while the others are taking all the weaponry, and then they would attempt to revive the L.A. members. It's war, the L.A. attacked and the attack should have been stopped at all costs. There was a slight risk that the cost would have been Rush's life, but we've seen only a couple of minutes before that Young already killed and brought back someone with the same method. Yet instead Young decides against saving the ship. I don't know how many of the Destiny crew were killed, but because of Young's stupid mistake everyone is about to get killed. O'Neill knew that, which is why he told him the story about Carter sacrificing two well-trained pilots in order to save her ship.

Young is an idiot, and I hope in the second season he gets replaced. Hopefully Telford survives and takes command, leaving Young in charge of the away missions.

 

[Star Wolf]

First and only have different meanings. Only was were the law is broken

 

[JarodRussell]

First and only have different meanings. Only was were the law is broken

Lawl, the law?

 

[Hermiod]

Young should have vented the gate room in to space. The United States is in a state of war with the Lucian Alliance. Yes, that would have meant killing Telford as well, but that's a risk you take. There's a concept of acceptable losses for a reason. Saving the ship and the crew comes before saving one life.