Yeah, Nimoy really embarrassed himself by appearing in the most successful and the most critically praised incarnation of Star Trek ever...
These Are The Voyages - Your Opinion, Please
- Thread starter thew40
- Start date
Yeah, but it's not like Frakes was forced into doing TATV. I'm sure he went into it with nothing but the best of intentions, so I do feel bad that TATV was probably his final on-screen appearance as Riker (heck, even Nemesis was a better sendoff).
And this is what I think it is really all about in the end - the "death" of Trip.
I watched all of Enterprise from launch to finale and enjoyed it all, so I can't be called a critic or hater.
I just don't get into the frame of mind that this episode is the most horrific thing since the holocaust because they "killed" a fictional character that doesn't exist in the first place! Really, I think that's why some people "hate" this episode so much - oh my, they killed Trip! You bastards!!
People die. And they die in fiction, too.
No. It's about the way the death was handled. Its about the fact that the show's most popular character got killed off like a redshirt and even got shat upon afterwards.
Its about the fact that the plot was ridiculous.
Its about the fact that it had no plot to begin with.
Its about the fact that it was not an "Enterprise" episode at all.
I can tell you why they didn't do TOS.
Bermaga had nothing to do with it. They were trying to relive their "glory days."
ETA:
Clearly, he didn't bother to read the script before he accepted the role. As a gifted director, surely he would have recognized the contrived plot, the lame concept, Trip's pointless demise and the utter lack of an emotional payoff.
A shame nobody can go in with some of Paramount's money and re-edit "TATV" to add a couple of scenes, make it a smidge longer and try to make Trip's idiotic death more palatable and emotionally impactful. But I get the feeling the studio sees the final episode as IT and under no circumstances will it let the creators go back and tweak it a little to make it somewhat less of a fiery train wreck coated in fertilizer.
number6
Vice Admiral
It's more likely that Frakes recognized the signature on the paycheck.I can tell you why they didn't do TOS.
Bermaga had nothing to do with it. They were trying to relive their "glory days."
ETA:
Clearly, he didn't bother to read the script before he accepted the role. As a gifted director, surely he would have recognized the contrived plot, the lame concept, Trip's pointless demise and the utter lack of an emotional payoff.
TATV wasn't bad. It just wasn't a good sendoff by any stretch.
I doubt it. I think Frakes thought, "Awww, I love Riker. It'd be fun to play him again and see Marina." I think the Enterprise actors got a bum deal though. I think many of them were incredibly gracious despite taking a back seat in an episode about Enterprise. I think the more experienced (and wiser) actors thought, "Oh, well. Endings suck." Need proof? Check out reactions to M*A*S*H, Quantum Leap, Seinfeld, Cheers, X-Files, etc. finales. All hated by someone somewhere. By the way, I never thought any of those episodes sucked.
He's been directing a lot of stuff, so ... I don't think so. I mean, I don't know a lot about him, but he doesn't seem like a guy who takes anything for a buck. Maybe it's just wishful thinking?
Some people hate the episode with a venom that can never be explained, addressed, discussed, etc. Seems a bit pointless. Might as well just let them continue to vent. I mean, I doubt they're going to change our opinion or vice versa. Ya know? I do wish though more time would pass between vents. Maybe that's wishful thinking, too.
It's been explained, addressed and discussed millions of times.
Some people's inability to comprehend certain explanations and discussions is only a result of their personal bias and spite.
Now now, let's stop squabbling. It's the holiday season! Can't we just all get along?
commie, Mach5, please refrain from directing your dissatisfaction toward your fellow members. Everyone has a right to express their opinion about the show, whether positive or negative, quiet or histrionic, without being judged by others.
In the spirit of the season, I declare a 24-hour moratorium on BBS "TATV" bashing...at least until New Year's Day I suppose. If it lasts THAT long.
*koff* -- See this week's av contest.In the spirit of the season, I declare a 24-hour moratorium on BBS "TATV" bashing...at least until New Year's Day I suppose. If it lasts THAT long.
I mentioned it before, but I'll say it again because some people have mentioned they don't see "real" reasons of hatred. For one, we technically did not get the characters we all knew and loved (or liked, or hated, etc...) but instead, we got their holographic versions. Another, is there does not seem to be a real sense of characterization in the people, there was no hints of further developments in the several years there was a gap between the settings, even Twilight managed to pull off character development in the missing years without showing much. The fact the characters from TNG sucked to, and now makes Riker look like he cannot make the right decision, because it is the right thing to do without going to the holodeck and watching two century old records of what happened to another crew (supposedly). After everything Trip and T'Pol for instance, had been through in Terra Prime and Demons, they seemed to be acting rather awkward around each other as if they barely spoke or even barely knew each other. Hoshi got a different hairstyle, that was it. She was still an Ensign, and the different hairstyle was more then Mayweather got. Then, there was no real reference to the recent years of a war or not a war, whatever what was going on, why the fed was forming, etc...
That's some things i can think of right off, I kind of suck at putting thoughts to words.
That's some things i can think of right off, I kind of suck at putting thoughts to words.
You covered it well. But no matter how much explanations we offer and flaws we point out, there will always be people claiming we explained nothing. Such is life.
The fact that its been nearly five years since TATV, and most fans still hold the same level of resentment towards it speaks for itself.
That episode hurt a lot of fans' feelings, that's a fact, and people who don't share the sentiment should at least show some respect and refrain from poking.
Crimony, Mach5, what did I ask you to do just a paltry few hours ago? Did you miss this post? Go back and read it. Then read it again. Then STOP taking potshots at people you don't agree with. I am not kidding.
Shock me. Thrill me. Take your own advice and show some respect and refrain from poking.
I'll tell you why I hate it. It was such a huge disappointment. This was The Very Last Episode with the crew of the Enterprise NX-01. And what did we get? 42 minutes that had to be shared with a couple of TNG actors who had had their TV finale and then went on to do TNG films.
I wanted the show to get a send-off as memorable -- in a good way -- as "All Good Things" and "What You Leave Behind." My God, even Voyager's finale was better (at least things happened to the crew in the intervening years before Adm. Janeway decided to end their journey sooner rather than later).
I wanted the show to get a send-off as memorable -- in a good way -- as "All Good Things" and "What You Leave Behind." My God, even Voyager's finale was better (at least things happened to the crew in the intervening years before Adm. Janeway decided to end their journey sooner rather than later).
Actually Riker looks EVEN WORSE in that there is a scene in The Pegasus where Picard corners him and asks him point blank what the hell is really going on with the Pegasus situation; and Riker makes a big point of saying he can't tell him because he's under oders of a higher ranking officer then Picard...
Yet, it These Are the Voyages he very casually and almost offhandidly spills the whole story Pressmen ORDERED him to keep quiet about to Counselor Deanna Troi.
Any revisit to an older TREK franchise episode that can't get Marina Sirtis's STUPID WIG CORRECT is destined for Epic Faildom from the get-go.
How hard was it to fashion one that closely resembled or even matched her 'do in "The Pegasus"? It was only 11-1/2 years between episodes. We're not talking about rebuilding the Lighthouse of Pharos from scratch here.
How hard was it to fashion one that closely resembled or even matched her 'do in "The Pegasus"? It was only 11-1/2 years between episodes. We're not talking about rebuilding the Lighthouse of Pharos from scratch here.Similar threads
