A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[David cgc]

In the first draft of the story, Garibaldi was supposed to sleep with Dodger (after Jerry Doyle complained that Dr. Franklin was the only one on the show getting laid). Doyle then said, no, he meant he wanted to nail Talia, and he thought it wasn't in Garibaldi's character to go for a one-night stand while he was carrying a torch for her.

 

[stonester1]

Oh yeah, the episode. Now I'm a bit of a left-wing pinko that has little interest in the armed services, but even I don't like it when Hollywood makes the military out to be a bunch of jarheads. The sergeant guy that started a bar brawl because someone accidentally spilled a drink on him seemed annoyingly stupid, and the bar-brawl itself was just comical, I think I actually saw someone swinging from a chandelier.

Hate to tell you this, TGB, but you do find those in the military. Especially in bar situation, double especially when intoxication comes into play.

 

[Skywalker]

Wait... an Irishman drunk-posting on March 16th?

Yes, we love the celebrate the death of Julius Caesar over here with several days of drinking. We hate him for attempting to occupy our good friends, the English.

Though in all fairness, at that time they weren't English yet.

 

[chrisspringob]

It's true that GROPOS only mentions the Narn-Centauri War in passing, but you have to keep in mind the context of the time in which this series was made. B5 Season 2 aired concurrently with DS9 Season 3 and The X-Files Season 2. Both of those shows regularly had big arc episodes one week, and then the following week's ep didn't mention the previous week's events at all, almost as if they were occurring in a different universe. DS9 didn't really become much more serialized than that until about Season 5.

In 1995, there was no SF TV in the vein of Lost, where it's "all arc, all the time". That sort of thing didn't really exist yet. In B5, yes, you had big arc eps followed by unrelated standalones. But hey, at least the big arc episodes could come at any point in the season, and not just in season premieres and finales, as was common in many shows of the era.

But don't worry, the Narn-Centauri conflict will come up again in another couple of eps. It is just not the only thing that's going on in Season 2. There are a lot of different threads to be explored.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I don't mind the stand-alone episodes. I just happen to not like the ones written by Larry DiTillo.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

GROPOS was pretty mediocre, people above are right about the ridiculous army cliches. Just another in a string of many mediocre early S2 episodes.

The truth is, as I've bloviated about, B5 just frequently isn't good at the stuff that isn't big arc events. When I pick out what I think are the best episodes of the season ("The Coming of Shadows", and some others) they're almost heavily arc related.

Agreed. For a show that's hailed as one of the best sci-fi shows EVER, it can be really REALLY pedestrian when not dealing with big arc episodes. Pedestrian as in Star Trek episodes with less acting and budget.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Wait... an Irishman drunk-posting on March 16th?

Yes, we love the celebrate the death of Julius Caesar over here with several days of drinking. We hate him for attempting to occupy our good friends, the English.

Though in all fairness, at that time they weren't English yet.

Yep, we Angles were still living in Schleswig-Holstein at the time. I think TGB means the Brittunculi.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I don't mind the stand-alone episodes. I just happen to not like the ones written by Larry DiTillo.

Though the episode that he wanted to make for Crusade involving Matheson and the Apocalypse Box actually sounds rather good -- the way he tells it.

 

[Lindley]

what got me is the last shot where all the people we where introduced too all died within a foot of each other

The two who were friends died next to each other. The panning shot cross-faded to another location for the others, if I remember right.

 

[Reverend]

Oh yeah, the episode. Now I'm a bit of a left-wing pinko that has little interest in the armed services, but even I don't like it when Hollywood makes the military out to be a bunch of jarheads. The sergeant guy that started a bar brawl because someone accidentally spilled a drink on him seemed annoyingly stupid, and the bar-brawl itself was just comical, I think I actually saw someone swinging from a chandelier.

Hate to tell you this, TGB, but you do find those in the military. Especially in bar situation, double especially when intoxication comes into play.

Speaking as someone that used to live right next door to a squaddie pub, I've seen fights kick off for much less than that...mind you more often than not it's the army wives rather than the soldiers that get into fist fights, but the point remains valid.
Plus of course the one that kicked it off is the same git that tried to beat up Delenn for having hair. This is not a guy that feels he needs much of an excuse to deck someone and yes, you get jarheads like that in the army (or marines in this case) too.

As for the "military stereotypes", sometimes a stereotype or a cliché exists for a good reason. I swear, I've met the real PFC Large, though he wasn't a cigar chomping black guy built like a brick shithouse so much as a port drinking Welshman built like a brick shithouse

 

[stonester1]

Too right on the military wives thing, Reverend. Seen it myself and was completely shocked when it happened in front of me.

 

[Kegg]

Yes, we love the celebrate the death of Julius Caesar over here with several days of drinking. We hate him for attempting to occupy our good friends, the English.

Though in all fairness, at that time they weren't English yet.

Yep, we Angles were still living in Schleswig-Holstein at the time. I think TGB means the Brittunculi.

Yes but Caesar died on the 15th.

I suspect it's a trifle deliberate.

 

[MPH]

Like others have said the non arc related stories are mediocre to bad and not worth watching. Im rewatching the series but find myself missing out the non arc eps so in S2 there was only about 7 episodes I actually watched. I just find it hard to watch the standalones as some of the acting and dialogue is so bad.

 

[Forbin]

GROPOS was pretty mediocre, people above are right about the ridiculous army cliches. Just another in a string of many mediocre early S2 episodes.

The truth is, as I've bloviated about, B5 just frequently isn't good at the stuff that isn't big arc events. When I pick out what I think are the best episodes of the season ("The Coming of Shadows", and some others) they're almost heavily arc related.

Agreed. For a show that's hailed as one of the best sci-fi shows EVER, it can be really REALLY pedestrian when not dealing with big arc episodes. Pedestrian as in Star Trek episodes with less acting and budget.

Back when they were both on, I think most of us here agreed that B5 did the big arcs best, and DS9 did the little personal stories best.

 

[TheGodBen]

All Alone in the Night (**)

Sheridan forgets the first rule of being a space captain; if you fly off on a mission only supported by redshirts you will be captured and they will all die. In this case Sheridan is abducted by some Greys who keep him hostage and force him to fight some aliens who are wearing evil mind controlling hats. It must have been horrible for the aliens wearing those hats, they were terribly unfashionable, I couldn't imagine how silly I'd look wearing one. Anyway, Sheridan shifts into Kirk-mode and refuses to kill the aliens for the Greys' enjoyment, he just beats them with big, heavy iron bars. In the end Sheridan teams up with a Narn and they both escape the horrible sci-fi cliché.

I'm guessing the Greys were gathering intel for the Shadows, but that doesn't excuse the story for sucking so bad.

Meanwhile, Delenn goes and meets the Grey Council (not affiliated with the Greys) and gets told that she's a freak by her peers because of her hair. Ah, the memories of my teenage years come flooding back... Anyway, Neroon takes her place on the council, then he makes a speech which makes a lot of sense to me and makes me wish the Minbari had wiped out humanity while they had the chance. Shared souls, yeah right. Neroon for President!

The episode finally gets good as Sinclair (Edit: I meant Sheridan! Damn these S names!) and Admiral Leyton begin a counter-conspiracy against the Psi Corps and the evil President Clark, which is unfortunate because that's when it ends. Ah well, until next time...

Captain Greyshirt: 11
Scott Bakula: 27

 

[Can]

All Alone in the Night (**)

Sheridan forgets the first rule of being a space captain; if you fly off on a mission only supported by redshirts you will be captured and they will all die. In this case Sheridan is abducted by some Greys who keep him hostage and force him to fight some aliens who are wearing evil mind controlling hats. It must have been horrible for the aliens wearing those hats, they were terribly unfashionable, I couldn't imagine how silly I'd look wearing one. Anyway, Sheridan shifts into Kirk-mode and refuses to kill the aliens for the Greys' enjoyment, he just beats them with big, heavy iron bars. In the end Sheridan teams up with a Narn and they both escape the horrible sci-fi cliché.

I'm guessing the Greys were gathering intel for the Shadows, but that doesn't excuse the story for sucking so bad.

Meanwhile, Delenn goes and meets the Grey Council (not affiliated with the Greys) and gets told that she's a freak by her peers because of her hair. Ah, the memories of my teenage years come flooding back... Anyway, Neroon takes her place on the council, then he makes a speech which makes a lot of sense to me and makes me wish the Minbari had wiped out humanity while they had the chance. Shared souls, yeah right. Neroon for President!

The episode finally gets good as Sinclair and Admiral Leyton begin a counter-conspiracy against the Psi Corps and the evil President Clark, which is unfortunate because that's when it ends. Ah well, until next time...

Captain Greyshirt: 11
Scott Bakula: 27

The whole point of Streib storyline and Sheridan's abduction was the visions he saw while he was in captive...Other than that it was an empty story device...

 

[Harvey]

I have a soft spot for All Alone in the Night, though you're review is pretty spot on. It does introduce a recurring character, and probably not the one that you think. Too much of a spoiler? Bah.

 

[stonester1]

This one introduced a few elements that would recurr. And showed the first real signs that Delenn's decision to manifest prophecy would cause her problems. And you heard the first mention of why the Minbari surrendered at "The Line" when they were poised to butt-rape humanity w/o lube.

It was somewhat less than it's parts, but the parts still make it worthwhile.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Anyway, Neroon takes her place on the council, then he makes a speech which makes a lot of sense to me and makes me wish the Minbari had wiped out humanity while they had the chance. Shared souls, yeah right.

The minbari are very much a theocratic based government despite the claims of equal representation of all castes within their central government. Of course

Spoiler: ...

the warrior castes attempt to take control and turn it into a military dictatorship doesn't work out well either and I suspect the same will be proven true in the future of Delenn's worker dominated government

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Anyway, Neroon takes her place on the council, then he makes a speech which makes a lot of sense to me and makes me wish the Minbari had wiped out humanity while they had the chance. Shared souls, yeah right.

The minbari are very much a theocratic based government despite the claims of equal representation of all castes within their central government.

Even the name of the ruling body says it all; Grey Council- "grey" being the language of the Religious caste, Adrenato, (the Warriors are "dark", Vik, the Workers "light", Lenn-ah). In fact, I've been thinking about that...

Spoiler: Minbari goverernment and history.

"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light". The light, I assume, is Minbar, its cities of crystal (maintained by the workers, who speak "Light"). The candle is the symbol of hearth and home. The darkness is the distant threat of the shadows (the Grey Council was formed to stand against the Shadows during the last great war) and so the darkness means the war. The warriors go out and fight that war, far from home, living in violence and chaos. They become the darkness, in a sense. They speak "Dark" and their flagship is the Black Star. The Grey Council is on a ship, situated neither on Minbar nor in the dark places where the warriors fight. So, they stand between the candle and the star. This leaves us with the Religious caste as Grey. The Religious caste, who keep the prophecies and are allied with or direct the Anla'shok, would be between the warriors holding the line and the workers building and maintaining the cities. The Anla'shok serve the One. Valen, whose memory they honour, was an aspect of the One (the One who was). Valen created the council. So, is the Grey Council supposed to reflect the religious caste? If so, what does this mean for the supposed unity of the castes, all equal? Is this partly why the warriors are so concerned about religious influence over the Council that they risk upsetting the balance by replacing Delenn with Neroon?