Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it
- Thread starter tomalak301
- Start date
Since they were pretty much pioneering television-level CGI as they went, it's no surprise it started out fairly weak.
They get much better as they go, but don't expect 2009-level CGI on a 90s show.
Deep Space Nine switched to CGI in season 6, concurrent with B5's fifth and final year, because that's when the technology got good enough to look pretty similar to model work. I doubt they could have made that switch when they did if the B5 folks hadn't been pushing the tech forward all that time.
Unlike DS9, though, B5 never tried to make their CGI look like model work----they tried to show off what they could do with it that models couldn't.
They get much better as they go, but don't expect 2009-level CGI on a 90s show.
Deep Space Nine switched to CGI in season 6, concurrent with B5's fifth and final year, because that's when the technology got good enough to look pretty similar to model work. I doubt they could have made that switch when they did if the B5 folks hadn't been pushing the tech forward all that time.
Unlike DS9, though, B5 never tried to make their CGI look like model work----they tried to show off what they could do with it that models couldn't.
If you're going to judge B5 on graphics alone, than I will say it's not for you. For me though going through the series for the first time, I really didn't have a problem with the Graphics starting with The Long Twilight Struggle going to the end of the series.
I thought they gradually started integrating in CGI from about Season 3, and Season 6 or so is just the point at which it became majority CGI.
^So Die is Cast and Way of the Warrior space battles were not CGI. I think that makes them look even more impressive.
One thing to keep in mind is that for its time, when it was on TV, the graphics were awesome for TV. They do look a little cheesy by today's standards, but by its own standards, when it was originally on the air, it was A++ work and really new to TV. So, you are getting the absolute BEST from its time period at least.
I'm re-watching B5 right now and I still feel that the CGI after Season One holds up very well. It may not be photo-real but its own little world it's damn beautiful to me. I can't wait to see the big battles again later in S3/4! The S1 CGI is a mite wonky though. The explosions are particularly pathetic; it's basically a little ball of light with a couple triangles of debris flying out 
I think those were combinations of CGI and models. IIRC, some of the shots in "Way of the Warrior" definitely looked CG.
I'm not so sure. While at the time the DS9 battles were very cool, looking back now they ring a little hollow. Not so much in terms of the quality of the effects as the staging. The battles in B5, going all the way back to "Signs & Portents" always had a sense of tactics while the DS9 battles tended to be just swarms of ships randomly blasting each other and blowing up every five seconds.
Checked the script. No sign of Soul Hunters in either of the drafts of the scrip I have and no indication that scenes were removed (that sort of thing is usually noted if scenes were dropped from one draft to another).
Jan
^I'm sure I remember a jms post somewhere saying he dropped the Soul Hunters from the very beginning, for the sake of time and simplicity of storytelling.
I heartily agree - Trek writers had no concept at all of tactics or strategy, just of showing purdy exploshuns and ships zipping around. I was so very happy when B5 showed battles with clearly deliniated tactics, such as the final battle over Mars.
I heartily agree - Trek writers had no concept at all of tactics or strategy, just of showing purdy exploshuns and ships zipping around. I was so very happy when B5 showed battles with clearly deliniated tactics, such as the final battle over Mars.
^That was one of the most awesome things about Endgame when I saw it, the strategy of the battle was just as important, if not moreso, than the battle itself. In DS9, especially in Way of the Warrior, you just had the station shooting like it's no tomorrow and missing half the time. How many torpedos were just but just into space missing everything. Granted it's a station and you probably can't control it as well as a starship, but it's also a valuable waste of resource. In B5, everything was mapped out, shots were fired that actually meant something, and just having that dissection of the strategy (I was smiling when they were going through the whole scene and barely any shots were fired at all) was the core instead of just firing for the sake of firing.
They aren't in the movie, but they *ARE* in an expanded version of that scene in the episode "Atonement". Right after Dukhat asks the Warrior Caste member who's order it was to have the gun ports open, Delenn points on the viewer and then Dukhat says "Soul Hunters!" Then Delenn says they only come for death and Dukhat orders the gun ports closed because of that, but the Humans have already started attacking.
jms said about not including the Soul Hunters in the movie:
jms said:
Give it a chance anyway. You won't be sorry. It starts out slow, and has a few bad episodes, but overall, it's the second best sci-fi show ever made.
The River of Souls
I went into this one with somewhat low expectations because I heard it wasn't as good. True, it wasn't as good as In the Beginning, but I still enjoyed it, or at least the second half. The first half felt like your typical Babylon 5 Season 5 episode, in which involves characters you don't care about in a story that is not very interesting. Once the Soul Hunters showed up, things kind of ratcheted up a bit and the story fell into place. I really liked that this episode finally gave Lochley a chance to be the star. I guess maybe that's why I liked this one, because it is the first time I think that Sheridan and Delenn were not there, and Lochley was the center, with Zack and Michael supporting. Also, we got two Lochley's for the price of one, can't beat that.
Anyway, as for the story when it got going, not too bad. I think it could have been a good two part episode because this one didn't really feel like a movie on an epic scope. Granted movies don't really need to be epic, but this one might have fallen into the Star Trek Insurrection syndrome, good (At least I think so) but as a movie, could have been a lot better. At first I was like "Did we really need to see the Soul Hunters again", but over time, it became something intriguing. The Brothel storyline though I could have used without. Yeah it served as a conduit for the souls, but everything before that was kind of wasted. I did enjoy two Lochley's for the price of one though, as I've mentioned already.
I do wonder though if Martin Sheen was miscast as the Soul Hunter. Man at the beginning he was not good at all. First words out of his mouth had me rolling my eyes. Over time he got somewhat better, only because I got used to him, but it was a horribly miscast character I think. As for McShane, I've only seen some of his work (Voices really) so it was hard to say. He was alright I guess.
One other thing, I know it's corny, forced humor, and probably bad, but I loved the Love Bat. At the end I knew she was going to give the Lawyer it, but the modifications were hilarious. "I'm a loser" "I'm an idiot."
I went into this one with somewhat low expectations because I heard it wasn't as good. True, it wasn't as good as In the Beginning, but I still enjoyed it, or at least the second half. The first half felt like your typical Babylon 5 Season 5 episode, in which involves characters you don't care about in a story that is not very interesting. Once the Soul Hunters showed up, things kind of ratcheted up a bit and the story fell into place. I really liked that this episode finally gave Lochley a chance to be the star. I guess maybe that's why I liked this one, because it is the first time I think that Sheridan and Delenn were not there, and Lochley was the center, with Zack and Michael supporting. Also, we got two Lochley's for the price of one, can't beat that.
Anyway, as for the story when it got going, not too bad. I think it could have been a good two part episode because this one didn't really feel like a movie on an epic scope. Granted movies don't really need to be epic, but this one might have fallen into the Star Trek Insurrection syndrome, good (At least I think so) but as a movie, could have been a lot better. At first I was like "Did we really need to see the Soul Hunters again", but over time, it became something intriguing. The Brothel storyline though I could have used without. Yeah it served as a conduit for the souls, but everything before that was kind of wasted. I did enjoy two Lochley's for the price of one though, as I've mentioned already.
I do wonder though if Martin Sheen was miscast as the Soul Hunter. Man at the beginning he was not good at all. First words out of his mouth had me rolling my eyes. Over time he got somewhat better, only because I got used to him, but it was a horribly miscast character I think. As for McShane, I've only seen some of his work (Voices really) so it was hard to say. He was alright I guess.
One other thing, I know it's corny, forced humor, and probably bad, but I loved the Love Bat. At the end I knew she was going to give the Lawyer it, but the modifications were hilarious. "I'm a loser" "I'm an idiot."
Similar threads
