Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

[Harvey]

There was more than one spin-off?

There were three attempts, by my count.

The first, and most succesful, was Crusade, which began with the telemovie A Call to Arms and then was launched as a series proper that lasted 13 episodes. TNT had decided to cancel the series before it had even aired, and meddled constantly to get out of their contract, but I think it is still worth watching.

The second attempt at a spin-off was Babylon 5: The Legend of the Rangers. A two-hour pilot movie called "To Live and Die in Starlight" was produced by the Sci-Fi Channel when they couldn't assemble the funds to simply pick up and continue Crusade. But it aired against, IIRC, and AFC football championship game and was pummled in the ratings. So all that we have is the pilot on DVD.

The third attempt at a spin-off was an anthology series that were to go straight to DVD, called Babylon 5: The Lost Tales. Only the first DVD, "Voices in the Dark," was produced. After that the writer's strike happened, and then Warner Bros. backed off on their promise to fund further installments with bigger budgets. To that Joe Straczynski decided to end the series, and has said he will only continue the franchise in the form of a big budget film.

In addition to those, there were four television movies produced for TNT, as well as a re-edited version of The Gathering which I assume you've already seen. These movies were In The Beginning, Thirdspace, River of Souls, and the aforementioned A Call to Arms.

Hope I'm not repeating anyone.

 

[shivkala]

There were three attempts, by my count.

The first, and most succesful, was Crusade, which began with the telemovie A Call to Arms and then was launched as a series proper that lasted 13 episodes. TNT had decided to cancel the series before it had even aired, and meddled constantly to get out of their contract, but I think it is still worth watching.

Which is a shame, because it had so much potential and I really liked the cast.

The second attempt at a spin-off was Babylon 5: The Legend of the Rangers. A two-hour pilot movie called "To Live and Die in Starlight" was produced by the Sci-Fi Channel when they couldn't assemble the funds to simply pick up and continue Crusade. But it aired against, IIRC, and AFC football championship game and was pummled in the ratings. So all that we have is the pilot on DVD.

In my opinion, it's notable only for Andreas Katsulas' last performance as G'Kar, before his death. While there could have been potential (after all, "The Gathering" itself had many problems, as did Crusade. What made those shows, for me, was the fact that they got better as they went on, and we were able to see how small things early on related to larger events later.

The third attempt at a spin-off was an anthology series that were to go straight to DVD, called Babylon 5: The Lost Tales. Only the first DVD, "Voices in the Dark," was produced. After that the writer's strike happened, and then Warner Bros. backed off on their promise to fund further installments with bigger budgets. To that Joe Straczynski decided to end the series, and has said he will only continue the franchise in the form of a big budget film.

In an interview with JMS, he clarified that comment. He's said that in the business, the more money a studio commits to a movie, the better off it will be. He's afraid of them not giving it its proper due and having a sub-par product.

 

[tomalak301]

There was more
In addition to those, there were four television movies produced for TNT, as well as a re-edited version of The Gathering which I assume you've already seen. These movies were In The Beginning, Thirdspace, River of Souls, and the aforementioned A Call to Arms.

Hope I'm not repeating anyone.

I think I saw the original Gathering, since the music in The Gathering sounded so different from what we got in the regular series. I may see the re-edit, but really don't see the need to at this point.

 

[Harvey]

The third attempt at a spin-off was an anthology series that were to go straight to DVD, called Babylon 5: The Lost Tales. Only the first DVD, "Voices in the Dark," was produced. After that the writer's strike happened, and then Warner Bros. backed off on their promise to fund further installments with bigger budgets. To that Joe Straczynski decided to end the series, and has said he will only continue the franchise in the form of a big budget film.

In an interview with JMS, he clarified that comment. He's said that in the business, the more money a studio commits to a movie, the better off it will be. He's afraid of them not giving it its proper due and having a sub-par product.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise, although I still think JMS is reaching for the unreachable in this case. Warner Bros. just doesn't have the interest to sustain a properly budgeted version of Babylon 5. I respect his decision, but it ultimately means the end of the franchise unless things take a serious turn.

There was more
In addition to those, there were four television movies produced for TNT, as well as a re-edited version of The Gathering which I assume you've already seen. These movies were In The Beginning, Thirdspace, River of Souls, and the aforementioned A Call to Arms.

Hope I'm not repeating anyone.

I think I saw the original Gathering, since the music in The Gathering sounded so different from what we got in the regular series. I may see the re-edit, but really don't see the need to at this point.

It's worth it if you're re-watching the series. Otherwise, no need.

 

[Jan]

I didn't mean to imply otherwise, although I still think JMS is reaching for the unreachable in this case. Warner Bros. just doesn't have the interest to sustain a properly budgeted version of Babylon 5. I respect his decision, but it ultimately means the end of the franchise unless things take a serious turn.

Keep in mind that JMS owns the movie rights. If and when he comes up with a story that, as he said, "...burns to be told...", then if Warner Bros. doesn't want to do it, he can take it to any other studio.

Jan

 

[CobraCommander]

I respect JMS for having created Babylon 5. He created an original concept with its own viable and functioning universe. He didn't reboot anyone elses creations and expanded the Sci-Fi genre. If he doesn't want to make crap, good for him and Babylon 5. I also personally believe that if it wan't for his pitch for Babylon 5 back in 1989, there would have been no "lightbulb moment" at Paramount for DS9. Cobra

 

[tomalak301]

I'm getting 2 B5 movies in the mail this week as rentals. In the Beginning and A Call to Arms. Didn't think I would get 2, but I'm somewhat excited. It's almost like ever since B5 ended I've been feeling a little void. Granted, I still have somewhat of a life, but I was starting to wonder if I went a little too fast. Looking forward to these two movies though.

 

[Forbin]

Cool, they're the two best, IMHO. Call to Arms is the pilot for Crusade, so you can swing into the series (what there is of it) after that.

I'll be interested in your reaction to some of the minor reconning in ItB, and the controversial new composer in CtA.

 

[Mr Light]

^^ Those are the only two particularly good movies. ... I just re-watched "Exogenesis" and I've always felt this episode isn't as bad as most make it out to be. Sure the parasite story is lame but you ALSO have the hilarious subplots with Ivanova/Corwin and the interaction between Marcus and Franklin.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Although it very much retells a story we already know, "In the Beginning" is by far the best B5 movie. It's epic, it's moving, it has some great acting by Peter Jurasik.

"The River of Souls" and "The Legend of the Rangers" are pretty weak entries and only true B5 fans can stand to watch them. And "The Lost Tales" is basically two short-stories with an extremely limited budget. It has almost the production values of a fan film (it would be a good fan film though).

The rest of the bunch (The Gathering, Thirdspace, A Call to Arms) is somewhere between those extremes.

 

[tomalak301]

In the Beginning

So, this is the second movie I've seen, the first being The Gathering of course. Overall, I liked it, and I liked getting the backstory of the Earth Minbari War. While we already got the gist of it through the regular series, it was nice seeing it all come together in this movie, as well as going through Delenn's thought process during the whole thing from anger to regret, to downright desperation to end this thing. I also liked that it was told through flashbacks from Mollari, from War without End and the scene at the end was a nice touch.

It was nice to see all the characters from the series except I missed Garibaldi but I guess he was still on Mars at the time. Heck, even Susan made an appearance even though I wasn't quite sure about the hairstyle. Peter Jurasik might be my favorite actor on the show. He stole every scene he was in.

As for the continuity glitches and retcons, I haven't studied this series as much as others have, but the only thing that made me scratch my head was the stuff with Sheridan, Franklin, and G'Kar. Seemed like from the second season, on B5 was where they first met. What were the other retcons?

 

[Lindley]

There isn't actually anything in season 2 to indicate those three hadn't met before. Neither is there an indication they did, though.

The only other retcon I noticed was that originally Sheridan said the mine ambush occurred in the Sol asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. While it's possible that was the setting in the movie, I certainly didn't get that impression.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

As for the continuity glitches and retcons, I haven't studied this series as much as others have, but the only thing that made me scratch my head was the stuff with Sheridan, Franklin, and G'Kar. Seemed like from the second season, on B5 was where they first met. What were the other retcons?

I think JMS justified it by saying that we never actually saw how Sheridan and Franklin or Sheridan and G'Kar first met in Season 2. Or at least there's not a scene where Sheridan approaches Franklin and says "Hi, my name is John Sheridan, and I'm your your new CO." We're supposed to assume that they already knew each other from a that mission they were on about 15 years ago.

 

[Mr Light]

Just saw "Messages From Earth", with the most blatant character introduction ever: the Nightwatch leader security man, who doesn't even warrant a name, is abruptly introduced the episode before his big movement. You see, we suspect he's a bad guy because he tells Zack that watching people on the security cameras without them knowing he's watching makes him feel like God. Subtle! It's things like this that make me scratch my head. JMS knew what would happen in "Point of No Return" so why doesn't he start setting up this character back in Season Two?

 

[Forbin]

One other story change in ItB was the omission of the Soul Hunters from the moment of Dukat's death. A big deal was made of the event in the 1st season episode, but jms decided that reenacting it here would bring the pacing of the scene to a sreaching halt, so he left it out.

 

[Jan]

JMS knew what would happen in "Point of No Return" so why doesn't he start setting up this character back in Season Two?

Possible story reason: In situations like the NightWatch there well always be weasels coming out of the woodwork to take advantage and grab power that ordinarily wouldn't be given to them.

Possible real life reasons: First, there were so many characters already in play that setting up somebody who was only needed for a very few episodes. Second, money. The show could only afford so many characters for so many episodes and most of the time they could only afford a couple of guest spots. Developing a short-term character would have taken funds that were better used for the current stories.

Jan

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

As for the continuity glitches and retcons, I haven't studied this series as much as others have, but the only thing that made me scratch my head was the stuff with Sheridan, Franklin, and G'Kar. Seemed like from the second season, on B5 was where they first met. What were the other retcons?

I think JMS justified it by saying that we never actually saw how Sheridan and Franklin or Sheridan and G'Kar first met in Season 2. Or at least there's not a scene where Sheridan approaches Franklin and says "Hi, my name is John Sheridan, and I'm your your new CO." We're supposed to assume that they already knew each other from a that mission they were on about 15 years ago.

The first scene between Franklin and Sheridan, in "Revelations," seems to indicate a passing familiarity with each other.

Truthfully, that's one aspect of the telefilm that I'm not too pleased with. Then again, I can let it go. If The Winds of War and War and Remembrance were the models for the movies, then I'd have to be okay with the contrivances. In Wouk's books, it seems as if he jumped through a lot of hoops to get his characters, particularly Pug Henry, connected to one another in some fashion. And I enjoyed those two books as well as the miniseries.

Although I regret that Dell didn't take JMS original pitch for the first batch of novels. He wanted to do a three-book or two-book series that covered the Earth-Minbari War in a War and Remembrance fashion. I'd have liked that because we'd get more of Sinclair's story.

Peter David put an extra meeting in his novelization that I thought was brilliant. Sheridan and Sinclair meet on opposite maglev train tracks, and we get to view Sinclair through Sheridan's eyes filtered through Londo's narration. They have a brief conversation, subtly indicating their weariness at the war. The best part, and this is paraphrase, is the description of Sinclair:

...in a crowded room, he'd be alone.

 

[Reverend]

One other story change in ItB was the omission of the Soul Hunters from the moment of Dukat's death. A big deal was made of the event in the 1st season episode, but jms decided that reenacting it here would bring the pacing of the scene to a sreaching halt, so he left it out.

It is however in the novelization, right up to them boarding the Valen'tha and being stopped by Delenn and the others forming a wall of bodies. They were also glimpsed in the flashback in 'Atonement' so it's not as if anything was changed, just omitted for storytelling. It might be well to remember that this is a story being told to children by Mollari, not a documentary, so you could argue that he simply omitted that little detail because it wasn't that relevant.

I'm not sure if that scene omitted at the writing stage or if it was scripted then dropped prior to filming. Jan?

 

[Jan]

I'm not sure if that scene omitted at the writing stage or if it was scripted then dropped prior to filming. Jan?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't in the script but I'll check the early drafts this evening when I get home from work.

Jan

 

[Mal]

In the Beginning
the only thing that made me scratch my head was the stuff with Sheridan, Franklin, and G'Kar.

first off - i'm so happy this thread is back up and running!

i was never happy with the sheridan/franklin/g'kar trio in ITB. it seemed really forced. like there are only 12 guys in the B5 'verse...

on the other hand, it kinda works that way in real life. there were basically a hand-full of founding fathers that did most of the visible work - they had tons of different high-level jobs leading up to, during, and after the revolution.

babylon 5 - the goldman sachs of the twenty-third century!