State-run health care

[Robert Maxwell]

There's a huge "if you can't afford health care, you should die quickly and not burden the rest of us" mentality in this country. Well, a bit less than half of Americans seem to feel that way, at least.

Not even close. It's really a "government can't run any program without bankrupting it, so why would we let them manage our health care?" mindset.

No one that I know doesn't want reform so that EVERY U.S. citizen who wants health care can afford it.

Well, that's funny, considering the people who have Medicare, Medicaid, and VA medical coverage rate it higher than the private options.

In any case, "manag[ing] our health care" is not the same as "paying for our health care." That the two are conflated in this debate is incredibly dishonest. It has not been seriously proposed in the US that we get rid of private doctors and hospitals, force people to go to specific doctors, tell them what treatments they can and can't have, or decide that some people aren't worth covering at all--rather, those are things private insurance is notorious for.

 

[Roger Wilco]

No one that I know doesn't want reform so that EVERY U.S. citizen who wants health care can afford it.

There is no way to achieve that without some sort of governmental health care.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.

Because the government should not be supporting people. They should make sure it's a level playing field so that each person can be the best that they can be. As an able-bodied adult, I'd feel like less of a man if the government had to support me. But that's just me.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

No one that I know doesn't want reform so that EVERY U.S. citizen who wants health care can afford it.

There is no way to achieve that without some sort of governmental health care.

That's not true. You can have government oversight without actually having them RUN a health care program. Portability, tort reform, electronic records, etc...would all help to this end.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.

Because the government should not be supporting people. They should make sure it's a level playing field so that each person can be the best that they can be. As an able-bodied adult, I'd feel like less of a man if the government had to support me. But that's just me.

The government "supports" everyone to one degree or another. You don't have to build your own roads or schools, do you? You rely on police and fire protection, don't you?

What better way to keep all citizens able-bodied and on a "level playing field" than by ensuring they can all receive the medical care they need?

 

[Roger Wilco]

No one that I know doesn't want reform so that EVERY U.S. citizen who wants health care can afford it.

There is no way to achieve that without some sort of governmental health care.

That's not true. You can have government oversight without actually having them RUN a health care program. Portability, tort reform, electronic records, etc...would all help to this end.

Oversight isn't enough.

The main problem is, that having sick people as clients, and even more so poor people, is contrary to the goals of for-profit health insurance companies.

Of course the government could force them to insure people anyway, even though they can't pay nearly what the cost the insurance, but isn't that much more intrusive and anti-capitalist than anything offered by Democrats in this debate?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

i just don't get why Americans automatically think state-supported healthcare = socialist = Communist.

seriously, America, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOCALISM?!

everyone equally being supported by the government should be something you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers should be getting behind.

Because the government should not be supporting people. They should make sure it's a level playing field so that each person can be the best that they can be. As an able-bodied adult, I'd feel like less of a man if the government had to support me. But that's just me.

The government "supports" everyone to one degree or another. You don't have to build your own roads or schools, do you? You rely on police and fire protection, don't you?

What better way to keep all citizens able-bodied and on a "level playing field" than by ensuring they can all receive the medical care they need?

Because as with Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, the U.S. Postal Service, etc... government has shown it cannot financially fun these operations effectively. They ran out of $ for cash for clunkers inside of a month when it was supposed to last until November. We should trust them with our health care? I don't think so.....

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Because the government should not be supporting people. They should make sure it's a level playing field so that each person can be the best that they can be. As an able-bodied adult, I'd feel like less of a man if the government had to support me. But that's just me.

The government "supports" everyone to one degree or another. You don't have to build your own roads or schools, do you? You rely on police and fire protection, don't you?

What better way to keep all citizens able-bodied and on a "level playing field" than by ensuring they can all receive the medical care they need?

Because as with Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, the U.S. Postal Service, etc... government has shown it cannot financially fun these operations effectively. They ran out of $ for cash for clunkers inside of a month when it was supposed to last until November. We should trust them with our health care? I don't think so.....

Comparing the CARS program to Medicare and Social Security is an utter red herring. CARS had a set amount of one-time funding. The others are funded on a constant basis. I'm sure you can do better than that.

You trust the government to arm a military and kill bad guys, but not to pay for your medical care? You're kiddin' me, right?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

There is no way to achieve that without some sort of governmental health care.

That's not true. You can have government oversight without actually having them RUN a health care program. Portability, tort reform, electronic records, etc...would all help to this end.

Oversight isn't enough.

The main problem is, that having sick people as clients, and even more so poor people, is contrary to the goals of for-profit health insurance companies.

Of course the government could force them to insure people anyway, even though they can't pay nearly what the cost the insurance, but isn't that much more intrusive and anti-capitalist than anything offered by Democrats in this debate?

No, it's not more intrusive. Driving companies out of business, who then would have to lay off thousands of employees is much more anti-capitalist, in my opinion.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Now wait just a Right Field Bleachers minute here...we're not actually talking about having the government *run* the health care system. I know that...now. They are simply offering another plan. You don't have to take it if you don't want to. I don't see the downside to that, myself. I have a perfectly good plan I get from my employer, I wouldn't have to give that up.

That being said, I am immensely glad about having the "preexisting conditions" bit, flushed right down the crapper where it belongs. Also, as much as I hate cheesy neo-revolutionary slogans like "big pharma", I agree they need to be taken down a peg.

 

[Roger Wilco]

No, it's not more intrusive. Driving companies out of business, who then would have to lay off thousands of employees is much more anti-capitalist, in my opinion.

Your proposal basically includes telling private companies who they should contract with and for what price - how is that not anti-capitalist?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

The government "supports" everyone to one degree or another. You don't have to build your own roads or schools, do you? You rely on police and fire protection, don't you?

What better way to keep all citizens able-bodied and on a "level playing field" than by ensuring they can all receive the medical care they need?

Because as with Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, the U.S. Postal Service, etc... government has shown it cannot financially fun these operations effectively. They ran out of $ for cash for clunkers inside of a month when it was supposed to last until November. We should trust them with our health care? I don't think so.....

Comparing the CARS program to Medicare and Social Security is an utter red herring. CARS had a set amount of one-time funding. The others are funded on a constant basis. I'm sure you can do better than that.

You trust the government to arm a military and kill bad guys, but not to pay for your medical care? You're kiddin' me, right?

I'm not trusting the government to weed Islamo-terrorists out of our military, so I would have to answer that as a no at this point.

And the CFC program is just an example of something small they can't handle, never mind 1/8th of our economy.

 

[cultcross]

Surely if the cash for CFC was used up in a month, that kind of implies the scheme worked, in fact evidently better than expected? It wasn't a cost cutting exercise, the point of the scheme was to spend that money.

 

[QuasarVM]

Because as with Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, the U.S. Postal Service, etc... government has shown it cannot financially fun these operations effectively. They ran out of $ for cash for clunkers inside of a month when it was supposed to last until November. We should trust them with our health care? I don't think so.....

Comparing the CARS program to Medicare and Social Security is an utter red herring. CARS had a set amount of one-time funding. The others are funded on a constant basis. I'm sure you can do better than that.

You trust the government to arm a military and kill bad guys, but not to pay for your medical care? You're kiddin' me, right?

I'm not trusting the government to weed Islamo-terrorists out of our military, so I would have to answer that as a no at this point.

No, for that they'd have to actually IDENTIFY the enemy and they are too hamstrung with liberal touchy-feely "diversity" nonsense to even begin to name the enemy. Hell, they nearly choked on their tongues just saying the guys name on TV or identifying his religion. They damned sure didn't even want to do that.

It's only because they were backed into a corner that they did that.

Anyway...back to the Socialism Kool-Aid Breakfast Club...

The blind faith in Socialism here is disturbing beyond belief.

You'd sell your own mothers if the government would ask you to.

 

[RoJoHen]

The blind faith in Socialism here is disturbing beyond belief.

You'd sell your own mothers if the government would ask you to.

Dude, you are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[cultcross]

No, for that they'd have to actually IDENTIFY the enemy and they are too hamstrung with liberal touchy-feely "diversity" nonsense to even begin to name the enemy. Hell, they nearly choked on their tongues just saying the guys name on TV or identifying his religion. They damned sure didn't even want to do that.

It's only because they were backed into a corner that they did that.

Wrong, second hand claims that he said 'allah ackbar' during the shootings emerged on the day of the event on ABC, among others, and the general in charge said on major news networks there were 'unconfirmed reports' of this. The reason it doesn't play into your little fantasy of an al-Qaeda operative deep in the ranks with bombs strapped to his chest is because the facts don't point to it.

Anyway...back to the Socialism Kool-Aid Breakfast Club...

The blind faith in Socialism here is disturbing beyond belief.

You'd sell your own mothers if the government would ask you to.

And you'd let yours burn rather than use the government provided fire service. Or you should, if you're sticking by your principles.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

No, for that they'd have to actually IDENTIFY the enemy and they are too hamstrung with liberal touchy-feely "diversity" nonsense to even begin to name the enemy. Hell, they nearly choked on their tongues just saying the guys name on TV or identifying his religion. They damned sure didn't even want to do that.

It's only because they were backed into a corner that they did that.

Wrong, second hand claims that he said 'allah ackbar' during the shootings emerged on the day of the event on ABC, among others, and the general in charge said on major news networks there were 'unconfirmed reports' of this. The reason it doesn't play into your little fantasy of an al-Qaeda operative deep in the ranks with bombs strapped to his chest is because the facts don't point to it.

Anyway...back to the Socialism Kool-Aid Breakfast Club...

The blind faith in Socialism here is disturbing beyond belief.

You'd sell your own mothers if the government would ask you to.

And you'd let yours burn rather than use the government provided fire service. Or you should, if you're sticking by your principles.

If the government would stay out of my business I'd take my chances with the fire. It's THEIR house which is burning, not mine.

 

[thumbtack]

you 'all men are equal' freedom lovers

That's been gone since the eighties. As for the nimrods, they oppose cheap health care because Obama would get the credit for it being cheap, not because they hold millions of shares in Merck or fear the end of private insurance.

 

[Rii]

As an able-bodied adult, I'd feel like less of a man if the government had to support me. But that's just me.

As an able-bodied adult, if I had something to say I'd have the balls to say it. But that's just me.

 

[SPOCKED]

The blind faith in Socialism here is disturbing beyond belief.

You'd sell your own mothers if the government would ask you to.

Dude, you are absolutely ridiculous.

Quasar, RoJo meant to say that he finds your above opinion to be questionable.