Random Thought: Was Janeway Killed Because She was So Polarizing?

[Steve Roby]

^^ But in so many words that's saying Janeway fans are owed Janeway books. Going back to sales and the Locus numbers, don't books without Janeway in them sell better than books with her?

I'm not sure you can really draw that specific a conclusion from the Locus lists.

Moving right along...

The TNG and DS9 book lines have changes to the status quo just as significant as those in the Voyager book lines. I don't remember any TNG or DS9 fans ever showing up here to proclaim that their fave show had been ruined by Pocket and that henceforth they would no longer spend any money on Pocket's Star Trek books.

 

[Thestral]

^^ But in so many words that's saying Janeway fans are owed Janeway books. Going back to sales and the Locus numbers, don't books without Janeway in them sell better than books with her?

I'm not sure you can really draw that specific a conclusion from the Locus lists.

Moving right along...

The TNG and DS9 book lines have changes to the status quo just as significant as those in the Voyager book lines. I don't remember any TNG or DS9 fans ever showing up here to proclaim that their fave show had been ruined by Pocket and that henceforth they would no longer spend any money on Pocket's Star Trek books.

Exactly. Ben Sisko was every bit as critical to DS9 as Kathy J. was for Voyager... and yet the DS9:R has been a great success despite him having a non-existent or (more recently) cameo role.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Not only is this untrue, it's unfair. Most of us buy the novels AND download the fanfic. Many of us are Star Trek fans from the earliest days of the series.

Excuse me, I very carefully constructed my comment to make sure is was true:

"As several of them have told us on numerous occasions, they never read the novels in the first place, preferring to download free fanfic instead."

I didn't say you, and I didn't say all. I said "several", and during the Great Janeway Debate here - and on many other web sites - and, in fact, in discussions about pro vs fanfic ST newsletters over the decades, it is definitely true that some ST fans deliberately shun official tie-in novels in favour of reading and writing ST fanfic. I know several of them personally.

 

[Thrawn]

Kestrel - I think, in a weird way, a large part of it might've been that Kira was a much more beloved character than Chakotay. Something like "Kira's in command of the station...Cool! Chakotay's in command of Voyager? Who cares?" was MY reaction, before reading the books.

But Beyer's take on Chakotay's story arc has nullified that complaint completely, and I'm so abundantly thrilled by his character development that I think it puts the VOY-R in every bit as interesting a place as the DS9-R started.

And just in general, DS9 was always more of an ensemble piece. I wonder if people just have a hard time imagining Voyager being good without Janeway. It does seem like most people that are whining so much haven't actually read the books. Which, you know, is fine if you know that you won't like them, but I wonder how many people would find the story worthwhile if they actually took the time to read it.

(This of course does not include Lynx, who has made it absolutely clear he's only interested in any character's development or growth as long as it changes nothing about them at all.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

There are plenty of non-Janeway options already but now there's nothing left for Janeway fans.

Are you absolutely positive there'll never be another "Voyager" novel, or short story anthology, set within the seven years of the TV series?

Are you absolutely positive there'll never be another "Q Continuum" novel, or short story anthology, featuring Janeway's adventures with Suzie Q and family?

 

[Thrawn]

^ Such as for example Places Of Exile, which in my opinion contains several of Janeway's finest moments in Treklit, which was published after Before Dishonor, or the first half of Full Circle, which again contains several of Janeway's finest moments in Treklit.

I think we've gotten more of Janeway since Janeway's death, proportionally, than we've gotten of Data since his.

 

[Lynx]

Something important is still missing.

Kes was never important. She could have been but her potential was never realized. TPTB didn't seem to know what to do with her. Hence her break-up with Neelix. Hence her power boost. Hence her crazy-space-lady exit. And ultimately her replacement by Seven of Nine.

As a member of the crew and cast, Kes was as important as characters like LaForge, the both Dax, Bashir, Troi, Sato, Uhura, Nog, Wes Crusher and Jake Sisko, not to mention a second-hand character like Vorik (who dissapeared when Big Mama left the "government" but are still kept by the current authors of the book for some strange reason).

The "power-boost" was a silly attempt to get rid of the character as soon as possible, therefore it doesn't count.

The "crazy space-lady exit" was a deliberately insult to her fans and totally out of character for Kes, therefore it doesn't count.

Replacing her with Seven was totally unnecessary.

But in so many words that's saying Janeway fans are owed Janeway books. Going back to sales and the Locus numbers, don't books without Janeway in them sell better than books with her? It's all about product and profitability.

Profit, profit, profit! Is that all which counts in this crazy world. No surprise that we have starvation, wars, enviromental destruction and all that when all is about profit.

It also confirms my theory that the only thing those in charge of "official Star Trek" cares about is money. They don't care about Star Trek, it's character, it's fans and the premise of the whole phenomenon, it's all about money and their own wallets.

 

[Lynx]

9 out of 12, or 75%, not so bad now, eh?

It really doesn't matter how many original characters are left if your favourite one is missing.

Count me as another avid reader of Trek books that will not not be buying the later ones. What I don't understand is if Voyager isn't your thing and you don't like Janeway then there are TOS, TNG, DS9, NF, TTN, etc books to choose from. Why wreck the Voyager stuff for folks that liked Janeway? There are plenty of non-Janeway options already but now there's nothing left for Janeway fans. Frankly it sucks and it's making me cry cus now I'm trying to kick the Trek book habbit.

Exactly my opinion too.

 

[captcalhoun]

i just wish everyone who doesn't like the books and won't read them would leave and let us folks who do like them and do read them discuss them in peace.

 

[Turtletrekker]

i just wish everyone who doesn't like the books and won't read them would leave and let us folks who do like them and do read them discuss them in peace.

QFT. It's really getting old...

 

[Kataaran]

Are you absolutely positive there'll never be another "Voyager" novel, or short story anthology, set within the seven years of the TV series?

Are you absolutely positive there'll never be another "Q Continuum" novel, or short story anthology, featuring Janeway's adventures with Suzie Q and family?

No I'm not, I'm never going to be able to read those new books without feeling sad about the ultimate outcome. That's probably just me though.

I'd love to be able to read new Voyager stuff, let's face it, it's the only way there are going to be any more stories. For me I read Trek because it was ultimately uplifting. It has ceased to be so for me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

For me I read Trek because it was ultimately uplifting. It has ceased to be so for me.

Then why are you still here if it distresses you so?

It also confirms my theory that the only thing those in charge of "official Star Trek" cares about is money. They don't care about Star Trek, it's character, it's fans and the premise of the whole phenomenon, it's all about money and their own wallets.

Theory?

It's a fact! "Star Trek" is made to sell soap powder and consumables that appeal to the 18-49 age group, and to earn the studio and its shareholders lots of money. The creators, writers, SPFX people and actors also hope to earn a living making the series.

That was also Gene Roddenberry's reason for creating it.

What? You really thought Star Trek was like a charity, where a big production house made episodes so they could throw money away?

But at the same time, some people working on the show hoped to get some important messages across. Nothing's changed.

 

[Fer]

Are you absolutely positive there'll never be another "Voyager" novel, or short story anthology, set within the seven years of the TV series?

Are you absolutely positive there'll never be another "Q Continuum" novel, or short story anthology, featuring Janeway's adventures with Suzie Q and family?

No I'm not, I'm never going to be able to read those new books without feeling sad about the ultimate outcome. That's probably just me though.

I'd love to be able to read new Voyager stuff, let's face it, it's the only way there are going to be any more stories. For me I read Trek because it was ultimately uplifting. It has ceased to be so for me.

I'm not trying to be a smart-alec here, I'm asking in all seriousness... you mean that because Janeway was killed in a book published by Pocket Books, that you'd feel sad reading any Voyager story published by Pocket Books? Even if it's set during the series?

If so, I don't really understand. It's not like any of these books are canon, and it's not like the book would reference Janeway being killed. How would it be any different from reading a fanfic set during the series?

If I've misunderstood, please clarify that for me. Thank you.

 

[Fer]

Profit, profit, profit! Is that all which counts in this crazy world. No surprise that we have starvation, wars, enviromental destruction and all that when all is about profit.

It also confirms my theory that the only thing those in charge of "official Star Trek" cares about is money. They don't care about Star Trek, it's character, it's fans and the premise of the whole phenomenon, it's all about money and their own wallets.

Well, as Therin pointed out, it is a business. It has to be able to sustain itself to continue. I'm sure there have been plenty of people working on Trek for whom it was just a job, and they only cared about getting paid for their work.

But that doesn't mean that you can't try to run a business and still care about the things you listed. I think the people making the Trek material in general do care about Star Trek. But at the end of the day, you still need to be able to put food on the table for your family.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You know to all the Janeway fans who are going on and on about how her death has ruined Star Trek for them forever, I as a Kirk fan can only say this.....

SUCK IT UP! Look they killed our guy in a MOVIE in a way that can't be undone by an author because it wasn't confusing as hell and as such is canon, I mean if they make a Voyager movie (which while unlikely at this point is still possible) they have to bring her back hence the ending in the book where as our guy is dead and will stay dead in any prime universe productions and we don't having a s#$t fit about it and start swearing off Trek forever.

 

[Christopher]

Profit, profit, profit! Is that all which counts in this crazy world. No surprise that we have starvation, wars, enviromental destruction and all that when all is about profit.

It also confirms my theory that the only thing those in charge of "official Star Trek" cares about is money. They don't care about Star Trek, it's character, it's fans and the premise of the whole phenomenon, it's all about money and their own wallets.

Umm...

Do you have a job? One that you get paid for?

If so, then everything you say here is hypocrisy.

It costs huge amounts of money to make and broadcast a television show. If they didn't make money from it, they couldn't do it, period. Any more than you could keep doing your job if you didn't earn a salary from it.

 

[rahullak]

Answer: Janeway was killed because her death would be polarizing on TrekBBS.

 

[Sci]

But in so many words that's saying Janeway fans are owed Janeway books. Going back to sales and the Locus numbers, don't books without Janeway in them sell better than books with her? It's all about product and profitability.

Profit, profit, profit! Is that all which counts in this crazy world. No surprise that we have starvation, wars, enviromental destruction and all that when all is about profit.

Riiiiiiiiiight. Killing Janeway = war, starvation, and environmental destruction. Completely reasonable conclusion.

It also confirms my theory that the only thing those in charge of "official Star Trek" cares about is money.

Then you fail logic forever.

First off, Dark Gilligan is not "the people in charge of official Star Trek." So you can't take something Dark Gilligan says as in any way being evidence of the motives of former Pocket Books editors Margaret Clark and Marco Palmieri (who made the decision to have Janeway die in Before Dishonor and to continue the VOY series without her, respectively, and who are no longer at Pocket due to recession-related layoffs).

Secondly, Dark Gilligan did not cite profitability as a primary motivator in having Janeway killed off. He/She (I'm sorry, DG, your profile lacks a gender indicator) merely cited the profitability of post-Janeway novels as evidence that the majority of VOY fans are not sufficiently angered by the death of Janeway for Pocket Books to need to revive Janeway to keep the VOY book series alive.

None of that constitutes evidence that all the Pocket editors cared about was profitability. It constitutes evidence that most VOY fans do not share your opinion of the death of Janeway.

 

[Kataaran]

For me I read Trek because it was ultimately uplifting. It has ceased to be so for me.

Then why are you still here if it distresses you so?

Still? I only joined yesterday.

I'm not trying to be a smart-alec here, I'm asking in all seriousness... you mean that because Janeway was killed in a book published by Pocket Books, that you'd feel sad reading any Voyager story published by Pocket Books? Even if it's set during the series?

I did say it was probably just me. I tend to be that way about characters I like in stories, changes my view of the stories I've already read too. It's an annoying habit I don't seem to be able to break.

If so, I don't really understand. It's not like any of these books are canon, and it's not like the book would reference Janeway being killed. How would it be any different from reading a fanfic set during the series?

If I've misunderstood, please clarify that for me. Thank you.

They may not be canon but it's highly doubtful there will ever be any more canon episodes.

 

[DimesDan]

Profit, profit, profit! Is that all which counts in this crazy world. No surprise that we have starvation, wars, enviromental destruction and all that when all is about profit.

Riiiiiiiiiight. Killing Janeway = war, starvation, and environmental destruction. Completely reasonable conclusion.

Not sure he was actually making that link Sci, just that because in his view point the world does revolve around the profit margins of the massive multinationals so much that starvation and war, aswell as the damage caused to the environment are still happening and I have to begrudgingly agree with him on that point.