Should they bring back Janeway?

[Hartzilla2007]

As for Captain Afsarah Eden her role was temporary & she is a disposable character. I think that I speak for all true Voyager fans when I say they can kill Captain Afsarah Eden off, and no one will care.

Oh so it's alright if you personally don't give a shit about the character, but god forbid they they do it to one you do care about.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

 

[Thestral]

Why are certain posters saying "I've been a Star Trek fan since ___" as though it matters?

To pre-empt other posters from asking them how long they've been a ST fan?

The pics I use as TrekBBS avatars are of me, from the early 80s, dressed as an Andorian. I have received PMs dressing me down for being such a young whippersnapper for not agreeing with them - not realising that I'm now 51 and the avatar pics depict Therin of Andor at ages 21 to 30.

It always amuses me when people try and pull rank by age... as though that's the sign of a mature person.

I just braved that horrid "TV Tropes" site again and it mentions, about the "Women in the Refrigerator" trope, that "the original site focused on just the treatment of women in comics but over time, other sources have added men to the list, creating the blanket term "Stuffed In The Fridge" to cover more ground".

So, again, I fail to see that the Janeway case is necessarily a feminism/stereotyping issue. (But then, as a man, of course I'd say that!)

The original link Brit provided is actually a fairly useful/interesting one, put together by comics writer Gail Simone. Unfortunately, it's rather out of date (which is obvious when you see how she refers to Geoff Johns in his response considering Johns' role at DC these days ), but the basic premises that Simone use are pretty interesting and worth checking out.


Which is not at all to say I think Brit is right in categorizing Janeway's death as a WiR.

there is a reason voyager fans and janeway fans in particular do not visit this forum. I came here strictly to vote.
If i wanted to hear whiny baby boys all day, i'd sit in a daycare.

Well thank you for wasting everyone's time, including your own, on a meaningless poll.

As for Captain Afsarah Eden her role was temporary & she is a disposable character. I think that I speak for all true Voyager fans when I say they can kill Captain Afsarah Eden off, and no one will care.

Oh so it's alright if you personally don't give a shit about the character, but god forbid they they do it to one you do care about.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

More than a bit. Horrifically. Blindingly.

Like the worst of comics fans, really.

 

[Therin of Andor]

If i wanted to hear whiny baby boys all day, i'd sit in a daycare.

I don't hear any of the regular TrekLit BBSers doing the whining.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Admiral Janeway is nothing else if not devoted to the well being of her crew.

But they have to comprise only of the people she was stranded with for seven years, because anyone else is an interloper?

You know, if Kirsten Beyer originally drafted this particular story arc to set up the eventual return of Janeway all along, I wonder how many Janeway fans will refuse to be convinced that it wasn't their campaign that restored Janeway to life?

 

[William Leisner]

Something I don't understand, maybe somebe can explain it to me.

Why are certain posters saying "I've been a Star Trek fan since ___" as though it matters?

I've been asking this same question since 1977!!

 

[Kathryn J.]

Yeah, I'm German and a post like this (9th post of the page) pretty much makes it impossible to see the multi-accounting as a joke:

Translation (by me):

I have to admit the first sentence is somewhat difficult to translate verbatim, so if other German speaking posters have a different translation feel free to add it.

Later in the thread (and interestingly enough after I posted the link to the board here), they began to say it was a joke because Kathryn J., who I assume is the same poster here, told them she was asked (probably by Brit according to her post above) if it was a joke.

Doesn't help that some of them aren't able to play along after they have decided to cover it up with the "joke" explanation, when for example one poster says that nobody can say anything if her Grandma votes, too.

I'm from this German board. I'm not only able to read and speak German, I even can think and observe while I'm reading.
Btw I was asked by different people concerning your post who's names aren't of interest here at all.

There were two people on the German board joking. Because I saw posts of these people on other threads (and I'm sure you didn't read other posts of them), where they liked to joke, I'm very sure they joked here too.
They said it themselves that they didn't mean it serious after I warned them not to cheat - even to say it as a joke, because we have no need to do that.
Here are really enough voters FOR bring back Janeway except the few German voters.
I said it officially in the thread and wrote no secret PMs, to prove that all other voters are aware to vote honestly.

Besides, I guess you consider us for quite stupid. BTW: I never saw a betrayer shouting out that he wanted to betray now and even told how he wanted to do it!

If you can't sleep because of the posts on the German board, I suggest you to ask /to talk to the people themselves there - you can German, so please, or are you a coward who sneaks around and talks behind the back of other people?
Second suggestion, if you still suspect other people to cheat: Ask the mods to check the IP addresses. But be aware you might find your "own people" cheating!

No need to waste energy to yell at me, I won't come back unless my friends ask me to do. My time is too precious for unobjective discussions.


PS:
Janeway was exactly treated like these women in refrigerators. So she fits in that concept. It would be a shame if she would share the fate of them.

 

[Brit]

You know, if Kirsten Beyer originally drafted this particular story arc to set up the eventual return of Janeway all along, I wonder how many Janeway fans will refuse to be convinced that it wasn't their campaign that restored Janeway to life?

Actually it dosen't matter because the appearence will be that we did play a part in getting Kathryn Janeway back. What I find funny is that you all will never quite know either and to me that is perfect.

Brit

 

[stonester1]

The point has never been how much money they made by being "ballsy" as you call it, but rather how much money they have lost and lose every day by not keeping Janeway and writing the kind of story her fans are dying to read. That's always been the point.

To back up your side, you say she has no fans or that they are few and non existent. You say prove Janeway fans exist. It cannot be proved unless you are ballsy enough to bring her back and write the kind of story we want to read, that would be what would take courage, much more courage than using Janeway in a third rate story based on a much used and now distained comic book trope. A trope that is thought of by a great number of fans, and writers as being anti female.

It is very interesting that Pocket Books chose Peter David to write the death of Janeway, as he is familiar with the trope and actually tries to defend it as a viable plot devise. I gave you all the link, now go back and read it.

Brit

You talk as if all Janeway fans are the same. No, I'm thinking that the obsessed variety who don't give a crap about the rest of the cast of Voyager and obsessively lock in on Janeway are a tiny minority, and if we lost them all, it would not be a blip on the monetary radar.

 

[Therin of Andor]

What I find funny is that you all will never quite know either and to me that is perfect.

Yeah, I will, because if Kirsten Beyer does an interview one day, discussing how she plotted out the books, and when and what her influences were, I'll be happy to take her answers as those of a dedicated VOY and Janeway fan who got to write a dream run of popular ST novels.

I have no reason to believe that she'll lie to us. I don't care what she decides to do with Janeway, just that she does her best to craft an entertaining ST novel that keeps us thinking. We do know that Ms Beyer is an avid Janeway supporter. I think it's highly likely she'd like to write for the character again. If she says in this future interview that the "Bring Back Janeway" campaign in no way influenced her decisions, I'll believe her. She's already made extensive replies to your concerns in other threads, so you can bet she won't ignore the whole issue. She has nothing to gain from not answering truthfully.

But Brit, the whole "kill off Janeway" arc was instigated to get people buying VOY novels, and to provide new story possibilities. And that's happened. As with the death of Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, The Flash, Captain America, Robin, The Joker, Spock, Kirk, Dax, Sisko and Data, fictional deaths of main characters are successful publicity gatherers. You can't bring someone back with great fanfare unless you kill them off first. Margaret Clark said, as far as she was concerned, Janeway was dead and wasn't coming back. What she didn't say was that no one is going to turn down a compelling story just to keep their original statement true. And, in any case, Margaret is no longer the editor.

I also recall some Janeway fans saying here, the last few times this topic was raised, that they could never read another VOY book, not even a new one set in the time of the TV series, because it will always be tainted by the knowledge that Janeway once died. We can't pacify those fans. In any way I can think of.

What would pacify you? Janeway back, sure, but in what capacity? Would it be sufficient to appease Janeway fans? I'm not so sure.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Janeway was exactly treated like these women in refrigerators. So she fits in that concept. It would be a shame if she would share the fate of them.

I would say that the treatment of Picard (twice, since he was forced to re-live it in "First Contact") and the Borg Queen torturing Data, fits as well. They were able to recuperate, and if Janeway is miraculously cured of death by the Q, she'll be at the same point, won't she? Isn't the trope that it only ever happens to women, because the writers are sexist?

An Admiral Janeway was taken into the Collective in "Endgame" too. Her sacrifice got her younger self home. Seems to me that Janeway and the Borg have been linked way long before her encounter in "Before Dishonor".

 

[Tidus79001]

As for Captain Afsarah Eden her role was temporary & she is a disposable character. I think that I speak for all true Voyager fans when I say they can kill Captain Afsarah Eden off, and no one will care.

Oh so it's alright if you personally don't give a shit about the character, but god forbid they they do it to one you do care about.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

NO IT ISN'T!

Janeway was established, and was part of the canon. There was no need to replace her when Janeway could have fit the new story arc as the Admiral who was leading the return mission to the Delta Quadrant.

Captain Afsarah Eden wasn't wanted, welcome, nor was she needed by the Voyager fans! There was no need to introduce a superfluous character such as her when the lead character on Voyager was sufficiently fine for the role.

 

[William Leisner]

As for Captain Afsarah Eden her role was temporary & she is a disposable character. I think that I speak for all true Voyager fans when I say they can kill Captain Afsarah Eden off, and no one will care.

Oh so it's alright if you personally don't give a shit about the character, but god forbid they they do it to one you do care about.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

NO IT ISN'T!

This is classic. I love it. You've really encapsulated the three-year-old-pitching-a-tantrum-because-she-can't-have-a-cookie tone of the thread perfectly in just one all-caps sentence. Good job!

 

[Tidus79001]

Voyager fans here are links to site that have Voyager Fanfiction stories. I found these stories years before they killed Janeway off (I didn't feel forced to read them as spite of her being killed off).

http://vv8.jetc.org/main.html (this site focus on virtual seasons 8 & 9 for Voyager)

Here is another link with more fan made stories which continue the Voyager series

http://vv8.jetc.org/main.html

I say if they don't want to respect us the Voyager the fans then make your own stories. These stories are well written, and better than what we are being fed now by Pocket Book/Simon & Schuster.

Voyager fans deserves better & Janeway deserves better. These stories are just that, better!

 

[Therin of Andor]

These stories are well written, and better than what we are being fed now by Pocket Book/Simon & Schuster.

And they are free! Worth every cent!

 

[Tidus79001]

These stories are well written, and better than what we are being fed now by Pocket Book/Simon & Schuster.

And they are free! Worth every cent!

As the saying goes "The best things in life are free". ;-P

 

[JoeP]

As for Captain Afsarah Eden her role was temporary & she is a disposable character. I think that I speak for all true Voyager fans when I say they can kill Captain Afsarah Eden off, and no one will care.

Oh so it's alright if you personally don't give a shit about the character, but god forbid they they do it to one you do care about.

Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

Very much so. Not to mention sexist according to some on here. WOMEN ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE is what they screamed.

NO IT ISN'T!

Janeway was established, and was part of the canon. There was no need to replace her when Janeway could have fit the new story arc as the Admiral who was leading the return mission to the Delta Quadrant.

The idea to return to the DQ was not thought of until AFTER Janeway was offed, so no, she couldn't have filled a role that didn't exist at the time.

Captain Afsarah Eden wasn't wanted, welcome, nor was she needed by the Voyager fans! There was no need to introduce a superfluous character such as her when the lead character on Voyager was sufficiently fine for the role.

I am a Voyager fan and I found here quite welcoming, in fact, so don't presume to speak for others. She's obviously intended to be a big part of the series, and since Janeway is dead, she's not superfluous at all. She serves a purpose; someone needs to command the fleet. She is doing so.

 

[Tidus79001]

I am a Voyager fan and I found here quite welcoming, in fact, so don't presume to speak for others. She's obviously intended to be a big part of the series, and since Janeway is dead, she's not superfluous at all. She serves a purpose; someone needs to command the fleet. She is doing so.

That is the great thing about opinions I am entitled to mine & you are entitled to yours. I can respect your opinion, and I don't feel threatened by it. However I think more Voyager fans would likely prefer to have Janeway (this poll is proof of that).

 

[Therin of Andor]

As the saying goes "The best things in life are free". ;-P

I've been through the fanfic mill. So much of it is written by complete amateurs, with no editorial shaping whatsoever, so it means potential readers having to wade through a lot of trash to get to anything mildly interesting.

Sadly, the advent of online storage means that fanfic zine editors no longer have to weigh up if a fan effort is worth spending money on binding, paper and postage, so the situation is now much worse than the days of carbon paper and copy typing.

I put my faith (and $$$) in Pocket Books to weed out all the chaff and only publish the best ST fiction from the manuscripts they receive. Sadly, for you, it's not what you like to read.

I think more Voyager fans would likely prefer to have Janeway (this poll is proof of that).

The poll proved that Internet polls are only worth the cost of the paper they are printed on.

 

[Brit]

I also recall some Janeway fans saying here, the last few times this topic was raised, that they could never read another VOY book, not even a new one set in the time of the TV series, because it will always be tainted by the knowledge that Janeway once died. We can't pacify those fans. In any way I can think of.

What would pacify you? Janeway back, sure, but in what capacity? Would it be sufficient to appease Janeway fans? I'm not so sure.

I will be very specific, I would like Janeway back, commanding Voyager as an Admiral (it is canon that Admrials have flagships.) Personally I would want her to have a relationship with Chakotay and I would like all the Voyager characters to have a part in that book. But I cannot have any of that unless she is broght back.

What I find so redicilus is the notion that to be counted, we have to buy and read books we wouldn't like. Only then should anyone listen to us. It doesn't work that way.

You can believe anything you want, I really don't care. When Janeway is brought back one of two things will be true. Either it was planned all along, or we forced it and I don't care which one is true because I will have got what I wanted either way. What I do know is that if we don't voice our opinion and there were no plans to bring her back then we have lost.

I do know I have been given no reason to trust Kirsten Beyer, any Trek Editor or Pocket Books.

Brit

 

[Therin of Andor]

What I find so redicilus is the notion that to be counted, we have to buy and read books we wouldn't like. Only then should anyone listen to us. It doesn't work that way.

Yeah, it does, because Pocket won't be making books for people who've said they refuse to buy.

When Janeway is brought back one of two things will be true. Either it was planned all along, or we forced it and I don't care which one is true because I will have got what I wanted either way.

No, if Janeway comes back it'll be because that presented the best opportunity to create the next strong storyline.