What was the Kelvin doing in the Prime Universe?

[James Bond]

Since the Kelvin was there before Nero's incursion, what was it doing in the prime universe?

It wasn't in the Prime universe.

Nero's ship arrived in that alternate (or real universe, depending on one's viewpoint) to capture Spock Prime before he arrived. Hence, waiting 20 years because they--Nero and his crew--arrived too early...

And if the Kelvin was in the Prime Universe, the viewscreens, consoles, and weapons must have took a step backward between 2233 and 2265.

Like we see the Kelvin firing tons of lasers/phasers. (rapid-fire)
http://trekmovie.com/images/st09/intelkelvinphasers.jpg

Then we see the TOS Enterprise firing like, one phaser.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/49/Enterprise_fires_on_planet.jpg

.

What happened to these turrets in the prime universe?

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

 

[M'Sharak]

(M'Sharak: Sorry.)

And those cool screens on the Kelvin that said "COLLISION COURSE ENGAGED" got downgraded in the TOS era.

Or you could just acknowledge that the state of the art in visual effects in 1966-69 was not capable of doing anything like those cool screens on a television budget or even a movie budget, and that such would continue to be the case straight through all of the TOS movies. Visual effects and design are consistent with the time in which the movie or show is produced, and that's all there is to it.

Seriously, the argument that the Kelvin (or the Enterprise NX-01, for that matter) cannot have come before the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 because this or that feature looks "too advanced" ... well, that's a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. It simply does not require an in-universe explanation.

 

[Chrisisall]

They were looking for a Starbuck's. Caffeine makes it easier to handle the lens flares.

LOFL!!!

Without lenflares, movies themselves, would be impossible.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

Uh....no.

 

[Cyke101]

And if the Kelvin was in the Prime Universe, the viewscreens, consoles, and weapons must have took a step backward between 2233 and 2265.

Like we see the Kelvin firing tons of lasers/phasers. (rapid-fire)
http://trekmovie.com/images/st09/intelkelvinphasers.jpg

Then we see the TOS Enterprise firing like, one phaser.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/49/Enterprise_fires_on_planet.jpg


What happened to these turrets in the prime universe?

I disagree somewhat with these assessments. Even in modern times, it's possible for something to look primitive but actually be very advanced. The iPod is probably the best modern example: it's just a screen with one dial. And yet that one dial does everything, from menu to volume to upload. Even a CD player with a touchscreen interface looks more advanced b/c it has more buttons and it's flashier, but it's obsolete compared to the iPod. Who knows how Treknology fares?

As for weapons, we've already seen how appearance of weapons can be deceiving. The TOS Defiant retains the same look and feel from the 60s, but it was ripping apart 22nd century ships whose weaponry was made with much more advanced CGI, for example. Likewise, DS9's Defiant has rapidfire pulse cannons that appear powerful and devastating, but Braxton's future timeship had a simple beam weapon that nearly split Voyager apart.

And for consoles, in TOS we never really saw that many computer screen displays. Camera tricks would show characters looking into screens, but they'd rarely show us what was on the screen, like Spock's scope or Sulu's pop-up viewfinder. For all we know, the internals of Spock's scope look just as impressive as anything on the JJprise.

Finally, from memory-alpha:

According to Star Trek screenwriter Roberto Orci, the telemetry data recorded by the Kelvin of the technologically advanced Narada during the battle was probably brought back to Starfleet via the surviving shuttles. Orci also implied that Starfleet's exposure to this data may explain why its ships and technology appear different in the alternate universe. [3] Director J.J. Abrams also said in an interview with MTV [4] that readings from the Narada "inspired ideas and technology that wouldn't have advanced otherwise."

We see something similar in the Prime Universe: ships like the Defiant were made after the Enterprise-D first encountered the Borg. B/c of that one encounter, there were rapid advancements in Starfleet technology (just ask Sisko and Shelby). The Defiant and the Sovereign look almost nothing like the ships that came before them.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

(M'Sharak: Sorry.)

And those cool screens on the Kelvin that said "COLLISION COURSE ENGAGED" got downgraded in the TOS era.

Or you could just acknowledge that the state of the art in visual effects in 1966-69 was not capable of doing anything like those cool screens on a television budget or even a movie budget, and that such would continue to be the case straight through all of the TOS movies. Visual effects and design are consistent with the time in which the movie or show is produced, and that's all there is to it.

Seriously, the argument that the Kelvin (or the Enterprise NX-01, for that matter) cannot have come before the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 because this or that feature looks "too advanced" ... well, that's a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. It simply does not require an in-universe explanation.

Fo'sho.

 

[James Bond]

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

Uh....no.

Uh...yes.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

Uh....no.

Uh...yes.

You missed pretty much everything the filmmakers have said on this issue, haven't you? If they say history hasn't been changed, then by definition, it hasn't.

Besides, old school Trek novels will continue to be released, so what's the problem?

 

[Lindley]

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

Uh....no.

Uh...yes.

It's really a fairly irrelevant distinction. I choose to view any timeline change as an alternate universe being split off, both because that's most consistent with our understanding of real physics, and because it neatly allows stories to be told in both frameworks.

Just because I'm curious about where this new universe will go doesn't mean I don't want to see the continuing adventures of Captain Ezri Dax of the USS Aventine.

Plus there's no reason not to think of it that way.

 

[Sabataage]

(M'Sharak: Sorry.)

And those cool screens on the Kelvin that said "COLLISION COURSE ENGAGED" got downgraded in the TOS era.

Or you could just acknowledge that the state of the art in visual effects in 1966-69 was not capable of doing anything like those cool screens on a television budget or even a movie budget, and that such would continue to be the case straight through all of the TOS movies. Visual effects and design are consistent with the time in which the movie or show is produced, and that's all there is to it.

Seriously, the argument that the Kelvin (or the Enterprise NX-01, for that matter) cannot have come before the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 because this or that feature looks "too advanced" ... well, that's a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. It simply does not require an in-universe explanation.

Amen. The way I see it, TNG was always how Rodenberry intended the future to look. He couldn't get that in the sixties on a TV budget. So when they started the new show they explained the differences by saying it was eighty years in the future. By the time Undiscovered Country came out they were using many of the same sets from the series and the differences between the 23rd and 24th century were almost superficial (different uniforms, phasers, etc.).

 

[DontFeedPhil]

Actually, the universe seen in JJ's Star Trek is, in fact, the prime universe. History has been changed by Nero's actions; and unfortunately, the producers needed to invent the whole "alternate" angle in order to appease the rabid fanboys who wouldn't be able to take the truth.

Uh....no.

Uh...yes.

I second the Uh...yes.

 

[Ovation]

No.

 

[CaptainPipcard]

And the bridge:
1701 (TOS):
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/factfiles/1701-bridge.jpg
Kelvin:
http://img.trekmovie.com/images/st09/trail3/57.jpg
(sorry, it was the only picture I could find)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's really a fairly irrelevant distinction. I choose to view any timeline change as an alternate universe being split off, both because that's most consistent with our understanding of real physics, and because it neatly allows stories to be told in both frameworks.

There's also the black hole to consider. Who's to say that the black hole didn't lead to an actual alternate universe, not just a past timeline? It would certainly explain why the prime universe was not altered in any way - because Nero and Spock Prime didn't emerge in *its* past, they emerged in another *universe's* past.

(It would also explain other things, such as the altered stardate system and the look of the Kelvin being so different from TOS.)

 

[Unimatrix_0]

And if the Kelvin was in the Prime Universe, the viewscreens, consoles, and weapons must have took a step backward between 2233 and 2265.

Like we see the Kelvin firing tons of lasers/phasers. (rapid-fire)
http://trekmovie.com/images/st09/intelkelvinphasers.jpg

Then we see the TOS Enterprise firing like, one phaser.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/49/Enterprise_fires_on_planet.jpg


What happened to these turrets in the prime universe?

I disagree somewhat with these assessments. Even in modern times, it's possible for something to look primitive but actually be very advanced. The iPod is probably the best modern example: it's just a screen with one dial. And yet that one dial does everything, from menu to volume to upload. Even a CD player with a touchscreen interface looks more advanced b/c it has more buttons and it's flashier, but it's obsolete compared to the iPod. Who knows how Treknology fares?

As for weapons, we've already seen how appearance of weapons can be deceiving. The TOS Defiant retains the same look and feel from the 60s, but it was ripping apart 22nd century ships whose weaponry was made with much more advanced CGI, for example. Likewise, DS9's Defiant has rapidfire pulse cannons that appear powerful and devastating, but Braxton's future timeship had a simple beam weapon that nearly split Voyager apart.

And for consoles, in TOS we never really saw that many computer screen displays. Camera tricks would show characters looking into screens, but they'd rarely show us what was on the screen, like Spock's scope or Sulu's pop-up viewfinder. For all we know, the internals of Spock's scope look just as impressive as anything on the JJprise.

Finally, from memory-alpha:

According to Star Trek screenwriter Roberto Orci, the telemetry data recorded by the Kelvin of the technologically advanced Narada during the battle was probably brought back to Starfleet via the surviving shuttles. Orci also implied that Starfleet's exposure to this data may explain why its ships and technology appear different in the alternate universe. [3] Director J.J. Abrams also said in an interview with MTV [4] that readings from the Narada "inspired ideas and technology that wouldn't have advanced otherwise."

We see something similar in the Prime Universe: ships like the Defiant were made after the Enterprise-D first encountered the Borg. B/c of that one encounter, there were rapid advancements in Starfleet technology (just ask Sisko and Shelby). The Defiant and the Sovereign look almost nothing like the ships that came before them.

Nicely explained!

 

[BolianAuthor]

They were looking for a Starbuck's. Caffeine makes it easier to handle the lens flares.

LOFL!!!

Without lenflares, movies themselves, would be impossible.

At least those made by Michael Bay.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

And if the Kelvin was in the Prime Universe, the viewscreens, consoles, and weapons must have took a step backward between 2233 and 2265.

Like we see the Kelvin firing tons of lasers/phasers. (rapid-fire)
http://trekmovie.com/images/st09/intelkelvinphasers.jpg

Then we see the TOS Enterprise firing like, one phaser.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/4/49/Enterprise_fires_on_planet.jpg


What happened to these turrets in the prime universe?

There's aclear difference between firing on a single target and "holy shit there's tons of missiles coming at us that ignore our shields."

In TOS, they used their weapons power for slugging matches. In ST: XI, the Kelvin used its weapons power to fire as many quick, weak shots as possible to make their phasers a bit of a stopgap CIWS.

 

[trevanian]

(M'Sharak: Sorry.)

And those cool screens on the Kelvin that said "COLLISION COURSE ENGAGED" got downgraded in the TOS era.

Or you could just acknowledge that the state of the art in visual effects in 1966-69 was not capable of doing anything like those cool screens on a television budget or even a movie budget, and that such would continue to be the case straight through all of the TOS movies. Visual effects and design are consistent with the time in which the movie or show is produced, and that's all there is to it.

Seriously, the argument that the Kelvin (or the Enterprise NX-01, for that matter) cannot have come before the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 because this or that feature looks "too advanced" ... well, that's a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. It simply does not require an in-universe explanation.

Amen. The way I see it, TNG was always how Rodenberry intended the future to look. He couldn't get that in the sixties on a TV budget. So when they started the new show they explained the differences by saying it was eighty years in the future. By the time Undiscovered Country came out they were using many of the same sets from the series and the differences between the 23rd and 24th century were almost superficial (different uniforms, phasers, etc.).

I think the differences were emphasized when they were using the same base sets ... TOS on TNG sets is seriously incongruous, which is why the extreme retrofitting (stereo mixing controls on the helm) in TUC create even more of a mess, by pushing it almost in an Abrams-like direction of WTF?

And the TNG 80 yrs in the future statement doesn't justify the look TNG started with, since that is largely based on the TMP film set structure, from halls to battle bridge and engineering. I'd say if anything that the differences between TMP and TNG were closer to your 'superficial' remark.

 

[Plecostomus]

I just use my imagination and pretend TOS always looked like Enterprise/JJ-verse. Problem solved!

 

[trevanian]

I just use my imagination and pretend TOS always looked like Enterprise/JJ-verse. Problem solved!

I'm going to have to use my imagination to pretend I never read that post ... yeah, BALANCE OF TERROR's dramatic bridge lighting would SO not benefit from the Universal Fill Light and and flashbulb spots of TheAbramsThing.