What Amazes Me

[Devon]

but that won't change the fact that there were a lot of problems in it.

This should be rephrased to "won't change the fact that I had a lot of problems with it." There is nothing factual if it had a lot of problems or not.

 

[Withers]

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that this whole discussion, while it may seem very negativist on my part, is actually my way of processing and working through the elements of the film I disliked and getting them out of my system, so that I may theoretically be able to enjoy it more in the future. Does that sound fair?

It's not only fair, that's what we do. Without discussions between fans who disagree (contrary to what some of the staff around here thinks) this place would be very boring.

"I loved it."
"Me too."

Thread over. The original intent of this thread was to call attention to specifically what we just described; hatred for the film as defined by a series of really tiny details as opposed to something more legitimate like a true dislike of the characters themselves. So, I feel as though my job here is done.

(Sheesh, don't log on for one day, and three whole pages go by!)

Oh god I know. If I had put two and two together (that there were probably other Star Trek fans hanging out on the internet) sooner I'd never have made it through college.

-Withers-​

 

[Nerys Myk]

Argument from apathy. If you don't care, why spend time whinging at others objections and sniping at people who do care about such things? Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Because I find the psychopathology of such people intriguing.

 

[shadowedgalaxy]

Are you guys still arguing about a movie?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, its one othe reason these forums exists. To talk about Star Trek and on occasion disagree. You're here to do what exactly?

 

[BurntSynapse]

This should be rephrased to "won't change the fact that I had a lot of problems with it." There is nothing factual if it had a lot of problems or not.

This reader will give the writing style recommendation of that first sentence all the credibility justified by the second.

I am curious whether Aquaman's...oops...drunk Scotty's ability to stay conscious in the engineering tubing with Kirk yelling for him to "hold on" while being flushed through pipes has any problems. What about the giant Veg-o-matic with a Scotty-size valve? ...or heading into the valve headfirst, then falling feetfirst 10+ meters, and landing on a solid deck without a scratch, nor any excess draining from the massive water pipes?

Can we honestly and certainly claim there is nothing a neutral, average viewer would likely consider problems with this scene unless they were biased? I'll even give the silly "inert reactant" label a complete pass.

 

[BurntSynapse]

For you. I thought most of the dialogue did exactly what it was supposed to do and I'm sure that even if you replaced every line with a line more to your liking it won't "improve" the film to something that you'd like.

Such certainty in the absence of evidence will probably serve your continued, maximum enjoyment of this film.

Such faith is clearly praised by the characters in nuTrek.

 

[ST-One]

... The last segment I checked (minute 87) starts with Kirk saying "You know, coming back in time, changing history, that's cheating." as if Spock was trying to murder his mother and destroy Vulcan. Spock's reply? "A trick..." Ridiculous! and the whole film is filled with essentially the same. ...

That's almost breaking the fourth wall. This line, as well as Spock's earlier explanation was intended for those who care about the connection to the 'original timeline' and/or for those too... slow to understand the implications of Nero's travel through time.

 

[ST-One]

The dialogue wasn't a major problem.

I could have done with a lot less profanity.

'Bullshit!'

 

[ST-One]

Ooo! Let me try!!

Crew 1: You should see this! It looks like a lightning storm!
(Makes sense since the Kelvin is practically in front of the storm to the point where the lightning is being reflected off the hull. But later...)
Captain Robau: Report?
Crew 2: Still out of visual range.

Mhmm... don't remember this.
But I do remember Randy Pausch walking across the screen an stating 'We have a visual.'

Captain Robau: Fire all phasers!
(Torpedoes are heard being fired which the Kelvin does not have)

We only see phasers being fired (and those blue interceptor ... things). So, those sounds we hear are phasers not torpedoes.

Captain Robau: Damage report?
Crew 3: Warp drive has been knocked out! Never seen anything like it!
(After more harsh bombardments later, the warp drive still functions. Why not use the Impulse engines?)

Crew 3: Weapons are offline!
(Not five seconds later, Kelvin is still firing it's pulse canons and phasers, even after more devastating blows)

Yeah, are really stupid editing error.

Officer: How the hell did that cadet beat your test?
(....really? What gives you the impression he did anything? The simulator's lights went out, no one knew what was going on, Kirk wasn't doing anything in the simulator that would cause it to happen, and you actually think he beat this test?)

He was in command of the simulation. He did beat the test.

(From the script when Nero and crew are escaping Rura Penthe)
Nero: Ayel, the wait is over.

Who cares what's only in the script or a trailer?

(Later)
Ayel: What are your orders?
Nero: We wait(?). We wait for the one who allowed our home to be destroyed. That's what we've been doing for the past 25 years.
(So the wait is not over?)
Ayel: And once we've killed him?
Nero: Kill him? I'm not going to kill him. I'm going to make him watch.
(If by 'make' him watch, you leave him on a dangerous hostile planet and hope he lives long enough to see the destruction of Vulcan, which isn't really making him do anything since he could, I don't know, NOT watch Vulcan get destroyed?)

Pike: Cadet, do you speak Romulan?
Uhura: Uhura, All three dialects.
(Later)
Uhura: Sir, I'm not picking up any Romulan Transmissions, or any other transmissions.
(So the whole entire point of knowing the Romulan language is rendered pointless. Even more so since the Romulans speak perfect english)

If you actually followed the dialogue, you'd understand that you don't have a point.

(The Enterprise takes one hit from the Narada)
Sulu: Weapons are powerful sir! We can't take another hit like that!
(The Kelvin was able to still function even after two direct hits, but the Enterprise, the brand new flagship of the Federation is doomed if it takes two?)

Drama.

NuKirk: What kind of combat training do you have?
Sulu: Fencing.
(Sulu's non-fencing Katana and fighting style on the Drill is NOT associated with fencing)

How dare they go for the laugh.

NuKirk: Did you bring the charges?
Olsen: Oh, yes! I can't wait to kick some Romulan ass!
(Why? What's your beef against the Romulans? And did anyone notice that Olsen isn't really carrying anything? His suit looks as plain and vacant as Kirk and Sulu's. Where are the charges? Are they pencil sized? If they're pencil sized and there are many of them (charges=plural=more than one charge), why give them all to one person?)

Olsen is an in-joke. A redshirt.
As a trek-fan you should have know he's toast the moment you saw him.

Sulu: Olsen had the charges!
NuKirk: I know!
Sulu: What do we do?
NuKirk: This!
(They pick up the Romulan guns and shoot at the evil drill. Geez, is Sulu really that dumb? If you gave him a candle and a box of matches, he'd probably not know what the two have to do with each other.)

Uhura: The jamming signal's gone. Transport abilities are reestablished.
Chekov: Transporter control is reengaged, sir.
*Viewscreen shows "Trans-Online"*
Crew 4: Transporters are operational.
(Congratulations Uhura, your role of answering phone calls has been reduced to the position of alerting us on what we already know)

Spock: *To Uhura* Alert Vulcan Command Center to signal a planet-wide evacuation, all channels, all frequencies.
Uhura: Spock, wait! *leaves her station*
(...Vulcan has minutes left, Spock orders Uhura to contact Vulcan and evacuate as many people as possible and she leaves her station... We're in the middle of a planet wide disaster, she's supposed to be the best communications officer there is and she LEAVES HER STATION!)

Oh, for crying out loud!

NuKirk: What would an angry future Romulan want with Captain Pike?
Sulu: As Captain, he does know details about Starfleet defenses.
(Pike is one stupid Captain. Not only does he come up with a stupid plan to help Vulcan that *shock* fails, he gives himself up to the Romulans knowing that if they somehow did get the information from him that the Federation would be defenseless. And why would the Federation have a defense system like that where you can simply turn them off and not reactivate them? Well, I don't see him having a long career *Pike is promoted to Admiral* GOD DAM*****!!!!)

What should he have done instead? Nothing?
At least he tried to save Vulcan?
He gave himself up so that they could try to save the planet.
That they failed to do that was due to the shortness of time and the resulting lack of information on their enemy.

NuKirk: Acting captain Spock has marooned me on Delta Vega, in what I believe to be a violation of Security Protocol 49.09
(Kirk, you disobeyed direct orders from your superior officer, verbally harassed him in front of the entire crew and physically assaulted with the intent to harm two on-duty officers. You are in no position to argue about protocols.)

NuKirk: Going back in time, you changed all our lives.
(No he didn't. Spock didn't know the red matter would do cause both him and Nero to travel back in time, he didn't know what Nero would do, and he sure as heck didn't affect your life directly. Everything that's been changed happened because of NERO!)

NuKirk: Coming back in time, changing history, that's cheating.
(For crying out loud. Spock didn't change history! It was Nero! EVERYTHING that happened before Prime Spock arrived was out of his control and understanding.)

Oy. You completely missed the point of those two lines.

Uhura: I hope you know what you're doing, Captain.
(What makes you think he knows anything? For all you know, he just insulted and provoked your boyfriend AGAIN and you're ok with that?Why? Why aren't you demanding an explanation to Kirk's very obvious lack of common sense?!)

Hence the 'I hope...'
Lack of common sense. Where was the sense in not pursuing Nero?

*Nero just lost the red matter, the drill is destroyed and everything he planned for is in ruins. He decides not to kill Kirk, goes to the bridge and....*
Nero: Open a channel!
Romulan: Yes sir!
Nero: Spock! I knew I should have killed you when I had the chance!
Spock: I hereby confiscate this illegally obtained ship and order you to surrender your vessel. No terms.
Nero: That ship, take it out!
Romulan: Sir, if you ignite the red matter-
Nero: I want Spock dead now!
(Yes, Nero decides to stop killing Kirk so he can tell spock his regrets. If you wanted him dead now, why not just tell us while you were strangling Kirk instead of running up to the bridge to just talk to Spock?)

Mhmm... let's see. Kirk isn't the one he's after.

Nero: What's he doing?
Computer: Ambassador Spock, you are on a collision course.
Nero: FIRE EVERYTHING!
(Uh, sir? Why don't we try capturing him again? It worked the first time. That way you can kill Spock with your bare hands, get the red matter back AND continue on your mission to destroy the Federation.)
*All the missiles are destroyed and the Jellyfish is still coming*
Nero: *silent*
(Uh, full reverse? Move out of the way? Fire again? Capture him? At least that god awful Shinzon said hard to port!)

What about 'Fire everything!' didn't you understand?
He was out of options. Beside, unlike Shinzon, Nero wasn't a military commander.

 

[Jeyl]

Olsen is an in-joke. A redshirt.
As a trek-fan you should have know he's toast the moment you saw him.

Yes, that's what made Star Trek all along. Treating characters like in-jokes and expecting you to know what's going to happen. Good writing my aunt fanny.

Mhmm... let's see. Kirk isn't the one he's after.

So why doesn't Nero demand to know where Spock is instead of just outright killing Kirk? He's just wasting his time with NuKirk for no good reason.

Oh, for crying out loud!

That's what I said. When there's an imminent disaster occurring and you've been tasked to handle it, you do not sway from that duty. Her concern is understandable, but she should know that trying to save as many people as possible is WAY more important than raising concern about Spock. It's a dumb character moment that is very unprofessional. And that's not the last time she does it either. She leaves her station two more times after that, and to do what? Hug Spock. This NuUhura sucks.

 

[ST-One]

Olsen is an in-joke. A redshirt.
As a trek-fan you should have know he's toast the moment you saw him.

Yes, that's what made Star Trek all along. Treating characters like in-jokes and expecting you to know what's going to happen. Good writing my aunt fanny.

Not doing this is what turned Trek stale.
We (the fans)know that the redshirts die, why not make a joke about it?

Mhmm... let's see. Kirk isn't the one he's after.

So why doesn't Nero demand to know where Spock is instead of just outright killing Kirk? He's just wasting his time with NuKirk for no good reason.

Why should he ask him?
At this point everything still goes the way he wants it to go.

 

[ST-One]

Oh, for crying out loud!

That's what I said. When there's an imminent disaster occurring and you've been tasked to handle it, you do not sway from that duty. Her concern is understandable, but she should know that trying to save as many people as possible is more important than questioning Spock. It's a dumb character moment that is very unprofessional. And that's not the last time she does it either. She leaves her station two more times after that! And to do what? Hug Spock. This NuUhura sucks.

No, these characters aren't automatons. They act like a normal human being would act, especially if a loved-one is about to place himself into a dangerous situation.
Besides, we, the audience, need to know what Spock's up to.

 

[Jeyl]

No, these characters aren't automatons. They act like a normal human being would act, especially if a loved-one is about to place himself into a dangerous situation.

And the people down on Vulcan, who also have loved ones that are in a dangerous situation that depends on the actions of the crew don't really amount to anything? Yes, Uhura's concern is far more important than the combined love of an entire planet's population.

Besides, we, the audience, need to know what Spock's up to.

Ya, cause beaming down to Vulcan and finding his parents wouldn't be enough to fill the audience in on what he was doing.

 

[Kirk1980]

It just shows where the differences in people's opinions originate.

The critics seem to be treating instances like Uhura's unprofessional behavior as poorly written oversentimental crap and those who like it care more that they act like 'real' people than officers.

Which is fine, I suppose. I mean, most popular sci-fi these days relies on you not to think about what the consequences of the characters' emotionalism is and it seems to win over audiences.

Me, I just think Uhura's written as a poor officer who if I were her captain, would be removed from duty immediately. That's why characters in the older shows were tormented, especially the captains. Their duties often were at odds with their attempts at relationships.

In Abrams' version of Trek, would there be an episode like The Naked Time? I somewhat doubt it. Or even if there was, there wouldn't be the same level of impact as these characters likely would not restrain themselves emotionally like Kirk and Spock did in that episode.

 

[stonester1]

It just shows where the differences in people's opinions originate.

The critics seem to be treating instances like Uhura's unprofessional behavior as poorly written oversentimental crap and those who like it care more that they act like 'real' people than officers.

Which is fine, I suppose. I mean, most popular sci-fi these days relies on you not to think about what the consequences of the characters' emotionalism is and it seems to win over audiences.

Me, I just think Uhura's written as a poor officer who if I were her captain, would be removed from duty immediately. That's why characters in the older shows were tormented, especially the captains. Their duties often were at odds with their attempts at relationships.

In Abrams' version of Trek, would there be an episode like The Naked Time? I somewhat doubt it. Or even if there was, there wouldn't be the same level of impact as these characters likely would not restrain themselves emotionally like Kirk and Spock did in that episode.

See, but it's not that clear cut. Sometimes duty does demand that you "restrain". But Star Trek has also shown that sometimes you need to "give yourself permission to be selfish", to take care of yourself. You aren't the best Starfleet member, or best person, making yourself an automaton totally devoted to duty.

It's never that cut and dry, and sometimes people make mistakes.

Trek, if anything, has erred on the side of "duty". So perhaps erring the other way, especially if it didn't endanger anyone, is not such a bad thing.

 

[Kirk1980]

A look between the two of them would have sufficed, I should think?

Me, I wish they would keep erring on the side of duty. It's far more interesting to me to watch that sort of struggle.

 

[stonester1]

For me, it's interesting to see them "err" the other way every now and then. Especially for a young, green officer, one might be even more prone to such errors.

Plus, that "error" was designed to also establish a key relationship AND establish that this Trek was not going to stick with the "expected".

All of that was accomplished.

 

[John200]

I'm amazed that Star Trek fans can be so bothered by what other people like/dislike.

I liked the movie and someone else didn't. Who cares? I've spent most of my life liking things that no one else likes and disliking things that are really popular.

I don't know why either.

I've been told to my face that Star Trek sucked ,and I didn't bat an eye.

 

[ST-One]

No, these characters aren't automatons. They act like a normal human being would act, especially if a loved-one is about to place himself into a dangerous situation.

And the people down on Vulcan, who also have loved ones that are in a dangerous situation that depends on the actions of the crew don't really amount to anything? Yes, Uhura's concern is far more important than the combined love of an entire planet's population.

Besides, we, the audience, need to know what Spock's up to.

Ya, cause beaming down to Vulcan and finding his parents wouldn't be enough to fill the audience in on what he was doing.

No, it would not have been enough.