Compassion and respect? The character was annihilated. Sorry, but I don't call that compassion and respect.
Random Thought: Was Janeway Killed Because She was So Polarizing?
- Thread starter Frontier
- Start date
Compassion and respect? The character was annihilated. Sorry, but I don't call that compassion and respect.
I said that I haven't read Beyer's books.
As for the size of my brush, well . . .
I agree that I have made a sweeping statement about the way Janeway has been written. It is open to challenge, as any generalization should be. But I detested the Janeway in the String Theory trilogy (especially in Book 3, which was just about unreadable) and thought she was out of character in more than one of the Distant Shores stories. That leaves Golden's relaunch novels, which I found mediocre, at best.
Since that takes us back to 2003, I think it meets the "recent years" comment.
Which is your provocative, there is no law that says you must read them, if you want to, then by all means do so, if not, then don't
So if you read about Janeway's death in a licensed novel, which is not canon, you'd be so sad you could never read another VOY book, set in any time period, ever - but if you read a fanfic with a Janeway death you could keep reading VOY fanfics successfully?
I repeat: why are you still here?
OK, I'm not reading post Nemesis stuff because it's become too grim. I'll read the earlier stuff but henceforth there will always be the knowledge of what's round the corner.
When did I mention fanfic? I've never read any.
And I'm here because the title of the thread seems to indicate a discussion about one of my favourite characters.
I see your point and I agree because I have the same feeling when it comes to Kes.
Howwever, I can watch the episodes in season 1-3 and read the books written during those seasons and still enjoy them because I've corrected the damage made to the character in my "Coming Home"-story.
When it comes to Janeway, that's another story. I can always imagine Kes not being on the ship because of some mission elsewhere but it's harder when it comes to Janeway due to the annihilation of the character.
Which is a reason for me to turn my back to "official Star Trek". However, I still see it as important to protest against what I think is a step in the wrong direction. If no one protests, those in charge might think that "everything is OK and everybody is so happy with the decision to kill off Janeway".
But as it is, I prefer to write my own stories where Kes plays an important role and Janeway is still alive.
As for some "post-Nemesis" entertainment, feel free to check out the Kes stories at http://lynx677.110mb.com/Kesstories.html
OK, Kes is the main character but there is a lot of Janeway in them too!
And no references to any "death of Janeway" at all.
Which is your provocative, there is no law that says you must read them, if you want to, then by all means do so, if not, then don't
I just want to say that I don't have a problem with people liking the Voyager Relaunch stuff, I'm just disappointed that there's a gap for people that would prefer to read more stuff in keeping with the show.
I'm still glad I joined this forum, it's nice to be able to talk Trek with fellow fans.
It is possible to read your statement and derive from that that you had actually given up reading them. (I guess I didn't expect someone to keep reading a line of books that continues to make them feel so sad.)
Your choice, of course.
Hehe, I guess that is a bit weird.
It's a fictional character. Writers kill fictional characters all the time. That doesn't mean they lack compassion or respect.
I just want to say that I don't have a problem with people liking the Voyager Relaunch stuff, I'm just disappointed that there's a gap for people that would prefer to read more stuff in keeping with the show.
I'm still glad I joined this forum, it's nice to be able to talk Trek with fellow fans.
We reach! Yea, brother--!
(What, no Space Hippie emoticon?!?)With so many book series running and only 12 slots a year, something always gets left by the side. Right now we're seeing a lot of TOS because of STXI; it might not be until Voyager's next big anniversary, but I'm sure there's more series-era Voyager novels for the people who don't want to read post-series Voyager books coming eventually.
I have to admit, after hearing everyone talk about it here I'm now interested in reading String Theory for some series-era Voyager myself. (Shyeah! I wish. Like I got time to fit three more books into my reading schedule...)
Janeway had already died when Kirsten came along. What Full Circle did was convey the emotional weight of the events that led up to and followed Janeway's death. It was written from the heart, and yes, with compassion and respect. I don't mean to speak for her, but Kirsten has often said in these boards that she liked the character of Kathryn Janeway very much.
This was a really interesting post; thanks for sharing your thoughts. I actually thought Janeway's portrayal was both moving and faithful, both to the character's strengths and her flaws. I do think she had a tendency to be singleminded beyond the scope of what was completely reasonable, at times, and the story did an amazing job showing her coming to terms with that and overcoming it.
And what Places Of Exile showed that the show didn't was Janeway's strength of character meaning something to people other than the crew of Voyager. We ended with them, and her, having essentially created a new Federation in the Delta Quadrant, a stirring and poignant use of her strength representing Federation ideals. I always thought that just getting her crew home was kind of too small for a character so powerful, and I loved that Places Of Exile showed us her coming to terms with a much larger responsibility.
I'm NOT of the opinion that she should've been killed because "her story was over". I do think that her death was a moving place to take the story, but not because there were no other options. Liking this story doesn't preclude me being equally able to like other options. Though I do think Chakotay's character development would've been impossible with Janeway still alive, he was always so much in her shadow.
Anyway, regardless, I can see your perspective on it, but I don't think characters are always served by just presenting them in the best light possible. I think a healthy acknowledgement of her flaws AND strengths was what drew me to her characterization in Places Of Exile
why bother, really? Arguing a point with people that haven't read the material. They're stuck at a certain point while arguing, but those of us that have read past that point can TELL them something, but can't force them to read it. FC did great justice to Janeway's character (after an admittedly lackluster death in a prior novel). But the people that claim to love her want to complain about her sendoff, but refuse to read the novel that actually addresses that.
And Lynx is one of the more vocal ones here, but what was the last VOY book he even read? Using this as a place for a soap box, but only to try and get others to hop on the bandwagon he's driving. Killing Janeway didn't affect Lynx's reading habits one bit
And since there aren't any more VOY novels for a year or so, this argument isn't going to get any more fun unless the haters here actually read the novels they are trashing...
And Lynx is one of the more vocal ones here, but what was the last VOY book he even read? Using this as a place for a soap box, but only to try and get others to hop on the bandwagon he's driving. Killing Janeway didn't affect Lynx's reading habits one bit
And since there aren't any more VOY novels for a year or so, this argument isn't going to get any more fun unless the haters here actually read the novels they are trashing...
Indeed.
Lynx, did the DS9 writers hate Sisko? And Weyoun? And Damar? And Dukat? And Jadzia? And Tekeny Ghemor? And all the others? Death is a part of storytelling, and there's no contradiction whatsoever in loving and respecting a character and choosing that the best story requires them being killed.
Wait, it's been two years already!?
The whole argument just strikes me as sad. Because this isn't about how good or bad the books are, it's not about the sucky way that Janeway was killed off (which was naff), it's about the fact she's gone, pure and simple.
Janeway could have survived Before Dishonour and Destiny could have been an epic Janeway-centric trilogy, brilliantly written, perfectly characterised, with Janeway dying in a blaze of glory and finally defeating the Borg once and for all, doing her character great justice and bringing her story to a natural end.
We could have had all that, and you guys would still be boycotting the new books because "they killed Janeway," quality of the actual books be damned.
Whereas if they left her alive, behind an Admiral's desk, with a few scenes in each novel, you'd have kept buying them. Moaned a bit about her not getting enough screen-time but you'd be buying the books.
And that's why this is sad. It's a binary state. Stories with alive-Janeway = good, stories with dead-Janeway = bad. Utterly regardless of how good (or not) the plots, characterization and such are. And that's also why this discussion is pointless. You won't buy the books again unless she's brought back to life. Okay, we get it. She's your favourite character, you're upset, end of. That's a valid stance to hold, but it's a personal, emotional one. There's no logic to it and it's not one we can debate.
Janeway could have survived Before Dishonour and Destiny could have been an epic Janeway-centric trilogy, brilliantly written, perfectly characterised, with Janeway dying in a blaze of glory and finally defeating the Borg once and for all, doing her character great justice and bringing her story to a natural end.
We could have had all that, and you guys would still be boycotting the new books because "they killed Janeway," quality of the actual books be damned.
Whereas if they left her alive, behind an Admiral's desk, with a few scenes in each novel, you'd have kept buying them. Moaned a bit about her not getting enough screen-time but you'd be buying the books.
And that's why this is sad. It's a binary state. Stories with alive-Janeway = good, stories with dead-Janeway = bad. Utterly regardless of how good (or not) the plots, characterization and such are. And that's also why this discussion is pointless. You won't buy the books again unless she's brought back to life. Okay, we get it. She's your favourite character, you're upset, end of. That's a valid stance to hold, but it's a personal, emotional one. There's no logic to it and it's not one we can debate.
I've actually read Before Dishonor and Full Circle, I didn't want to just knee-jerk my way to a decision not to continue reading the later books. They are well written books and TBH if they'd have killed off Kim I could have ignored that
but ultimately they ain't for me, what with being a Janeway fan and all.Similar threads
