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Do we hate Harry Potter and Twilight?

It's basic storytelling. You have to establish the villain as a threat early on. If Batman just beats her the first time they meet then she's not much of a threat.

The Joker didn't have a single physical altercation with Batman. Ra's al Ghul did, but only as Ducard, while training the guy (subsequent to which Bale takes a few levels in badass, as the saying goes). Two-Face and Scarecrow didn't get much chance to mess him up either. They set them up as credible threats by doing things other than just screwing over Batman - Joker's breathless and sadistically murderous bank robbery set the tone for the character in a way that doing a number on Wayne never would have.

Granted, aside from maybe Ra's they were never depicted as people who could go physically toe to toe with the Bats, while Catwoman is. Even still, the sort of storytelling where two superheroes duke it out and they're both alive at the end of the fight, letting the defeated one slink away, is something that the Nolan films have mostly eschewed. One could easily show Catwoman's strength by having her thwack someone else - whoever the other major villain is in the film, say, as these pictures tend to have more than one. Or a whole group of goons. Et cetera.

Power Girl is Supergirl's counterpart from an alternate universe.

Yeah, I tried reading up on the character on Wikipedia to make sense of her, and every paragraph just made my eyes glaze over. Alright, she's the Earth Two future past Supergirl when she isn't the Atlantean princess or yadda yadda gumdrops. I'll wait for the movie.

Hm. That's meant to be a punchline, but honestly, if it weren't for Hollywood's current reluctance to do female hero films I'd expect a movie with all those comic book properties getting churned out. They're even doing a comic book take on Thor, which is just so mind-boggingly weird to me. Can't I get a film about the mythic hero instead, please? But whatever, that'll be a weird sell outside of America, presumably.

Remember Starbuck not being killed in that boxing match with Apollo ?
Battlestar Galactica also had scenes during Gaeta's insurrection of Adama and Tigh hefting guns and kicking ass. If you're a main character and you're badass, logic frequently need not apply.
 
The Joker didn't have a single physical altercation with Batman. Ra's al Ghul did, but only as Ducard, while training the guy (subsequent to which Bale takes a few levels in badass, as the saying goes). Two-Face and Scarecrow didn't get much chance to mess him up either. They set them up as credible threats by doing things other than just screwing over Batman - Joker's breathless and sadistically murderous bank robbery set the tone for the character in a way that doing a number on Wayne never would have.

Granted, aside from maybe Ra's they were never depicted as people who could go physically toe to toe with the Bats, while Catwoman is. Even still, the sort of storytelling where two superheroes duke it out and they're both alive at the end of the fight, letting the defeated one slink away, is something that the Nolan films have mostly eschewed. One could easily show Catwoman's strength by having her thwack someone else - whoever the other major villain is in the film, say, as these pictures tend to have more than one. Or a whole group of goons. Et cetera.

Again, we'd have a problem. No amount of skill changes the fact that an average woman's arm doesn't have the strength behind it to actually hurt a much larger male opponent that much.

Two-Face, The Joker and Scarecrow have rarely if ever been presented as a physical threat to Batman. Exactly how Catwoman would be presented in such a film is an interesting question given her anti-heroine status.

Yeah, I tried reading up on the character on Wikipedia to make sense of her, and every paragraph just made my eyes glaze over. Alright, she's the Earth Two future past Supergirl when she isn't the Atlantean princess or yadda yadda gumdrops. I'll wait for the movie.

Hm. That's meant to be a punchline, but honestly, if it weren't for Hollywood's current reluctance to do female hero films I'd expect a movie with all those comic book properties getting churned out. They're even doing a comic book take on Thor, which is just so mind-boggingly weird to me. Can't I get a film about the mythic hero instead, please? But whatever, that'll be a weird sell outside of America, presumably.

:lol: You've discovered the comedic nature of Power Girl's background. It's been retconned so many times I don't think anyone has it entirely straight anymore. The long and short of it is that I don't have any problem watching her smack a similarly empowered male villain around with a car. Realism is removed from the question when the hero is an alien from an alternate universe.

Battlestar Galactica also had scenes during Gaeta's insurrection of Adama and Tigh hefting guns and kicking ass. If you're a main character and you're badass, logic frequently need not apply.

Yeah, sure - that's dumb too, no dispute there. Generally, I praise the fact that gender is a non-issue in Galactica.

It's just that in a fair fight, it would probably take the first punch from someone with arms like Jamie Bamber's to cave your average woman's skull in, in fact most men wouldn't stand up to that for very long. It makes the suspension of disbelief a tad difficult.
 
So if this Percy Jackson stuff takes off (I'm guessing the film(s) would give the books more exposure, etc.), where will it fit in all of this?
 
I have no interest in Harry Potter but by all accounts it's at least well written. Twilight is literal trash that only encourages disgusting, idiotic behaviour in all of it's vacuous fans.

Fuck Twilight and fuck anybody dumb enough to un-ironically like Twilight.
 
I haven't read the Potter or Twilight books.

I enjoy the Potter movies and I have no opinion on the Twilight movies since I haven't seen them nor am I really curious to see them.

And that's where I stand on the subject.
 
And, as has been previously pointed out, if we had "Twilight Dads" they'd all be in jail on child pornography charges.
Come on. Let's not pretend there isn't an entire industry built on sexualizing young girls. Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and the Olsen Twins practically built their careers on it.

And if you don't think male authors get away with all kinds of deviant writing you're probably not reading much. Stephen King got himself anointed the master of horror doing it.

And how repulsed and disgusted does society react to sexualizing young girls? If there were crowds of middle-aged men lining up to see a movie with scantly clad barely-legal or underaged girls in people would freak out and cry about the fall of civilization.
Oh man, you live a sheltered life. :lol:

Hundreds of millions of dollars are made playing on women's youth from Hollywood to Porn Valley. And it all happens on a scale that makes Twilight look positively chump change.

For example, Lindsay Lohan was only 17 when she did this skit on SNL. Compare that to Robert Pattinson who's a 23-year old guy playing a 17-year old (or at least an old geezer in one's body).
 
Come on. Let's not pretend there isn't an entire industry built on sexualizing young girls. Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and the Olsen Twins practically built their careers on it.

And if you don't think male authors get away with all kinds of deviant writing you're probably not reading much. Stephen King got himself anointed the master of horror doing it.

And how repulsed and disgusted does society react to sexualizing young girls? If there were crowds of middle-aged men lining up to see a movie with scantly clad barely-legal or underaged girls in people would freak out and cry about the fall of civilization.
Oh man, you live a sheltered life. :lol:

Hundreds of millions of dollars are made playing on women's youth from Hollywood to Porn Valley. And it all happens on a scale that makes Twilight look positively chump change.

For example, Lindsay Lohan was only 17 when she did this skit on SNL. Compare that to Robert Pattinson who's a 23-year old guy playing a 17-year old (or at least an old geezer in one's body).

Yeah. The reverse does happen. Remember the underage Hayden Pannetierre worship a few years ago? Guys aren't really any better than the insane Rob Pattinson fans.
 
And how repulsed and disgusted does society react to sexualizing young girls? If there were crowds of middle-aged men lining up to see a movie with scantly clad barely-legal or underaged girls in people would freak out and cry about the fall of civilization.
Oh man, you live a sheltered life. :lol:

Hundreds of millions of dollars are made playing on women's youth from Hollywood to Porn Valley. And it all happens on a scale that makes Twilight look positively chump change.

For example, Lindsay Lohan was only 17 when she did this skit on SNL. Compare that to Robert Pattinson who's a 23-year old guy playing a 17-year old (or at least an old geezer in one's body).

Yeah. The reverse does happen. Remember the underage Hayden Pannetierre worship a few years ago? Guys aren't really any better than the insane Rob Pattinson fans.

Yes, yes, I'm aware of all of this. My point was that no one bats an eye at the "barely legal" boys in these movies being lusted after by middle-aged women (IIRC, some of the shirtless "werewolf" boys are underaged, I know the guy who plays Jacob Black is) but when men lust after scantly cald teenage girls people cry about the end of civilization.
 
Yes, yes, I'm aware of all of this. My point was that no one bats an eye at the "barely legal" boys in these movies being lusted after by middle-aged women (IIRC, some of the shirtless "werewolf" boys are underaged, I know the guy who plays Jacob Black is) but when men lust after scantly cald teenage girls people cry about the end of civilization.
That's it? That's your 'point'? :lol: That society sometimes has double standards? Thanks for the revelation. I'm glad that's cleared up. It's not like we'd have ever known otherwise. Oh and welcome to Planet Earth, it can occasionally be ass-backwards.

Yeah. The reverse does happen. Remember the underage Hayden Pannetierre worship a few years ago? Guys aren't really any better than the insane Rob Pattinson fans.
And to connect it back to the topic at hand, I recall no shortage of Emma Watson perving on this very site (put her name in Google images at your own risk). I believe there was a "countdown 'til she's 18" thread on here somewhere. And (to rebut DrummerBoy's so-called point) I don't recall a great deal of backlash to it.

Lusting after near-adult juveniles (regardless of sex) has been around since the hunter-gatherer days. So long as it's not acted upon (and how could it be?), then it's only inconsequential fantasizing and maybe a little bit creepy.

Such is life, I'm afraid. :shrug:
 
I haven't read any of the books.

I watched Twilight for the first time today.

Man, they just drew a target on the heart of every 14 year old girl and let the arrows fly, didn't they?

:lol:


The Harry Potter films are awesome.

:techman:
 
Looks like I'm taking my niece to see New Moon today.

If that's the same niece you've been talking about on Twitter, I have to say, you are one dedicated uncle!
She's not allowed out yet, they told her 2 weeks strict rest and then build up slowly after that. It's her big sister I'll be taking, I'll likely end up taking the younger niece to see something else after she recovers if there's anything on she wants to see at the time.
 
Frankly, Harry Potter is excellent and they are fun, enjoyable and simple reads that draw you into creative storytelling and character development. To compare Harry Potter to the teenage masturbation fodder that is Twilight is nothing short of insulting!
And yet, Harry Potter and Twilight are very often compared with each other just like Star Trek and Star Wars used to be. Twilight is frequently called the "new Harry Potter", the "next Harry Potter" or the "spiritual successor to Harry Potter". That's the reason for my original post. I know that many of the reasons I mentioned for hating both Harry Potter and Twilight are more about the fans than the actual series, but I believe that the fans are a major part of the image of any series that I just can't ignore. If a novel series or a film series has a large infestation of shippers, it's because the content of the series supports such an infestation.
 
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