That's one bizarre rule.
Yeah, he's enforcing letter of the law and not spirit of it but he's always had a hatred for TNZ.
No doubt we could find similar polls elsewhere, though, so your point stands.
State-run health care
- Thread starter Candlelight
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Yeah, he's enforcing letter of the law and not spirit of it but he's always had a hatred for TNZ.
No doubt we could find similar polls elsewhere, though, so your point stands.
The opponents of UHC like to use the socialized aspect as the convenient boogeyman to shut down all discussion and debate. They don't actually know what socialism or socialized medicine is, but for them that's irrelevant--it's enough that they think anything socialized is essentially the same as communism and in extent statist and dictatorial.
They've heard the stories of statist governments from abroad and live in fear of that while being able to turn a blind eye to things their own government has done to promote its self-interests.
I don't really want to call such people stupid. Rather I see them as sadly ignorant. They can't even see forces at work that have knowingly shaped their opinions and exploited them for their own ends within their own country. Yet they get irate because a decent and fair minded man believes everyone in his country should have fair access to medical care without being bankrupt in the process.
Because in the end, sooner or later, most likely everyone will need medical care one day.
I was born with a heart condition commonly known as hole in the heart (I can't recall the medical terminology). At the age of seven (1966) and ten (1969) I had heart surgery at the Hospital For Sick Children in Toronto, Ontario. The problem was fully corrected and today no one can tell I've ever been short of breath and lacking in physical strength unless I tell them.
My parents had four children: an older brother, myself, and two younger sisters. My father was the only regular breadwinner while my mother helped out by taking care of infants for the Children's Aid and later watching other kids after school until their parents picked them up. All this on top of raising her own four kids. My parents could never have afforded my medical care if they'd had to pay for it out of pocket.
No one told them which doctor they had to see. All choices were theirs. And if they hadn't gotten me the treatment I needed then I'd likely be wheelchair bound now if I had even survived into my twenties.
Canada is certainly more socialized than the U.S. Our health care problems don't stem from lack of access, but perhaps from too easy access. Like anything that seems free there can be a tendency towards abuse, such as running to the doctor or the emergency for the some of the most trifling things as a sniffle.
Another good thing about some socialized thinking in Canada is that while we had our own economic troubles this past year or so our government also didn't allow some of the shadier shenanigans to go on that were allowed in the U.S. I suspect we got our economic sniffles mostly from the bad cold the U.S. caught last year.
They've heard the stories of statist governments from abroad and live in fear of that while being able to turn a blind eye to things their own government has done to promote its self-interests.
I don't really want to call such people stupid. Rather I see them as sadly ignorant. They can't even see forces at work that have knowingly shaped their opinions and exploited them for their own ends within their own country. Yet they get irate because a decent and fair minded man believes everyone in his country should have fair access to medical care without being bankrupt in the process.
Because in the end, sooner or later, most likely everyone will need medical care one day.
I was born with a heart condition commonly known as hole in the heart (I can't recall the medical terminology). At the age of seven (1966) and ten (1969) I had heart surgery at the Hospital For Sick Children in Toronto, Ontario. The problem was fully corrected and today no one can tell I've ever been short of breath and lacking in physical strength unless I tell them.
My parents had four children: an older brother, myself, and two younger sisters. My father was the only regular breadwinner while my mother helped out by taking care of infants for the Children's Aid and later watching other kids after school until their parents picked them up. All this on top of raising her own four kids. My parents could never have afforded my medical care if they'd had to pay for it out of pocket.
No one told them which doctor they had to see. All choices were theirs. And if they hadn't gotten me the treatment I needed then I'd likely be wheelchair bound now if I had even survived into my twenties.
Canada is certainly more socialized than the U.S. Our health care problems don't stem from lack of access, but perhaps from too easy access. Like anything that seems free there can be a tendency towards abuse, such as running to the doctor or the emergency for the some of the most trifling things as a sniffle.
Another good thing about some socialized thinking in Canada is that while we had our own economic troubles this past year or so our government also didn't allow some of the shadier shenanigans to go on that were allowed in the U.S. I suspect we got our economic sniffles mostly from the bad cold the U.S. caught last year.
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The lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.
source
Contrary to right wing claims, not many Canadians travel to the US for health care.
source
Half of all bankruptcies in the US are wholly or partly due to medical bills.
source
69% of all home forclosures are wholly or partly due to medical bills.
source
I can attest, from firsthand experience, that emergency care is not enough. It's not cheap, either.
Marian
source
Contrary to right wing claims, not many Canadians travel to the US for health care.
source
Half of all bankruptcies in the US are wholly or partly due to medical bills.
source
69% of all home forclosures are wholly or partly due to medical bills.
source
I can attest, from firsthand experience, that emergency care is not enough. It's not cheap, either.
Marian
I believe, ma'am, that the term is 'pwned!'
^^ As we can see the propaganda has been going on for a long time. 
Having socialized aspects in parts of your society and government doesn't take away any of those freedoms. But it just might limit the freedom of unscrupulous forces from shafting you quite so often and in so many ways.
Having socialized aspects in parts of your society and government doesn't take away any of those freedoms. But it just might limit the freedom of unscrupulous forces from shafting you quite so often and in so many ways.
Okay, SPOCKED has already asked everybody to dial back the bluster. Misc discussion Threads are for the exchange of opinions and ideas, not insulting or name-calling or otherwise attacking Posters.
Exhibit A, B and C:
Thank you.
Exhibit A, B and C:
Flaming and Trolling. Not conducive to a good discussion. Stating points and counterpoints is conducive to a good discussion. Please remember: Address the Post, not the Poster.
Thank you.
Why do people balk at paying taxes for health care, but not the out of pocket/paycheck premiums they're paying now? Who cares whether the money goes to a business or a government, especially when you're paying less of it for better care?
Why do people claim to worry about hypothetical government bureaucrats or rationing, but don't care that insurance companies already impose real limits?
Why do conservatives keep making up horror stories about how awful universal health care would be, when we can look at any of 30+ different countries and see how it actually is?
Marian
Why do people claim to worry about hypothetical government bureaucrats or rationing, but don't care that insurance companies already impose real limits?
Why do conservatives keep making up horror stories about how awful universal health care would be, when we can look at any of 30+ different countries and see how it actually is?
Marian
It's not that we balk at paying taxes, as such, just paying *too much* in tax.
And yet our taxes are low compared to a previous wartime economy during a depression.
They're also lower than when Reagan was president.
He was a filthy commie!
For those of you who think that being uninsured can't kill you: http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/november/over_2200_veterans_.php
It really disgusts me, the lies people will tell to shoot down political initiatives they disagree with.
Are you serious? A propaganda cartoon from 1948? And I would appreciate it if you didn't just snip off a half-sentence of what I wrote.
Again, what I was saying was that if that's what you think is "socialism", then Sweden or any country in Western Europe is not it! [not to mention, that this cartoon just proves my point, because it also doesn't offer any definition of "socialism" beyond "taking away freedoms" - in fact, could any definition of socialism be more ambigious than the way it's presented in this cartoon, not even calling it by its name?!]
And I have one question to all the people who think we're killing off all our elderly here in Commieland: How is it possible that our life expectency is higher than the USA's?
TheLonelySquire
Vice Admiral
Not even close. It's really a "government can't run any program without bankrupting it, so why would we let them manage our health care?" mindset.
No one that I know doesn't want reform so that EVERY U.S. citizen who wants health care can afford it.
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