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Who is a better black male role model?

Sisko always stuck out to me as a role model, period.

Of all the Trek leaders, even when I was a little kid, Sisko stuck out to me as the one that I would feel best following. Yes, I'd heard people mentioning it was revolutionary that he was black, but as I said once in a discussion with another fan, that was VERY much of secondary importance to the fact that of all the Trek captains, he was the one in whom I could put real confidence as a leader. This was someone capable of making tough decisions, taking action, and on the personal side, of being a capable and loving single father in a difficult environment. I don't think ANY Trek captain, black or white, has ever measured up to the Sisko standard.

As I was telling this other person, I would not feel confident under the leadership of Janeway or Archer because I felt they were unclear on who they were as leaders. Picard was clear on who he was, but I know I could not have a good working relationship with him, and it would be a question of whether I got kicked off the ship before I could ask for a transfer...I did not feel like he had the stones for some of the tough things that have to be done sometimes. And Kirk--he was tough, all right, but I would not feel comfortable as a woman serving him...to him (well, at least until he got older), it seemed, if you didn't put out, or at least show some leg, you were nothing.

As for Sisko, only three things, really, that he did bother me. The first was in "For the Uniform," when he used WMDs with impunity. The second was his subterfuge in "In the Pale Moonlight." And the third was his awful treatment of Vic in "Badda Bing, Badda Bang." To take it out on a sentient photonic lifeform, to say he was okay with the man's program--his life and being--being erased, simply because his programmer gave him a white person's image was something I found horrible. It suddenly brought what until then had been a really amazing commander, and one that I had felt could treat everybody fairly in the way that he would want to be treated, down to someone who felt that it was okay to allow awful things to befall a person just because he happened to look like people whose ancestors did his harm. Yes, Vic was an artificial life form. But even without knowing the EMH, we'd had enough precedents of AIs being recognized as life--Data, Moriarty, the nanites--that Sisko should never have stooped that low and used his race as an excuse to allow Vic to be harmed.

All I can say is, thank goodness he came around or that would've been a REALLY low point as far as the character was concerned.
 
And Kirk--he was tough, all right, but I would not feel comfortable as a woman serving him...to him (well, at least until he got older), it seemed, if you didn't put out, or at least show some leg, you were nothing.
Kirk never got involved with anyone from his crew. There was an obvious attraction between him and Yeoman Rand, but he felt he couldn't pursue it because he was the captain. And as for showing some leg, every woman in TOS did, but it not because of Kirk, but because the creators of the show decided that women should wear miniskirts. So it's not like you could see whether a woman who did not wear a miniskirt would be treated any differently, since there were none, and there is no reason to think she would, since Kirk was very professional with his crew and did not sexual harass anyone or comment on women's appearance or dress. (And the "Shore Leave" backrub scene - which people only seem to bring up because they completely misinterpret it as K/S slashy, failing to see what it was all about - showed that he was very uncomfortable with any appearance of impropriety between him and the females under his command).

(The bad Kirk of "The Enemy Within" was the exception, but that was not the real, normal Kirk - just his animalistic side).

I've never been a big fan of Kirk, but people tend to misrepresent him a lot and make him into a caricature that has little similarity to the actual character.

As for Sisko, only three things, really, that he did bother me. The first was in "For the Uniform," when he used WMDs with impunity. The second was his subterfuge in "In the Pale Moonlight." And the third was his awful treatment of Vic in "Badda Bing, Badda Bang." To take it out on a sentient photonic lifeform, to say he was okay with the man's program--his life and being--being erased, simply because his programmer gave him a white person's image was something I found horrible.
:confused: :wtf: When did he ever suggest anything like that?
 
Tuvok and Worf, however, are just aliens who are played by black actors, their race is largely immaterial to their characters. And Uhura's a woman, so I'm not sure why she'd be on this list.

Originally Posted by DarKush
I don't think you can really consider Worf, or Tuvok for that matter, since they are supposed to be aliens.
Raises a interesting thought, is Tuvok in fact black? Was Tim Russ a black actor playing a non-black charactor.
 
As for Sisko, only three things, really, that he did bother me. The first was in "For the Uniform," when he used WMDs with impunity. The second was his subterfuge in "In the Pale Moonlight." And the third was his awful treatment of Vic in "Badda Bing, Badda Bang." To take it out on a sentient photonic lifeform, to say he was okay with the man's program--his life and being--being erased, simply because his programmer gave him a white person's image was something I found horrible.
:confused: :wtf: When did he ever suggest anything like that?

When he decided that because IRL whites in Vic's time period were often racist, that Vic and the program that contained him ought to be left to die. Even though VIC HIMSELF WAS PROGRAMMED NOT TO GIVE A FLYING FRAK ABOUT RACE.
 
As for Sisko, only three things, really, that he did bother me. The first was in "For the Uniform," when he used WMDs with impunity. The second was his subterfuge in "In the Pale Moonlight." And the third was his awful treatment of Vic in "Badda Bing, Badda Bang." To take it out on a sentient photonic lifeform, to say he was okay with the man's program--his life and being--being erased, simply because his programmer gave him a white person's image was something I found horrible.
:confused: :wtf: When did he ever suggest anything like that?

When he decided that because IRL whites in Vic's time period were often racist, that Vic and the program that contained him ought to be left to die. Even though VIC HIMSELF WAS PROGRAMMED NOT TO GIVE A FLYING FRAK ABOUT RACE.
I didn't understand it in that way. I thought he just didn't care for the program and had no desire to go there, like Kasidy did, because he found it historically inaccurate, and thought that it misrepresented the true history and negated the real problems and sufferings of black people in the past, by making it seem that black people were welcome in the 1960s Las Vegas. Kasidy responded with her view that this was a good thing, because the program presented the past not as it was, but as it should have been.

As far as I remember, this was all about the reasons Sisko had never been to the program or met Vic. I don't believe it had anythingto do with his decision to help or not help Vic, whom he didn't even know at that point... I think he just thought they had more important things to do than help a hologram against other holograms. He probably did not understand at that point what the fuss was about and how independent and sentient Vic was, as he'd never met him.
 
:confused: :wtf: When did he ever suggest anything like that?

When he decided that because IRL whites in Vic's time period were often racist, that Vic and the program that contained him ought to be left to die. Even though VIC HIMSELF WAS PROGRAMMED NOT TO GIVE A FLYING FRAK ABOUT RACE.
I didn't understand it in that way. I thought he just didn't care for the program and had no desire to go there, like Kasidy did, because he found it historically inaccurate, and thought that it misrepresented the true history and negated the real problems and sufferings of black people in the past, by making it seem that black people were welcome in the 1960s Las Vegas. Kasidy responded with her view that this was a good thing, because the program presented the past not as it was, but as it should have been.

As far as I remember, this was all about the reasons Sisko had never been to the program or met Vic. I don't believe it had anythingto do with his decision to help or not help Vic, whom he didn't even know at that point... I think he just thought they had more important things to do than help a hologram against other holograms. He probably did not understand at that point what the fuss was about and how independent and sentient Vic was, as he'd never met him.

IIRC Casidy (sp?) calls ben on his attitude towards Vic and part of Sisko's answer is about blacks NOT being ALLOWED in Vegas during the RL time period the Holo-Program is based on.
 
Maybe not in RL, but Vic's program is not grounded in RL--therefore Vic simply cannot experience that sort of bigotry, so to take it out on him is extremely unfair. The only fair way to treat Vic, given that he is a sentient being, is the same way that a being who hailed from an alternate universe (and in this case a better one than the prime one) would be treated. To do otherwise, frankly, is discriminatory.
 
Maybe not in RL, but Vic's program is not grounded in RL--therefore Vic simply cannot experience that sort of bigotry, so to take it out on him is extremely unfair. The only fair way to treat Vic, given that he is a sentient being, is the same way that a being who hailed from an alternate universe (and in this case a better one than the prime one) would be treated. To do otherwise, frankly, is discriminatory.

NO argument there

This was one of the ways/times that Sisko was shown to NOT to be PERFECT [ The opposite of GR's TNG View :devil: ] Ben had Short-Commings (sp)

I liked that touch although it maed Ben look like a bit of an A**
 
I'm kind of confused as to why people are questioning the validity of the OP's question. Nichelle Nichols was told by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. NOT to leave TOS because she was an excellent role model for young African American youths.

Why is it wrong to pose the question? All children need good role models, whether they are African American, Caucasian, Latino etc. Of course we would hope their parents would be good role models, but what is wrong with having good role models on television or in the movies?

I'm confused as to why anyone should question the OP's post.....

I think Joel posed an answer to that question:

Worf is a 'black' male....? Last I checked, I didn't have a lobster/football for a head, and I didn't smell like....um...'lilac'....nor have a taste for bloodwine...etc...etc..

Now, what if an Asian male wanted to look up to Sisko?

What if a white woman wanted to look up to Uhura?

What if a black male wanted to look up to Shran? Spock? The sexy Romulan Commander from TOS 'Enterprise Incident'...?

Why the hell are only 'black' characters singled out? Especially when this is geared towards a franchise that is supposed to break down barriers on sex, race, etc...etc...etc...?

If you don't have a ridged cranium?

Hmm...

You don't have pointed ears, or slanted eyebrows do you, Joel?

j/k, my friend...

No, I don't have pointed ears or slanted eyebrows, Kristy...:lol:

****

Even though he had a minor role, I do like Commodore Stone...
 
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