Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman film

[Christopher]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

I certainly approve of the idea of a female director. The animated Wonder Woman movie was directed by Lauren Montgomery, who did a good job with it. And Gail Simone wrote its story, though the screenplay was by Michael Jelenic.

I read a column recently saying that Wonder Woman is so hard to get right because she's expected to be the exemplar for all female heroes, a singular icon of femininity, and so she's saddled with so many expectations that just about any interpretation is going to be seen as falling short. The columnist suggested that male heroes don't have this problem because there are so many of them that none of them is expected to be the embodiment of all manhood. Her suggestion was that if we had more top-tier female heroes to share the load, maybe Wonder Woman wouldn't have to be all things to all people and would have an easier time being herself.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

As much as I was looking forward to seeing a Joss Whedon written and directed "Wonder Woman" movie I think the delays and his inability to finish a draft obviously hurt the project and aside from the spec script that apparently the studio really liked (which I've read and is very much a period piece and would have been a decent but not epic Wonder Woman film) I haven't heard much news on the project so I'm eager to hear whatever it is that DC ENT has to announce. Lauren Montgomery's animated "Wonder Woman" was excellent and was pretty close to how I would see a live action feature being depicted. I had not heard that Joel Silver was an obstacle in getting Joss's film off the ground I have read that Joss himself was the problem in not finishing a suitable script.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

I had not heard that Joel Silver was an obstacle in getting Joss's film off the ground I have read that Joss himself was the problem in not finishing a suitable script.

It's all a matter of perspective. The key is, "suitable" by whose standard? In this case, it meant that Whedon's ideas for the story didn't match what Joel Silver wanted to do. Movies are not a writers' medium. Movie executives see writers as hired contractors whose job is to produce what the executives want them to produce. Their work is "suitable" when it matches the executives' marching orders. So it doesn't mean that Whedon's script wasn't a good story, just that it wasn't the story Joel Silver had in mind.

As for the animated movie, it was okay, but I feel it had the same problem as the DCAU depiction of Wonder Woman -- namely that it focused almost wholly on her warrior side and barely touched on the diplomat side, the compassionate and constructive aspects of her character. I'm hoping the live-action feature will play up the idea of Diana as an ambassador and stateswoman, because that's one thing that makes WW distinct from other superhero stories and could give it a fresh angle.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

^ That's an aspect of the character I'm looking forward to seeing myself.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

^All things I don't see Charisma Carpenter being able to effictively portray

 

[Admiral_Young]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Yeah I was never a fan of that rumor myself despite being a big Charisma fan, she'd be great with all the romance and action sequences but the political stuff that comes with the character I think would be difficult to come across. Casting the "right" Diana seems to me like it would be quite the difficult job and not just because of her physical appearance and physique. There are complexities and underlying issues that Diana has to deal with as well.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Sounds promising. I have the impression that Silver was the main obstacle to getting Joss Whedon's version made.

Although I'm thinking that the best choice to write a Wonder Woman movie would be Gail Simone. Maybe with Whedon directing?

Whedon had his shot at Wonder Woman. And now that he's also coming off of a failed TV series, I seriously doubt that Warner Bros. will bother with him again.

Lord only knows who Warners will turn to for this one. Wonder Woman is harder than all the others put together.

1. Her mission as currently conceived is far more complicated to get across to an audience than Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, Spider-Man, Daredevil, etc - they all follow a certain, familiar mythic form which is sort of, but not quite applicable to Wonder Woman. A complicated mission is problematic in a superhero movie. Witness Wolverine. And WW is even harder than that because the mission has all this gender baggage attached to it. Are men the bad guys? Doesn't that feel all 1974? If men aren't the bad guys, does that mean Diana comes from a culture of weird zealots? Basically, someone needs to reconceive her origins because what flies in the comics isn't going to work for a broad audience. And that's not even getting into the deeper gender stuff like having a supposedly feminist icon warrior running around in an outfit primarily designed to show off her tits and ass.

2. Her imagery is confused. An Amazon styled as if she is the inheritor of classical Greek culture (Amazons were actually enemies of the Greeks, hated and reviled by the Greeks), with a Roman name wearing an American flag bathing suit to fight crime? And all this classical stuff is hard to translate to a contemporary audience anyway even if you don't know how muddled it is in terms of actual history. Although if there was ever a time, it's now with Percy Jackson and the Olympians, Clash of the Titans and God of War all in the hopper. Or else it runs the risk of coming out after all this when the public is sick of Greek mythology in the movies.

So I say to Warners - good luck with that.

WW purists would tear their hair out, but a dramatically restructured origin would be a much easier sell. Something along these lines perhaps: A baby is born to the Queen of the Amazons on Paradise Island (with one of the gods as her father, perhaps Zeus himself, rather than the whole made from clay bit). The baby is blessed by a number of the gods imbuing her with special powers.

But she has to be sent away and raised in secret in Man's World to keep her out of the clutches of Mars, who has some fiendish plot in mind. She's raised in the US by the Amazon guardians who brought her there, her powers kept dormant by some kind of shielding magic. As far as she knows, she's Diana Prince, All-American girl, raised by her aunts who came to America from Greece, raised to be a proud, strong woman. When she grows up she joins the Air Force. It's at this point that somehow she discovers her true origin, gains her powers, and becomes the target of Mars and his minions.

A woman director capable of kick ass action would be a nice touch: Kathryn Bigelow would be a great pick (if she'd accept the job).

The problem with Wonder Woman generally was summed up a few years ago in a great article;

When George Perez revamped Wonder Woman in 1996, he
didn't set up Steve Trevor as Wonder Woman's love interest. In
fact, Steve Trevor got married and departed from the title
altogether. Since then, Diana's only love interests have been
the "it'll never happen" glances at Aquaman and Superman.
Diana's own book, Wonder Woman, overflows with female
characters. Thus, it's to be expected that the buzz starts. Is
there a reason she's not seriously dated anyone? How can she
not have some suitors? She's from an island of women, where
lesbian relations have become normalized. Is Wonder Woman…
a lesbian?
Er…not that there's anything wrong with that.

The Oddest Love Life In The World

Well, let's not pretend that Wonder Woman was having a healthy love
life when Steve Trevor was in the picture. Pre-Crisis, Steve Trevor and Lois Lane were two sides of the same coin: love interests who
appeared in decades of stories without ever having a "dinner and a movie, flowers and candy" relationship with the hero or much of anyone else. To maintain the status quo, there was no actual relationship…just a lovestruck normal human who wanted the superhero while ignoring the hero's secret identity as a romantic
option. In the last issue of Wonder Woman (before cancellation, revamp and the relaunching of a new Wonder Woman #1), Steve Trevor and Wonder Woman/Diana/Diana Prince were finally married and went on their honeymoon. This Crisis tie-in served as a bit of a consolation to the fans who would see Wonder Woman killed (wiped from history, actually) by the Anti-Monitor in Crisis on Infinite Earths #12. That's right, it takes a pre-written death to bring the relationship to fruition.
"Maybe she does die, but at least she and Steve finally get to have sex after 45+ years!" it seemed to say to all the fans. Never mind that the 1 marriage seems like quite a jump, based on the total lack of a real relationship between them up until that issue. Added to this bizarre relationship are Wonder Woman's other suitors. Mer-men. Bird-men. Amoeba-men. Space gorillas. Mythological monsters. Not one healthy, red-blooded male human in the bunch. This just kills me. The woman looks like a supermodel who eats good portions and exercises properly, and she dresses in an impossibly scanty bustier and hot pants…and she has no decent offers from nice men? Yes, I realize that she'd also have a ton of slobbering jerks approaching her, but there will be some winners among them…and she's capable of getting them. That's Darwin's theory at work, and it happens in our looks-oriented society all the time. A fantastic-bodied, friendly woman with a great personality is not going to be alone for long…except in the comic books, where we never saw guys on the street approaching Wonder Woman for dates.​

15 Years Without A Man: Is Wonder Woman Gay?​

 

[Captaindemotion]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

As much as I was looking forward to seeing a Joss Whedon written and directed "Wonder Woman" movie I think the delays and his inability to finish a draft obviously hurt the project and aside from the spec script that apparently the studio really liked (which I've read and is very much a period piece and would have been a decent but not epic Wonder Woman film) I haven't heard much news on the project so I'm eager to hear whatever it is that DC ENT has to announce. Lauren Montgomery's animated "Wonder Woman" was excellent and was pretty close to how I would see a live action feature being depicted. I had not heard that Joel Silver was an obstacle in getting Joss's film off the ground I have read that Joss himself was the problem in not finishing a suitable script.

I'm paraphrasing, but I read an interview with Whedon where he said that he had no idea what WB and Silver wanted in the movie because they had no idea what they wanted in it. As such, it made writing the darn thing pretty much impossible.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

The issue of Wonder Woman's love life is easily remedied by going the traditional route of including Steve Trevor as her love interest, making him a cool guy rather than the damp squib he's so often been portrayed as.

As for Charisma Carpenter, she was a fan favorite for the role and she openly expressed interest in playing WW, but she was never really in the running for the part. She was already too old for the part, for one thing, from the studio's point of view. Whedon had expressed interest in either Cobie Smulders or Morena Baccarin playing the part (with Smulders evidently his first choice).

 

[Christopher]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Baccarin would be great -- she even looks like Brian Bolland's Wonder Woman -- but she isn't quite statuesque enough. If you could cross Baccarin, Gina Torres, and Summer Glau into one woman, that might be the ideal Wonder Woman.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

The issue of Wonder Woman's love life is easily remedied by going the traditional route of including Steve Trevor as her love interest, making him a cool guy rather than the damp squib he's so often been portrayed as.

As for Charisma Carpenter, she was a fan favorite for the role and she openly expressed interest in playing WW, but she was never really in the running for the part. She was already too old for the part, for one thing, from the studio's point of view. Whedon had expressed interest in either Cobie Smulders or Morena Baccarin playing the part (with Smulders evidently his first choice).

Gotcha. Haha yeah i don't see 'Robin Scherbatsky' being her either.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Baccarin would be great -- she even looks like Brian Bolland's Wonder Woman -- but she isn't quite statuesque enough. If you could cross Baccarin, Gina Torres, and Summer Glau into one woman, that might be the ideal Wonder Woman.

Never mind ideal Wonder Woman, she'd probably be my ideal woman!!!!!!!

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

No quippy Amazons please.

Worked for XENA.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Never mind ideal Wonder Woman, she'd probably be my ideal woman!!!!!!!

Is there a difference?

 

[JacksonArcher]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

From Batman to Wonder Woman. Quite the conversational leap.

 

[dragunzng]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Baccarin would be great -- she even looks like Brian Bolland's Wonder Woman -- but she isn't quite statuesque enough. If you could cross Baccarin, Gina Torres, and Summer Glau into one woman, that might be the ideal Wonder Woman.

Yeah, I think Baccarin could be a good WW, I wasn't sure in her Firefly days, but seeing her as Dia... erm... what's her name again on V? Anyway, she's definitely got the strength to pull off WW.

I have to say I think Bridget Regan would make a great Wonder Woman. She's tall, strong and athletic. I don't know whether she has the acting chops though. Legend of the Seeker is a fun show, but it doesn't really allow for much in the way of acting.

I think Warner should look at how Marvel is approaching Thor, and see how well that works as it might give them something of a clue as to how to proceed.

As far as Aquaman goes? I always thought the guy who played Stanley Richmond on Jericho would make a great Aquaman.

 

[Greg Cox]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

As far as Aquaman goes? I always thought the guy who played Stanley Richmond on Jericho would make a great Aquaman.

To be honest, I'm hoping we get a SUB-MARINER movie first. I always prefered Namor . . . .

But I can see Baccarin as Wonder Woman. Or maybe Evangline Lilly from LOST.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

WW purists would tear their hair out, but a dramatically restructured origin would be a much easier sell. Something along these lines perhaps: A baby is born to the Queen of the Amazons on Paradise Island (with one of the gods as her father, perhaps Zeus himself, rather than the whole made from clay bit). The baby is blessed by a number of the gods imbuing her with special powers.

But she has to be sent away and raised in secret in Man's World to keep her out of the clutches of Mars, who has some fiendish plot in mind. She's raised in the US by the Amazon guardians who brought her there, her powers kept dormant by some kind of shielding magic. As far as she knows, she's Diana Prince, All-American girl, raised by her aunts who came to America from Greece, raised to be a proud, strong woman. When she grows up she joins the Air Force. It's at this point that somehow she discovers her true origin, gains her powers, and becomes the target of Mars and his minions.

A woman director capable of kick ass action would be a nice touch: Kathryn Bigelow would be a great pick (if she'd accept the job).

That's pretty good all the way around. You're mixing up pantheons though - Zeus is Greek, Mars - Roman. Not that this would be a bad thing with Wonder Woman where the classical references are generally all jumbled up anyway.

I've often thought though that it would be fun to start a Wonder Woman film in the ancient world - perhaps at Troy where the Amazons fought on the side of the Trojans. Open on an Amzon charge lead by mother and daughter, queen and princess of the Amazons (do the circumstances of Diana's birth really matter at all to a story?). Diana rallies the troops, fights Achilles or something fun like that, fade back to see the size of the battle and majestic Troy in the background, the battle rages into the night. The next morning you see the Amazons pack up camp and leaving after the Greeks appear to have abandoned camp - and you can see the celebrating Trojans carting the horse into the city walls in the background. The next day, the Amazons see smoke rising behind them and return to find the city razed and they are sickened by the treachery of the Greeks. Wandering the devastated city, Diana finds an exulting Greek warrior and fights him - it is an epic battle for this is Ares, god of war, glutting himself of Troy's defeat. But Athena and Artemis, horrified at the end of the war, bless the brave girl who continues to fight even after she realizes it is the god and she will surely die - bless her with extraordinary powers so that he cannot defeat her. Enraged, Ares sends a blast of godly power at her, the goddesses intervene (they're all just really pissed at each other over the Trojan War), and their combined power opens a rift in time and space sending Diana - into the future, where she lands in the middle of a city street.

With the Gods you can arrange any sort of communication you want back to her people, maybe the goddesses have set Themyscira up in a separate dimension because they feel bad that Diana has become displaced by their actions - so the Amazons have been in an isolated culture for 2000 years, but Diana hasn't.

The story is Diana's quest to get home again (though by the end she decides to stay, obviously, and you could even add the diplomat business in here if you wanted), while fighting off Ares who is pretty pissed this young woman held her own in battle with him (you can pull in the Perez stuff about Ares being a particularly powerful god due to modern wars). In the course of the story, she decides on her own to dedicate herself to fighting the forces of unjust war. This manages to ditch all the Amazonian - we have so much to teach Man's World business, and sets up what could be a fun, high adventure, fish out of water tale. It also simplifies the origin while keeping enough of it in place to be recognizable and to keep Diana as essentially the same character - she can certainly go on about how the Amazons had a philosophy of being peaceful warriors and so on and so forth. It also decouples the Amazons from being "greek", which they weren't, but let's you tap classical design as you want, but with twists, which would keep the look original.

Alas, fan-girl musings come inevitably to naught...

No quippy Amazons please.

Worked for XENA.

Exactly - been done and done well. In fact Xena was such a good Wonder Woman that it's hard for an actual Wonder Woman film to follow her.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

Yeah, I think Baccarin could be a good WW, I wasn't sure in her Firefly days, but seeing her as Dia... erm... what's her name again on V? Anyway, she's definitely got the strength to pull off WW.

Yep. I wasn't particularly impressed by Baccarin's acting on FF and Stargate, but she's really raised her game as Anna on V. In fact, she's the only cast member on that show I find engaging at all. And the short hair really looks great on her, though it means she'd need a wig for playing WW.

I have to say I think Bridget Regan would make a great Wonder Woman. She's tall, strong and athletic. I don't know whether she has the acting chops though. Legend of the Seeker is a fun show, but it doesn't really allow for much in the way of acting.

She doesn't impress me much as an actress and I don't think she quite has the look.

But I can see Baccarin as Wonder Woman. Or maybe Evangline Lilly from LOST.

Isn't Lilly rather, well, skinny? Not exactly an Amazonian build. And though she's beautiful, I just don't see her as the right type either.

I think finding the right Wonder Woman would probably require a process similar to the discovery of Christopher Reeve for Superman. The best candidate is probably someone who hasn't been discovered yet.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Re: Chris Nolan is prepping Batman 3 and will mentor a new Superman fi

You're mixing up pantheons though - Zeus is Greek, Mars - Roman. Not that this would be a bad thing with Wonder Woman where the classical references are generally all jumbled up anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking of the old comics where Ares was generally referred to as Mars. Make it Ares for the sake of pantheon consistency.