Should they bring back Janeway?

[Admiral James Kirk]

I don't know why anyone who doesn't read the books even gives a fuck that Janeway was killed in a book they haven't even read. I also don't know why they give a fuck that she died in a book when she's still alive in the far more high profile Star Trek Online. More people will play that game than will ever pick up a Star Trek novel. That should please even the most militant MJF.

 

[elaithin]

If only.

 

[JoeP]

That is the great thing about opinions I am entitled to mine & you are entitled to yours.

You weren't stating it as opinion, but as fact. I simply pointed out that what you said wasn't true.

What I find so ridiculous is the notion that to be counted, we have to buy and read books we wouldn't like. Only then should anyone listen to us. It doesn't work that way.

It DOES work that way, and you've been told before why it DOES work that way. You want a certain kind of Voyager novel. Fine. In an entirely different thread, it was suggested to you, and others like you, to purchase such a novel in sufficient numbers, at a specific time, so as to give PB an anomalous spike in sales. Put your money where your mouth is. If all these Janeway fans you speak of are in such large numbers, it shouldn't be a problem demonstrating that to Pocket.

 

[Thestral]

Something I don't understand, maybe somebe can explain it to me.

Why are certain posters saying "I've been a Star Trek fan since ___" as though it matters?

I've been asking this same question since 1977!!

At least you can say "I get paid to do this to your favorites."

These stories are well written, and better than what we are being fed now by Pocket Book/Simon & Schuster.

And they are free! Worth every cent!

As the saying goes "The best things in life are free". ;-P

There's another saying: "You get what you pay for."

And "Free[dom] is just another word for nothing left to lose."

 

[JD]

I'm really sorry, but I really think all of you bring back Janewayers really need to realize that these threads, and this site mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to Pockets Books. Sure the authors and editors hang out here, but it's in an unofficial capacity on their own time.
And I'm sorry, but not matter how much you insist that you're some huge group that will cause a huge shift in Pocket's sales, I'm never going to belive it. Janeway was one of ten main characters in one of the least popular series, so I can pretty much guarentee you that there are a hell of a lot more Kirk fans, or Picards fans than there are you. So as big as you like to talk, I'm pretty sure that you are never actually going to have any effect whatsoever on what happens in the franchise. Especially if you need to get people from other sites, and need to double up on accounts in order to even break a hundred votes on one of the most popular Trek broards on the internet.

 

[Thrawn]

^ Indeed. As I explained earlier, their decision to kill her already made them more money off of ME ALONE than if the entire # of people in the poll bought both Full Circle and Unworthy.

Even if it weren't statistically useless, the poll would mean nothing.

 

[captcalhoun]

there is a reason voyager fans and janeway fans in particular do not visit this forum. I came here strictly to vote.
If i wanted to hear whiny baby boys all day, i'd sit in a daycare

yet all the people who are acting like whiny baby boys are the militant Janeway fans.

ironic? hilarious at least.

 

[RonG]

Sorry in advance for this rant, but...

..this thread has completely lost its original intent, and has now become the battleground between sane, reasonable, Trek novel readers, and Militant Followers of the worst Trek lead character in the 2nd-worst Trek Tv show



IMO, Voyager was 80% crap, and a wasted potential if there was one on a Trek series.

IMO, Voyager novels were almost always a waste of time, and some of the most pointless Trek novels - not to mention juvenile and even absurd (yes, that's your YOY Relaunc right there).

IMO, Pocket's decision to kill off Janeway was not only a great creative decision (filled with irony due to the Borg, and a play on VOY's abysmal TV finale), but a "mercy killing" for a character which had lost its way.



I know some Janeway fans will think that I'm not a real Trek fan, as I've been watching from the start of TNG and saw TOS only in reruns (maybe even that I'm a "punk"..), and it's their right, but I just want to get some real constructive answers from these guys and gals:

1. Is what you want a return to the TV status quo?

2. Will you even read the books after Janeway's back?

3. can you let everyone know how you see her return handled?

Answers to your questions:

1. No.

2. Yes.

3. I see it handled quite well by a good writer--ideally Kirsten Beyer.

The rest of your post is beneath reproach. In fact, I take offense. I am a sane, reasonable Trek novel reader and have been for over thirty years. The fact that you consider Janeway the worst lead and Voyager the second worst series is your opinion. It does not mean that those of us who like the character and series are "juvenile and absurd" or insane and unreasonable. Nor does it mean that we forfeit our right to argue our position as passionately as you do--without casting aspersions on your sanity or taste. Say what you will about Janeway, just show a little common courtesy to those who disagree with you.

First of all, I explicitly wrote that everything is *my* opinion. It doesn't reflect on anyone other than myself.

With that in mind, while I do indeed respect your right to argue and voice your opinion (that IS what we're her for), I think (and will continue to think until shown otherwise), that some of the Janeway fans (the more "militant" / "vocal" ones) are expressing themselves in an unreasonable and, yes, somewhat juvenile manner. It doesn't have anything to do with age, length of time as a Trek fan, or your like/dislike of a certain Trek series and/or character.

For taht matter, you specifically, AuntKate, have been expressing your views (which I disagree with) in a great way, and you shouldn't take offense. If you were offended, that was not my intent and I apologize.

I wasn't referring to all Janeway fans, or even all "MJF's" posting here. Just the ones expressing opinions which I find outragous - which is *my* right.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't know why anyone who doesn't read the books even gives a fuck that Janeway was killed in a book they haven't even read. I also don't know why they give a fuck that she died in a book when she's still alive in the far more high profile Star Trek Online. More people will play that game than will ever pick up a Star Trek novel. That should please even the most militant MJF.

I tried to point out that she's alive in other continuities a few pages ago. They're not listening.

It's become a principle thing

"The novels aren't canon" they've said.

"Read this fanfic it's better than the official books (which I haven't read) and Janeway's still alive in it" they've said.

What amazing arguments.

 

[RonG]

wasn't that how this argument ended last time?

..not with a bang but with a whimper...


You can't convince the Janeway fans, as they're *not* listening, *won't* buy/read the novels (at least according to some of them), and *won't* accept any "compromise" (as if anyone is interested..)

 

[Tidus79001]

Something I don't understand, maybe somebe can explain it to me.

Why are certain posters saying "I've been a Star Trek fan since ___" as though it matters?

I've been asking this same question since 1977!!

At least you can say "I get paid to do this to your favorites."

And they are free! Worth every cent!

As the saying goes "The best things in life are free". ;-P

There's another saying: "You get what you pay for."

And "Free[dom] is just another word for nothing left to lose."

Shouldn't you be berating captcalhoun for his endorsing of fanficiton in his signature?

Also it is disappointing to hear you value freedom so little. Our forefathers thought so much of freedom they were willing to put their lives on the line for it, so that people like you might still benefit & enjoy it even today. To them to lose freedom was to lose everthing that they held dear.

Perhaps you would be happy in a nation living under the oppressive rule of a dictator who would kill your for using freedom to express your opinion & ideas.

 

[Thrawn]

wasn't that how this argument ended last time?

..not with a bang but with a whimper...


You can't convince the Janeway fans, as they're *not* listening, *won't* buy/read the novels (at least according to some of them), and *won't* accept any "compromise" (as if anyone is interested..)

And I'm sure they're all going back to their boards and having a good bitch-session about how intransigent, juvenile, and sexist WE are.

This is an argument that comes from such different fundamental assumptions that it's more or less impossible to come to any kind of agreement; if it helps, I'm quite sure they think we're not listening either.

 

[Thrawn]

Also it is disappointing to hear you value freedom so little. Our forefathers thought so much of freedom they were willing to put their lives on the line for it, so that people like you might still benefit & enjoy it even today. To them to lose freedom was to lose everthing that they held dear.

Perhaps you would be happy in a nation living under the oppressive rule of a dictator who would kill your for using freedom to express your opinion & ideas.

You are SO incisive in your commentary - CLEARLY, if he doesn't like fan fiction, he must HATE AMERICA!

What. The. Hell.

 

[brcarthey]

As for Captain Afsarah Eden her role was temporary & she is a disposable character. I think that I speak for all true Voyager fans when I say they can kill Captain Afsarah Eden off, and no one will care.

Oh so it's alright if you personally don't give a shit about the character, but god forbid they they do it to one you do care about.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

NO IT ISN'T!

Janeway was established, and was part of the canon. There was no need to replace her when Janeway could have fit the new story arc as the Admiral who was leading the return mission to the Delta Quadrant.

Captain Afsarah Eden wasn't wanted, welcome, nor was she needed by the Voyager fans! There was no need to introduce a superfluous character such as her when the lead character on Voyager was sufficiently fine for the role.

actually, BD was completed long before ms. beyer even got the nod to write "full circle." that is why capt. eden is on board. in her own words, she has stated this and how she incorporated janeway's death into her novel (not that i'm trying to be ms. beyer's spokesperson as she posts here regularly) when she set out to write FC she was told to treat janeway as dead, dead, dead. in other words, " gone, split, out of here, afterlife kids, deceased-ahh." it's just something voyager fans need to deal with for now for better and/or worse.

 

[Tidus79001]

Also it is disappointing to hear you value freedom so little. Our forefathers thought so much of freedom they were willing to put their lives on the line for it, so that people like you might still benefit & enjoy it even today. To them to lose freedom was to lose everthing that they held dear.

Perhaps you would be happy in a nation living under the oppressive rule of a dictator who would kill your for using freedom to express your opinion & ideas.

You are SO incisive in your commentary - CLEARLY, if he doesn't like fan fiction, he must HATE AMERICA!

What. The. Hell.

I was responding to Kestrel's quote about how little the value of freedom was.

There's another saying: "You get what you pay for."

And "Free[dom] is just another word for nothing left to lose."

I cant help if you weren't able to see that my response was about that. If you don't like fanfiction that is your choice. No if you don't like fanfiction that doesn't make you a hater of anything since it is your freedom to like it, or not like it. It is your who brought the hate speech into this not me.

You are SO incisive in your commentary - CLEARLY, if he doesn't like fan fiction, he must HATE AMERICA!

What. The. Hell.

 

[Thrawn]

^ What I meant was, you're taking this WAY too seriously. Kestrel was making a joke; he was twisting around a popular saying to make fun of fan fiction. Your response was WAY more ridiculous than his original post.

 

[Tidus79001]

^ What I meant was, you're taking this WAY too seriously. Kestrel was making a joke; he was twisting around a popular saying to make fun of fan fiction. Your response was WAY more ridiculous than his original post.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Thrawn]

...ok, well, whatever the hell that means.

Let's try and get this back on topic.

Tidius: would you agree or disagree with this sentence - "The Star Trek tie-in novels should never change the status quo established in the canonical stories." Agree or disagree?

 

[Tidus79001]

...ok, well, whatever the hell that means.

Let's try and get this back on topic.

Tidius: would you agree or disagree with this sentence - "The Star Trek tie-in novels should never change the status quo established in the canonical stories." Agree or disagree?

It meant I grew bored of this off topic subject.

Time to get back on topic again since this little diversion is neither here nor there.

Oh & I am not going to be baited into your question.

 

[Thrawn]

I'm not trying to bait you, I'm trying to have a conversation!

If you would prefer, restate it this way. Under what circumstances do you think the tie-in novels should be allowed to change the status quo established in the canonical stories?

I'm trying to get a feel for your perspective here, so this doesn't just descend into meaningless hyperbole again.